Leavenworth 10 Freedom Rally

[The Other Side]

What I find the most insulting about this thread is the description contained in the link.. This has to be the most deceptive description of events related to the 10 military persons held in Leavenworth.

"""Our mission is to wholly support and work toward the release of The Leavenworth 10, a group of soldiers/Marines incarcerated at Ft. Leavenworth for killing members of Al-Qaeda or Iraqi insurgents. These decorated and committed soldiers/Marines who honorably served their country—achieving a significant number of combat medals over multiple deployments—are now serving sentences ranging between 10 and 40 years. They and their families have fallen victim to the untenable Rules of Engagement, demoralizing “Catch and Release” policies, and climate of political correctness that govern our troops’ actions while trying to survive a combat zone.
While these soldiers/Marines have been judged very harshly by the military, our military leadership is currently releasing imprisoned enemy combatants back to the battlefield. We request the same mercy for these troops, many of whom have been denied clemency time and again. The Leavenworth 10 do not pose any threat and deserve to be returned to their families.
Please take the time to read their stories, and if you believe they should not be forgotten and left behind, then join us September 4, 2010 for a Freedom Ride to bring awareness to their cases and most importantly let these soldiers/Marines know that we wholly and completely support each of them.""""


This misleading piece of garbage totally disparages the military's system of jurisprudence. These men PLED guilty, they werent railroaded.

All the facts are confused with non relevant issues intended to confuse the reader.

The fact that this piece is written in this way is insulting to all americans who believe in truth, integrity and freedom.

NON of these men deserve to be release or have their cases commuted.

These men are confessed killers and or rapists. Case Closed.

Anyone who would support these types of criminals has a real problem with holding someone accountable for their actions.

Peace.

 

[trickpony1]

Tooner-
As soon as I get the specifics about the 2012 Leavenworth 10 Freedom Rally I will PM or email you.
I would post the specs on this forum but I'm sure someone would find something wrong with it.

 

[toonertoo]

Tooner-
As soon as I get the specifics about the 2012 Leavenworth 10 Freedom Rally I will PM or email you.
I would post the specs on this forum but I'm sure someone would find something wrong with it.

Thanks I would appreciate that, and Im used to the other, LOL.

 

[The Other Side]

Tooner-
As soon as I get the specifics about the 2012 Leavenworth 10 Freedom Rally I will PM or email you.
I would post the specs on this forum but I'm sure someone would find something wrong with it.

You can count on it. Nazi sympathizers had the same belief in innocense during the nuremburg trials.

Peace.

 

[trickpony1]

Post #41:
TOS wrote........."These men PLED guilty....."

These men PLED guilty for the same reason your co-workers accept the:
"reinstatement with time served and no back pay" decision.

If this concept is too obtuse for you to understand, let me know and I will explain it to you.

You aren't in Kansas anymore.

 

[bbsam]

They had bad lawyers?

 

[The Other Side]

Post #41:
TOS wrote........."These men PLED guilty....."

These men PLED guilty for the same reason your co-workers accept the:
"reinstatement with time served and no back pay" decision.

If this concept is too obtuse for you to understand, let me know and I will explain it to you.

You aren't in Kansas anymore.

TRICK,

lets not turn into a "ONE TRICK PONY" like in a 2 dollar carnival. These men pled guilty to the crimes when presented with all the evidence and the likelyhood of the DEATH PENALTY. BY accepting guilt, they AVOIDED being sentenced to DEATH.

Comparing it to returning to work without backpay is ridiculous at best. Military jurisprudence would have convicted these men at trial and they know it. They committed horrific crimes, and they deserved to be punished harshly.

I have no problem with any of the soldiers who have completed their terms and were set free. They did there time. I have ZERO respect for anyone who would mis-characterize the crimes involved, the system for handling the crimes and the sentencing of each.

