Israel

[vantexan]

Oh, my tireless friend. This generation has no historical knowledge. How can you expect them to understand? It was never taught. This is the type the communists coveted the most.

True, if it happened before they were born it has no meaning to them.

 

[UnionStrong]

True, if it happened before they were born it has no meaning to them.

Exactly. And very few have the curiosity to seek out the facts, that is if they are still available.

 

[Next Day Err]

They aren't a foothold to anything, they're a ball and chain

Simply untrue. Israel was a huge asset during the Cold War. They have been in the defense against terrorism. They are an asset in the entire region and one that helps us against Iran. I think you know this. You just hate Israel.

 

[catstalking]

There are a million plus Muslims living in Israel who aren't enslaved. They choose to live in peace.

What does this have to do with American foreign interests?

History isn't your strong suit.

It's my degree but okay

The Ottoman Turks dominated southeastern Europe for 500 years. Were finally driven out in the early 1900's.

The Ottoman Turks were NOT the Arabs, might as well equate the US and Russia to be the same thing because we're all Christian

Again, Muslims pushed Christians out of Lebanon.

Yeah civil war tends to break down into ethnic and religious lines or whatever else works, nothing new since Thucydides

Israel faces a constant threat from hardline Muslims who believe those who don't adhere to Islam have no right to be in positions of power over Muslims.

I bet, they should make peace and learn to cooperate; if they can hold their ground like they have before, then best of luck to them

They should also not get one ing penny from us, nor anyone else

 

[catstalking]

Simply untrue. Israel was a huge asset during the Cold War.

Asset to do what? There was no real threat of Soviet dominance there, the Arab countries bought weapons from the Soviets because we wouldn't sell to them (because of Israel btw)

I mean come on man think about what you're saying, the atheist USSR was going to sweep through the apparently rabid Muslim countries, to go where exactly?

They have been in the defense against terrorism.

Terrorism they provoked

They are an asset in the entire region and one that helps us against Iran.

We don't need help against Iran, they're un-invadable and can't invade anyone else for how incompetent they are, what's there to help?

I think you know this. You just hate Israel.

No, I admire Israel in some ways, they're a hyper nationalist country that isn't afraid to push out ethnic groups they don't want to mix with

I wish we were more like them

But our friend and ally? Lol no, we are being suckered HARD

 

[catstalking]

Oh, my tireless friend. This generation has no historical knowledge. How can you expect them to understand? It was never taught. This is the type the communists coveted the most.

My degree is in history, my thesis was written on the 6 Day War, Im obsessed with history on a level you would cringe at

You support Israel because you see people you don't like support Palestine, and think "the enemy of my enemy is my friend"

We are not the same

 

[Next Day Err]

Asset to do what? There was no real threat of Soviet dominance there, the Arab countries bought weapons from the Soviets because we wouldn't sell to them (because of Israel btw)

I mean come on man think about what you're saying, the atheist USSR was going to sweep through the apparently rabid Muslim countries, to go where exactly?


Terrorism they provoked

We don't need help against Iran, they're un-invadable and can't invade anyone else for how incompetent they are, what's there to help?


No, I admire Israel in some ways, they're a hyper nationalist country that isn't afraid to push out ethnic groups they don't want to mix with

I wish we were more like them

But our friend and ally? Lol no, we are being suckered HARD

Too simple. They’ve been a huge asset to us. Intel gathering and sharing like I’ve previously said during the entirety of the Cold War. They were a counterbalance in the region to prevent the spread of communism and it saved our a lot of headaches for us by protecting our interests. This is all clearly laid out in mainline history.

Those countries all used Soviet weapons against Israel in ‘67 and ‘73, we didn’t sell them weapons because we figured they would use them on our friend. During and after those conflicts Israel shared Soviet military weapons technology and tactics with us to help us stay ahead of them around the world.

What sources are you reading that lead you to believe U.S. national security would benefit from telling Israel to take a hike? Just curious.

 

[Next Day Err]

I see cat is a history guy. Fair enough. Maybe I’m off base. Maybe we should dump Israel and watch them get blasted by Iran and lose any hope to have any say in the control over the Strait of Hormuz or Suez Canal. We can watch Saudi Arabia flail around without our help too while we’re exiting the region and lose the Red Sea entirely. I don’t know. Doesn’t sound wise if we’re playing Risk like I think we all are.

 

[Next Day Err]

At the end of the day we’re in the Middle East with Israel as our ally because we benefit. The whole national security apparatus isn’t being fooled by Israel. We get more out of the relationship than they do although they certainly benefit immensely. We wouldn’t do it if we didn’t. Period.

 

[catstalking]

At the end of the day we’re in the Middle East with Israel as our ally because we benefit. The whole national security apparatus isn’t being fooled by Israel. We get more out of the relationship than they do although they certainly benefit immensely. We wouldn’t do it if we didn’t. Period.

