My poor pop would be rolling in his grave!

[twoweeled]

I always try to post with some humor, and often, with some truth.

Like Castor oil and honey! Thank you Mr Nice Man.

 

[Catatonic]

Like Castor oil and honey! Thank you Mr Nice Man.

I do like Mr Nice!

 

[MC4YOU2]

Of course, ORION is for Future Drivers.

It's still wasting time and money, the very things it was not supposed to do. More than the new screen watchers, no doubt.

Make sure you get the bugs out for your replacement.

I never had the pleasure, as I left prior to implementation. I'm sure they're still trying to fit a smaller ass into your old desk chair.
.
.
.
.
.

 

[MC4YOU2]

Of course, ORION is for Future Drivers.

Make sure you get the bugs out for your replacement.
.
.
.
.
.

It's still wasting time and money, the very things it was supposed to not do. More even than the thousands of new screen watchers, no doubt.

I never had the pleasure of debugging Orion, as I left prior to implementation, but after the planning and promotional tour from our region mgr.

I'll bet they're still trying to fit a smaller ass into your old desk chair. I'm sure you left an impression.

 

[Catatonic]

It's still wasting time and money, the very things it was supposed to not do. More even than the thousands of new screen watchers, no doubt.

I never had the pleasure of debugging Orion, as I left prior to implementation, but after the planning and promotional tour from our region mgr.

I'll bet they're still trying to fit a smaller ass into your old desk chair. I'm sure you left an impression.

Yep, they had a big ass to fill when I retired.

 

[twoweeled]

It's still wasting time and money, the very things it was supposed to not do. More even than the thousands of new screen watchers, no doubt.

I never had the pleasure of debugging Orion, as I left prior to implementation, but after the planning and promotional tour from our region mgr.

I'll bet they're still trying to fit a smaller ass into your old desk chair. I'm sure you left an impression.

I'm thinking even if they lose some money now, they are looking at being able to replace package in case of a strike again. You and I both know, the company does absolutely nothing (exclusively) for the ease or convenience of the employee. If the company is doing or changing something. It is focused purely on what is good for the company - which contrary to the belief of some, is not synonymous for the good of the employee. I think the company might still have a difficult time in a strike, but the company will probably feel confident enough to push it further than last time. Quite a bit further than last time, I think.
Plus the whole GPS thing is going to give additional resources to discharge present drivers. I think the company is holding back right now, but will probably show itself later. There were small changes in wording in the last contract that may result in bad things happening to drivers. Bunch of guesses there, and as Monkey Butt mentioned; I do guess wrong occasionally. A bit more than occasionally!!

 

[trickpony1]

It opened a few eyes that resulted in UPS going public.

Why did the strike cause UPS to go public?

 

[twoweeled]

Why did the strike cause UPS to go public?

I'm waiting for that answer myself. I'm curious.

 

[Catatonic]

Why did the strike cause UPS to go public?

I'm waiting for that answer myself. I'm curious.

The UPS Board had been looking at going public since as early as 1992 but the management committee was adamantly against it because it would destroy the culture of UPS and change the relationship between Management and other employees.
These same people felt the drivers had betrayed UPS by striking and changed their mind.
At the time, I agreed ... I thought it was the stupidest thing the Teamsters had ever done.
Unfortunately for me, UPS was able to implement the "publicly owned" policies on management and other non-union employees more easily than Teamsters.
UPS is figuring it out as times goes on.
UPS Teamsters royally screwed themselves in that strike ... ask the retirees.
I feel most sorry for the Teamsters that retired prior to 1997 ... they did not bring this on themselves.

 

[trickpony1]

These same people felt the drivers had betrayed UPS by striking and changed their mind.

When has management ever cared what the drivers thought or did?

Management screwed themselves by going public as far as I'm concerned. Before going public, stock split like rabbits and management pretty much controlled the price. Multimillionaire managers were getting "hypo" loans and becoming even richer. Not true now.