To me, this demonstrates a lack of understanding and moreover a lack of remorse for the actions of our military men overseas. We as a nation have to hold not only the terrorists who attack our country accountable, but our own men and women who would violate our countries policies and proceedures and become "terrorists" themselves in other countries.

We are NO BETTER as a nation if we send "Terrorists" abroad who rape, murder, steal or torture other human beings just because they can. We as a nation, condemned those terrorists who chopped off the head of an american and videotaped it for all the world to see. We sought justice for this crime.

You on the other hand, want to celebrate, honor and praise our own "terrorists" who committed even more serious acts of violence and drape them into the american flag while riding your harley with a couple hundred other idiots who lack the moral compass of decency.

What anyone should be celebrating is that our country held our own people accountable and they were brought to court, either tried or pleaded guilty to their actions and that their 'lives" were spared because of our system of justice.

If you believe that a soldier(s) who kidnapped a 16 year old Iraqi girl in front of her family in a small village, then took her to the desert where she was repeatedly raped by all soldiers involved, then shot and killed, then gasoline poured over her and set on fire, then her family shot and killed including small children in order to escape being identified deserves to be "brought back without backpay and time served" then let me assure you, you are not an AMERICAN.

You sir would be the one who is OBTUSE.

Peace.

 

[bbsam]

That's not obtuse, that's perversely sick and twisted.

 

[Jones]

That's not obtuse, that's perversely sick and twisted.

To be fair, that case is not one of the "Leavenworth 10". Those guys all got life (they should have been shot) and as far as I know no one is protesting on their behalf.

 

[toonertoo]

Thats what I thought, I had never read that about any of the guys in the leavenworth 10, but I keep reading as I was not aware, my fault. Still searching.

 

[The Other Side]

To be fair, that case is not one of the "Leavenworth 10". Those guys all got life (they should have been shot) and as far as I know no one is protesting on their behalf.

Jones, the Leavenworth 10 were all convicted of premeditiated murder. NONE of these men are innocent or deserve a "break". They are the worst of the worst (SO FAR) as other cases are pending. Leavenworth holds many more military prisoners either awaiting trial or convicted of crimes. Creating an atmosphere where "we" pretend our soldiers are all innocent victims of war and thereby forgiving their crimes is unexcusable.

Here is a list of convictions for our military heroes:
• Staff Sgt. Cardenas J. Alban convicted of killing severely wounded 16-year-old Iraqi during fighting in Baghdad's Sadr City neighborhood. Sentenced to one year's confinement, demoted to private and given bad-conduct discharge.
• Staff Sgt. Johnny Horne Jr. pleaded guilty to unpremeditated murder in same case as Alban. Sentenced to three years in prison, had rank reduced to private and given dishonorable discharge. Horne's prison sentence later reduced to one year.
• Cpl. Dustin Berg convicted and sentenced to 18 months in military prison for shooting death of Iraqi police officer.
• Spc. Rami Dajani convicted of making a false statement following fatal shooting of Iraqi translator. Sentenced to 18 months' confinement and given a reduction in rank and bad conduct discharge.
• Spc. Charley L. Hooser convicted of involuntary manslaughter in same case involving Dajani. Hooser sentenced to three years in prison and given a reduction in rank and bad conduct discharge.
• Capt. Rogelio "Roger" Maynulet convicted of assault with intent to commit voluntary manslaughter in shooting death of wounded Iraqi. Dismissed from armed forces.
• Pvt. Federico Daniel Merida pleaded guilty to killing 17-year-old Iraqi soldier after the two had consensual sex. Sentenced to 25 years in prison, given a reduction in rank and dishonorably discharged.
• Marine Maj. Clarke Paulus convicted of dereliction of duty and maltreatment in case stemming from death of Iraqi prisoner who was dragged out of holding cell by the neck, stripped naked and left outside for seven hours in June 2003. Paulus, who commanded the Marine detention facility Camp Whitehorse in southern Iraq, was dismissed from the service.
• Sgt. 1st Class Tracy Perkins acquitted of involuntary manslaughter in alleged drowning of Iraqi man but convicted of assault for forcing the man and his cousin into Tigris River. Sentenced to six months in prison.
• 1st Lt. Jack Saville pleaded guilty to assault and other crimes in same incident as Perkins. Sentenced to 45 days in military prison.
• Pfc. Edward Richmond convicted of voluntary manslaughter for shooting Iraqi in back of head. Received three years in prison.
• Sgt. Michael P. Williams convicted in court-martial of one count of premeditated murder and one count of unpremeditated murder in deaths of unarmed civilians during operations near Sadr City. Sentenced to life in prison and given a reduction in rank. Sentence later reduced to 25 years.
• Spc. Brent May convicted in court-martial of one count of unpremeditated murder in same incident as Michael Williams. Sentenced to five years in prison.
• Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer convicted of negligent homicide and negligent dereliction of duty in death of Iraqi Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush after an interrogation at a detention camp. Restricted to his home, office and church for two months. Charges against three others dropped.