It's not up to them, it's up to the President, his appointees, and most importantly their donors

 

[Next Day Err]

It's not up to them, it's up to the President, his appointees, and most importantly their donors

Which former military brass thinks we should dump Israel? I haven’t done a search but I’m just curious.

 

[catstalking]

Too simple. They’ve been a huge asset to us. Intel gathering and sharing like I’ve previously said during the entirety of the Cold War. They were a counterbalance in the region to prevent the spread of communism

Communism and Islam are 100% incompatible, there was zero chance of it in the ME (except maybe in Israel ironically)

and it saved our a lot of headaches for us by protecting our interests. This is all clearly laid out in mainline history.

Those countries all used Soviet weapons against Israel in ‘67 and ‘73, we didn’t sell them weapons because we figured they would use them on our friend.

They bought Soviet weapons after we refused to sell to them, Egypt in particular wanted US weapons (and money) and only turned to the Soviets out of desperation
The Jordanians were completely armed by us and the UK, same with Lebanon

During and after those conflicts Israel shared Soviet military weapons technology and tactics with us to help us stay ahead of them around the world.

Yes, they also spied on us and passed intel to the Soviets, some ally lol

What sources are you reading that lead you to believe U.S. national security would benefit from telling Israel to take a hike? Just curious.

George Washington, Dwight Eisenhower

 

[catstalking]

Which former military brass thinks we should dump Israel? I haven’t done a search but I’m just curious.

Who knows, who cares, why do you want some politician with a star to tell you how to think?

 

[Next Day Err]

Mossad is a hostile foreign intelligence service that operates against US interests while feeding us the scraps

Well, that is certainly a strong take. Says who? Who should read or listen to about this charge?

Our own intelligence service assessments, retired military officer assessments, etc etc

Who should I listen to that they're "our greatest ally"? Corrupt politicians? No thanks

Which former military brass thinks we should dump Israel? I haven’t done a search but I’m just curious.

Who knows, who cares, why do you want some politician with a star to tell you how to think?

I don't think you're someone to take very seriously on this matter.

 

[vantexan]

What does this have to do with American foreign interests?


It's my degree but okay


The Ottoman Turks were NOT the Arabs, might as well equate the US and Russia to be the same thing because we're all Christian


Yeah civil war tends to break down into ethnic and religious lines or whatever else works, nothing new since Thucydides


I bet, they should make peace and learn to cooperate; if they can hold their ground like they have before, then best of luck to them

They should also not get one ing penny from us, nor anyone else

You made a point to ridicule the Muslims conquering lands a 1000 years ago. So I pointed out that it was much more recent.

The Turks aren't Arabs for sure. Neither are the Iranians. Yet it's the Iranians who are supporting the various Arab factions in its desire to destroy Israel. I would think your degree would have given you a better grasp of the history of the region.

Again, it's our policy because a significant part of our population supports Israel. Not only Jews but also Evangelical Christians.

But beyond all that you seethe with a burning hatred for Jews. You've made it clear that most problems with our country are due.to the Jews. It's the need for a scapegoat to divert attention from a group's own failings that causes this. The Jews are an easy target, have been for millennia. Doubtful you'll ever see it that way though.

 

[UnionStrong]

You made a point to ridicule the Muslims conquering lands a 1000 years ago. So I pointed out that it was much more recent.

The Turks aren't Arabs for sure. Neither are the Iranians. Yet it's the Iranians who are supporting the various Arab factions in its desire to destroy Israel. I would think your degree would have given you a better grasp of the history of the region.

Again, it's our policy because a significant part of our population supports Israel. Not only Jews but also Evangelical Christians.

But beyond all that you seethe with a burning hatred for Jews. You've made it clear that most problems with our country are due.to the Jews. It's the need for a scapegoat to divert attention from a group's own failings that causes this. The Jews are an easy target, have been for millennia. Doubtful you'll ever see it that way though.

He doesn’t know the difference between Persians or Arabs. Nevermind that Islam is only about 600 years old, whereas Judaism is 3000 years old and Christianity is 2000 years old respectively.

 

[vantexan]

He doesn’t know the difference between Persians or Arabs. Nevermind that Islam is only about 600 years old, whereas Judaism is 3000 years old and Christianity is 2000 years old respectively.

You mean it was started in the year 610.

 

[UnionStrong]

You mean it was started in the year 610.

Yes. Point being, it’s relatively new. My bad.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

 

[catstalking]

I don't think you're someone to take very seriously on this matter.

Those are older assessments I thought you meant someone recent (past 10 years)

The military consensus with Israel at the officer level is pretty strong, but the officer level is also wildly different now than it was during the cold war