Made to clock out a finish job
- Thread starter celsiana
- Start date
tieguy
Banned
absolutely. I think its a quite a stretch to go from side deals to refusing to see that their people are paid properly.
But I am intriqued by the prospect of you being a fixer. Are you going to take the plunge from sideline complainer to fixer?
Gonna show us how to run the BA business without ever working one single side deal?
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
Tieguy-
I'm sure you have a police department in your hometown. You pay these policemen through your property taxes and retail sales tax. Do you go down to the station once a month and have coffree and doughnuts with the police to insure they are doing their jobs? Probably not. You depend on them to do their jobs.
I pay union dues every week. I should be able to depend on my union to do it's job.
I have to admit that something is better then nothing and right now the union we have is what we got.
I guess the big question is: who do I trust the least.....the company or the union?
As far as me being a fixer.......I got a better chance of winning the lottery.
I'm sure you have a police department in your hometown. You pay these policemen through your property taxes and retail sales tax. Do you go down to the station once a month and have coffree and doughnuts with the police to insure they are doing their jobs? Probably not. You depend on them to do their jobs.
I pay union dues every week. I should be able to depend on my union to do it's job.
I have to admit that something is better then nothing and right now the union we have is what we got.
I guess the big question is: who do I trust the least.....the company or the union?
As far as me being a fixer.......I got a better chance of winning the lottery.
dannyboy
From the promised LAND
Trick, If I may, lets change some of the terminology of the thread.
Fixer is not really what it would be called.
Lets take an example that has happened in the past.
You are the BA. You go to hearings at the panel and you get a real education on many different items.
At this hearing you have 5 drivers discharged on a variety of reasons, all valid. They have had the local hearings, and today is the day where it all comes together. You know, and the company knows that they have the goods on the drivers, each one is a goner.
There is also a 6th driver, one who has been to the panel many time on many different issues, most of them discharges. And this time it is no different. They pretty much have the goods on him too, but the case is not as clear cut as the others. And they are very tired of dealing with him. He is also responsible for a morale problem with the other drivers in his center. They want him gone this time around. No more promises, no more chances.
Now, the company approaches the union with a deal. The five get to keep their jobs, each will get a suspension without pay, but will return to their jobs without loss of seniority.
In return, the 6th driver has to be let go. Only one union guy has to agree to him being let go, the rest of you can vote to keep him on. But one of you must vote to fire him. Other wise no deal.
Now the problem. What to do. Is it better to take the chances on the other 5, or settle for a sure thing. Chances are at least 2 or 3 or possibly all 6 will not have a job after the hearing. But if you negotiate with UPS, you can preserve at least 5 of the jobs for sure.
This is the reality. As a BA you will have the lives of your buddies in your hands. There will be times you will have to cut a deal to preserve the job. Ive had to. Ive agreed to a 6 month suspension just to keep the drivers job. Yeah, he could have had a hearing, but when you walk off the job, what are your real options. In this particular case, I was even roasted for not filing a grievance. My response was on what grounds. UPS did not fire the guy, the guy quit. And now he wants his job back. So under what article do I file and what the hell did UPS do wrong?
After the fact, we were told that had he tried in any other way to get his job back, by filing etc, they would never have even given it a second thought, he would have been gone. And you know what, even if the panel had been deadlocked, the arbitrator would have shown him the door.
But getting back to the 6 drivers.....what would you do? You've got a level head. Want 5 for sure wins and one loss, or take your chances that you might have 6 losses for the day? You know you will get at least two losses. What are you gonna do.
Its not that you are dishonest, or crooked. Its life. And with the job comes responsibility to the majority of your union members.
While not a popular subject, if they were honest they would tell you. Unionism is not about the individual good, but the greater good of the group. And that includes groups such as full time and part time. Last contract, the full time gave items so that the part time could get into full time jobs. All the focus was on the creation of full time positions, not any increases in the part time wage. All of it sounded good on paper for Hoffa, but as a reality, not much was ever won.
I hope this gives you some insight as to what Tie was referring to. Not that he was alluding that you were dishonest, just maybe naive?
d
Fixer is not really what it would be called.
Lets take an example that has happened in the past.
You are the BA. You go to hearings at the panel and you get a real education on many different items.
At this hearing you have 5 drivers discharged on a variety of reasons, all valid. They have had the local hearings, and today is the day where it all comes together. You know, and the company knows that they have the goods on the drivers, each one is a goner.