Not all cases get long sentences in the military. Some were given light sentences or fines as most brought national and global attention to our actions. Only the most serious cases, like the Leavenworth 10 were given harsh sentences due to the magnitudes of the crimes.

Not all our military men fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan were heroes, we just have to accept that and allow military justice to prevail.

Peace.

 

[trickpony1]

TOS-
You need to get your story straight before you spout off.
The Leavenworth Ten are:
First LT Michael Behenna
SGT Evan Carnahan
PFC Corey Clagett
MSG John Hatley
SPC William Hunsaker
SGT Michael Leahy
SFC Joseph Mayo
SGT Michael Williams
SGT Larry Hutchins
SSG Raymond Girouard

Of all the men you named in post #52, I think you got one right. Nice try.

Tooner-
I was gonna keep the specs on this years Leavenworth 10 Rally, probably to be held in September, a secret but I've changed my mind. I will post the specifics so TOS can attend and re-educate us ignorant, un-americans as to how stupid we are.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

One trick, TOS did not state that the names she listed were the Leavenworth 10. She simply gave a partial list of convicted military "heroes". Yes, she could have clarified it better, because that was the first impression I got, but....

 

[trickpony1]

Upstate-
Apparently you, I and TOS don't run with the same group of people. How many conversations have you and TOS had with people who are/were guards at Leavenworth?
The majority of people in Leavenworth are there for stupid stuff like rape, robbery, theft, spousal abuse (no PTSD there), drugs and the ever classic case of the soldier that didn't know it was illegal to hold a brick of weed for his buddy.
The one and only person that TOS got right when she/he/it spewed the wealth of info was Williams. Go back and read her description of Williams case. It involved civilians. Inadvertant casualties will occur in warfare of this nature as the enemy doesn't wear uniforms distinguishing them from civilians. This happened occasionally in Viet nam.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

None of the descriptions she gave could be described as "inadvertent".

It is thankfully obvious to me that you and I don't run in the same circle.

 

[toonertoo]

I dont think you should keep it private, and I am sure that possibly some soldier somewhere could have made a mistake in judgement as will happen when you take 100,000 people and put them under scrutiny. And not even being under the stress that our soldiers are, people make mistakes.
I think that we need to quit focusing on the few mistakes and look at the sites where our soldiers did good. Instead of focusing on the minor % who broke under pressure.
that is why I have been following your posts on this to support our people until the day I see they dont deserve it, and I have not seen that yet. I have also done research on my own, not as much as I should, but it is steady, and I can figure it out.

I know that it is a good thing, to keep this in the open, that way our soldiers are not forgotten, and on this weekend I will keep them all in my prayers.
I dont know that we could make the ride because of my husbands heart condition, but we would like to if possible
Thanks for all your info, and keep it up!

 

[The Other Side]

Upstate-
Apparently you, I and TOS don't run with the same group of people. How many conversations have you and TOS had with people who are/were guards at Leavenworth?
The majority of people in Leavenworth are there for stupid stuff like rape, robbery, theft, spousal abuse (no PTSD there), drugs and the ever classic case of the soldier that didn't know it was illegal to hold a brick of weed for his buddy.
The one and only person that TOS got right when she/he/it spewed the wealth of info was Williams. Go back and read her description of Williams case. It involved civilians. Inadvertant casualties will occur in warfare of this nature as the enemy doesn't wear uniforms distinguishing them from civilians. This happened occasionally in Viet nam.

The specific cases I posted are directly from the list of 10.. I would be more than happy to list all 10 soldiers cases, evidence and their gulity pleas.

Trick, you can support these men if you wish and try to minimise their actions. I find it insulting when anyone takes up a case of a murderer, and in this case, 10 admitted murderers and then makes a circus atmosphere for their release.

You try to continue the deception by describing their actions as accidents.... "ooops, ive killed a civilian, oh my bad, you didnt have a uniform on"..

This is ridiculous.

Warfare has nothing to do with killing innocent people. You let me know if you would like each soldiers case history posted.

Peace.

 

[The Other Side]

TOS-
You need to get your story straight before you spout off.
The Leavenworth Ten are:
First LT Michael Behenna
SGT Evan Carnahan
PFC Corey Clagett
MSG John Hatley
SPC William Hunsaker
SGT Michael Leahy
SFC Joseph Mayo
SGT Michael Williams
SGT Larry Hutchins
SSG Raymond Girouard

Of all the men you named in post #52, I think you got one right. Nice try.

Tooner-
I was gonna keep the specs on this years Leavenworth 10 Rally, probably to be held in September, a secret but I've changed my mind. I will post the specifics so TOS can attend and re-educate us ignorant, un-americans as to how stupid we are.

ONETRICKPONY,

Please demonstrate how Un-ignorant and Un=american "you arent" by defending the actions of the GI's in this story. I would love to hear your intelligence on how warfare and some mistaken identity happened in this case warranting the release or the non punishment of these GI's.

GIs probed in 'premeditated' Iraq rape, killings

BEIJI, Iraq — Investigators believe a group of U.S. soldiers suspected of raping an Iraqi woman, then killing her and three members of her family plotted the attack for nearly a week, a U.S. military official said Saturday.
Up to five soldiers are being investigated in the March killings, the fifth pending case involving alleged slayings of Iraqi civilians by U.S. troops.
The Americans entered the Sunni Arab’s family home, separated three males from the woman, raped her and burned her body using a flammable liquid in a cover-up attempt, a military official close to the investigation said. The three males were also slain.
The soldiers had studied their victims for about a week and the attack was “totally premeditated,” the official said on condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing. The family had just moved into the home in the insurgent-riddled area around Mahmoudiya, 20 miles south of Baghdad.
Criminal investigation
The U.S. military issued a terse statement about the killings Friday, saying only that Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, commander of the 4th Infantry Division, ordered a criminal investigation into the alleged slaying of a family of four in Mahmoudiya.
U.S. officials said they knew of the deaths but thought the victims were killed in sectarian violence. But Mahmoudiya police Capt. Ihsan Abdul-Rahman said Iraqi officials received a report on March 13 alleging that American soldiers had killed the family in the Khasir Abyad area, about 6 miles north of Mahmoudiya.
There were some discrepancies over how many soldiers were being investigated. The U.S. military official said it was at least four. Two other U.S. officials said Friday that five were under investigation but one already had been discharged for unspecified charges unrelated to the killings and was believed to be in the United States.

The four still in the Army have had their weapons taken away and were confined to a U.S. base near Mahmoudiya, officials said. If convicted of premeditated murder, the soldiers could receive a death sentence under U.S. military law.
The suspects were from the 502nd Infantry Regiment and belonged to the same platoon as two soldiers kidnapped and killed south of Baghdad this month, another official close to the investigation said Friday. The soldiers’ mutilated bodies were found June 19, three days after they were abducted by insurgents near Youssifiyah southwest of Baghdad.