There is also a 6th driver, one who has been to the panel many time on many different issues, most of them discharges. And this time it is no different. They pretty much have the goods on him too, but the case is not as clear cut as the others. And they are very tired of dealing with him. He is also responsible for a morale problem with the other drivers in his center. They want him gone this time around. No more promises, no more chances.
Now, the company approaches the union with a deal. The five get to keep their jobs, each will get a suspension without pay, but will return to their jobs without loss of seniority.
In return, the 6th driver has to be let go. Only one union guy has to agree to him being let go, the rest of you can vote to keep him on. But one of you must vote to fire him. Other wise no deal.
Now the problem. What to do. Is it better to take the chances on the other 5, or settle for a sure thing. Chances are at least 2 or 3 or possibly all 6 will not have a job after the hearing. But if you negotiate with UPS, you can preserve at least 5 of the jobs for sure.
This is the reality. As a BA you will have the lives of your buddies in your hands. There will be times you will have to cut a deal to preserve the job. Ive had to. Ive agreed to a 6 month suspension just to keep the drivers job. Yeah, he could have had a hearing, but when you walk off the job, what are your real options. In this particular case, I was even roasted for not filing a grievance. My response was on what grounds. UPS did not fire the guy, the guy quit. And now he wants his job back. So under what article do I file and what the hell did UPS do wrong?
After the fact, we were told that had he tried in any other way to get his job back, by filing etc, they would never have even given it a second thought, he would have been gone. And you know what, even if the panel had been deadlocked, the arbitrator would have shown him the door.
But getting back to the 6 drivers.....what would you do? You've got a level head. Want 5 for sure wins and one loss, or take your chances that you might have 6 losses for the day? You know you will get at least two losses. What are you gonna do.
Its not that you are dishonest, or crooked. Its life. And with the job comes responsibility to the majority of your union members.
While not a popular subject, if they were honest they would tell you. Unionism is not about the individual good, but the greater good of the group. And that includes groups such as full time and part time. Last contract, the full time gave items so that the part time could get into full time jobs. All the focus was on the creation of full time positions, not any increases in the part time wage. All of it sounded good on paper for Hoffa, but as a reality, not much was ever won.
I hope this gives you some insight as to what Tie was referring to. Not that he was alluding that you were dishonest, just maybe naive?
d
tieguy
Banned
Good example and one that many BA's have seen from time to time.
And yes this is the type of side deal I was referring to.
The other point being this threads issue which I consider cut and dried contract language versus grey area. There are scenarios a BA faces where there is no clear cut language supporting or denying the issue at hand. On those the BA and labor manager will have to come to some kind of agreement on how the issue is to be handled or take it to a panel. If they settle at the local level then the settlement becomes a "side deal".
I have never seen or heard of a BA giving away something as cut and dried as overtime pay. That would be an indefensible position for any BA to take and one that could subject him to an NLRB case.
And yes this is the type of side deal I was referring to.
The other point being this threads issue which I consider cut and dried contract language versus grey area. There are scenarios a BA faces where there is no clear cut language supporting or denying the issue at hand. On those the BA and labor manager will have to come to some kind of agreement on how the issue is to be handled or take it to a panel. If they settle at the local level then the settlement becomes a "side deal".
I have never seen or heard of a BA giving away something as cut and dried as overtime pay. That would be an indefensible position for any BA to take and one that could subject him to an NLRB case.
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
danny-
I don't believe Tieguy thinks I'm dishonest or naive.
I hope he knows better than that.
I don't believe Tieguy thinks I'm dishonest or naive.
I hope he knows better than that.
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
luv ya, Tie!
I do have to admit it's fun doing mental combat with someone of your caliber.
I do have to admit it's fun doing mental combat with someone of your caliber.
CTOTH
Not retired, just tired
A guy I work with took the picture at his brother's house and emailed it to me. Apparently for some reason the fellow has raised a couple of deer as house pets and one of them has shown 'affection' for his chocolate lab from time to time.WARNING! WARNING! OFF-TOPIC-----------
CTOTH,
Man that pic you have is bad!
Where are you going on your computer to find something like that? You know our insurance does cover some mental conditions if you really need such help!
It's sick but it is funny!
I've been able to enjoy both the picture and telling the story for about a year now. I laugh each and every time.
tieguy
Banned
Dude , cut it out I'm trying to keep up my image as a fire breathing , employee hating manager.
Starting to feel like the chocolate lab.
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
I'm trying to figure out what he's gonna do when the deer reach their adult size, unless he owns alot of fenced in land somewhere.
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