Guilt spurs revelation
The military has said one and possibly both of the slain soldiers were tortured and beheaded. The official said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one member of the platoon to reveal the rape-slaying on June 22.

One soldier was arrested after admitting his role in the alleged attack on the family, the official said on condition of anonymity because the case was under way. The official said the rape and killings appeared to have been a “crime of opportunity,” noting that the soldiers had not been attacked by insurgents but had noticed the woman on previous patrols.
One of the family members they allegedly killed was a child, said a senior army official who also requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. The senior official said the alleged incident was first revealed by a soldier during a routine counseling-type session. The official said that soldier did not witness the incident but heard about it.
A second soldier, who also was not involved, said he overhead soldiers conspiring to commit the crimes and then later saw bloodstains on their clothes, the official said.
The allegations of rape could generate a particularly strong backlash in Iraq, a conservative, strongly religious society in which many women will not even shake hands with men who are not close relatives.


Other convictions, pending cases
The case is among the most serious against U.S. soldiers allegedly involved in the deaths of Iraqi civilians. At least 14 U.S. troops have been convicted.
Last week, seven Marines and one Navy medic were charged with premeditated murder in the shooting death of an Iraqi man near Fallujah west of Baghdad.
U.S. officials are also investigating allegations that U.S. Marines killed two dozen unarmed Iraqi civilians Nov. 19 in the western town of Haditha in a revenge attack after a fellow Marine died in a roadside bombing.
Other cases involve the deaths of three male detainees in Salahuddin province in May, the shooting death of an unarmed Iraqi man near Ramadi in February and the death of an Iraqi soldier after an interrogation at a detention camp in Qaim in 2003.

 

[The Other Side]

I dont think you should keep it private, and I am sure that possibly some soldier somewhere could have made a mistake in judgement as will happen when you take 100,000 people and put them under scrutiny. And not even being under the stress that our soldiers are, people make mistakes.
I think that we need to quit focusing on the few mistakes and look at the sites where our soldiers did good. Instead of focusing on the minor % who broke under pressure.
that is why I have been following your posts on this to support our people until the day I see they dont deserve it, and I have not seen that yet. I have also done research on my own, not as much as I should, but it is steady, and I can figure it out.

I know that it is a good thing, to keep this in the open, that way our soldiers are not forgotten, and on this weekend I will keep them all in my prayers.
I dont know that we could make the ride because of my husbands heart condition, but we would like to if possible
Thanks for all your info, and keep it up!

TOONER,

Do you believe that these soldiers "time to be believed" came when they pleaded guilty of PREMEDITATED murder and accepted their sentence for their actions?? THe word PREMEDITATION means that they PLANNED the murders, not made a mistake, not had a misjudgement, not some unfortunate happenstance and not some act of warfare fatigue.

These soldiers lost their respect as soldiers the moment they pled gulity. That guilty plea to a premeditated charge speaks volumes.

Trying to turn them into heroes to be honored is an insult to all the deceased soldiers who gave their lives in battle in a honorable way. Memorial day is for the rememberance of the dead and not the current soldiers or those convicted killers sitting in a maximum security prison.

We cannot as nation, look the other way when our soldiers plot, plan and execute an action that is intended to take the lives of innocent persons.

Trick may try to mislead you and mis state the circumstances in order to drum up support, but the facts speak for themselves.

The 10 at leavenworth and the other almost 200 soldiers either pleading guilty or waiting for trial must serve whatever sentence they are handed to the fullest.

Peace.

 

[Jones]

ONETRICKPONY,

Please demonstrate how Un-ignorant and Un=american "you arent" by defending the actions of the GI's in this story. I would love to hear your intelligence on how warfare and some mistaken identity happened in this case warranting the release or the non punishment of these GI's.

GIs probed in 'premeditated' Iraq rape, killings

BEIJI, Iraq — Investigators believe a group of U.S. soldiers suspected of raping an Iraqi woman, then killing her and three members of her family plotted the attack for nearly a week, a U.S. military official said Saturday.
Up to five soldiers are being investigated in the March killings, the fifth pending case involving alleged slayings of Iraqi civilians by U.S. troops.
The Americans entered the Sunni Arab’s family home, separated three males from the woman, raped her and burned her body using a flammable liquid in a cover-up attempt, a military official close to the investigation said. The three males were also slain.
The soldiers had studied their victims for about a week and the attack was “totally premeditated,” the official said on condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing. The family had just moved into the home in the insurgent-riddled area around Mahmoudiya, 20 miles south of Baghdad.
Criminal investigation
The U.S. military issued a terse statement about the killings Friday, saying only that Maj. Gen. James D. Thurman, commander of the 4th Infantry Division, ordered a criminal investigation into the alleged slaying of a family of four in Mahmoudiya.
U.S. officials said they knew of the deaths but thought the victims were killed in sectarian violence. But Mahmoudiya police Capt. Ihsan Abdul-Rahman said Iraqi officials received a report on March 13 alleging that American soldiers had killed the family in the Khasir Abyad area, about 6 miles north of Mahmoudiya.
There were some discrepancies over how many soldiers were being investigated. The U.S. military official said it was at least four. Two other U.S. officials said Friday that five were under investigation but one already had been discharged for unspecified charges unrelated to the killings and was believed to be in the United States.

The four still in the Army have had their weapons taken away and were confined to a U.S. base near Mahmoudiya, officials said. If convicted of premeditated murder, the soldiers could receive a death sentence under U.S. military law.
The suspects were from the 502nd Infantry Regiment and belonged to the same platoon as two soldiers kidnapped and killed south of Baghdad this month, another official close to the investigation said Friday. The soldiers’ mutilated bodies were found June 19, three days after they were abducted by insurgents near Youssifiyah southwest of Baghdad.

Guilt spurs revelation
The military has said one and possibly both of the slain soldiers were tortured and beheaded. The official said the mutilation of the slain soldiers stirred feelings of guilt and led at least one member of the platoon to reveal the rape-slaying on June 22.


One soldier was arrested after admitting his role in the alleged attack on the family, the official said on condition of anonymity because the case was under way. The official said the rape and killings appeared to have been a “crime of opportunity,” noting that the soldiers had not been attacked by insurgents but had noticed the woman on previous patrols.
One of the family members they allegedly killed was a child, said a senior army official who also requested anonymity because the investigation is ongoing. The senior official said the alleged incident was first revealed by a soldier during a routine counseling-type session. The official said that soldier did not witness the incident but heard about it.
A second soldier, who also was not involved, said he overhead soldiers conspiring to commit the crimes and then later saw bloodstains on their clothes, the official said.
The allegations of rape could generate a particularly strong backlash in Iraq, a conservative, strongly religious society in which many women will not even shake hands with men who are not close relatives.


Other convictions, pending cases
The case is among the most serious against U.S. soldiers allegedly involved in the deaths of Iraqi civilians. At least 14 U.S. troops have been convicted.
Last week, seven Marines and one Navy medic were charged with premeditated murder in the shooting death of an Iraqi man near Fallujah west of Baghdad.
U.S. officials are also investigating allegations that U.S. Marines killed two dozen unarmed Iraqi civilians Nov. 19 in the western town of Haditha in a revenge attack after a fellow Marine died in a roadside bombing.
Other cases involve the deaths of three male detainees in Salahuddin province in May, the shooting death of an unarmed Iraqi man near Ramadi in February and the death of an Iraqi soldier after an interrogation at a detention camp in Qaim in 2003.

TOS, I'm not here to defend the Leavenworth10, I've read up on those cases and have my own opinions, but the case you are referring to above is not one of them. All those guys were rightfully convicted and no one is protesting about it.