Going public benefited two groups of people:
1) the descendants of the founding fathers who were already filthy rich and;
2) the multimillionaire managers who became even richer.

The union employee buying $20 of stock per paycheck isn't really gaining anything.

Don't blame the drivers.

 

[Catatonic]

A) When has management ever cared what the drivers thought or did?

B) Management screwed themselves by going public as far as I'm concerned.
C) Before going public, stock split like rabbits and management pretty much controlled the price.
D) Multimillionaire managers were getting "hypo" loans and becoming even richer. Not true now.

E) Going public benefited two groups of people:
1) the descendants of the founding fathers who were already filthy rich and;
2) the multimillionaire managers who became even richer.

friend) The union employee buying $20 of stock per paycheck isn't really gaining anything.

G) Don't blame the drivers.

A) That always depends on the local management with which an individual interacts.
---My management reacted very favorably to my suggestion and took care of me even though I backed over a low well house.

B) Management ( as far as you can perceive ) did not vote to go public. That was the Board of Directors mostly.

C) Yep, loved those splits.
The Board controlled the price and kept it suppressed.

D) Yep - lucky enough to have been willing to take the risk.

E) 1) Yep and even more the Charitable Foundations
---2) Yep, unfortunately I wasn't one of those ... maybe 10 years too young.
------I did quite well though.

friend) Anybody buying $20 per paycheck is not going to get rich regardless of which stock they bought.
---I was buying thousands of dollars of stock with each paycheck ... I wish I had spent more.

G) Get real, Drivers get blamed for everything!

 

[MC4YOU2]

I believe UPS is in a better position insofar as a possible 2018 strike would be concerned. They would be able to continue to run the business to a degree, but it would be a rougher ride than a 14 hour day in the jump seat on gravel roads.

Trained drivers working today can't satisfy their demands or reports and service the customers at the same time as a whole. Add in safety and you have a potentially catastrophic mix trying to staff from straight off the street and with limited time to get up to speed.

If the staffing is done in the same way that pre-loaders are hired on, and with the same turnover rate, watch out.

Middle mgmt is now convinced that the proper way to train is to demonstrate for a short period of time, then walk away and let them sink or swim. That's fine when you have PC drivers who can come in later and get the job done, but not new drivers who will struggle through everything and accomplish far less. Even if they hired double the drivers, where would the extra PC's come from? Ryder? Oh man.

Mgmt would be so busy training and putting out fires they will not have time to drive routes themselves to any great extent either.

Obviously, UPS would charge forward and damn the torpedoes anyway as usual though.

The whole culture did change, and change radically for the worse. I remember seeing Kent (Oz) Nelson on a PBS interview pre 1997. When asked what changes he saw for the future, he answered that UPS would likely begin phasing out shipping hazmats, as the risk vs rewards were not worth it for the workers, or as a company.

After the strike, we started seeing all the designated responders with full aprons, gloves, goggles that had to be recertified yearly. So much for abating risk for the workers.

 

[Catatonic]

I believe UPS is in a better position insofar as a possible 2018 strike would be concerned. They would be able to continue to run the business to a degree, but it would be a rougher ride than a 14 hour day in the jump seat on gravel roads.

Obviously, UPS would charge forward and damn the torpedoes anyway as usual though.

The whole culture did change, and change radically for the worse. I remember seeing Kent (Oz) Nelson on a PBS interview pre 1997. When asked what changes he saw for the future, he answered that UPS would likely begin phasing out shipping hazmats, as the risk vs rewards were not worth it for the workers, or as a company.

After the strike, we started seeing all the designated responders with full aprons, gloves, goggles that had to be recertified yearly. So much for abating risk for the workers.

We were so naive back then ... but we adapted.

 

[twoweeled]

The UPS Board had been looking at going public since as early as 1992 but the management committee was adamantly against it because it would destroy the culture of UPS and change the relationship between Management and other employees.
These same people felt the drivers had betrayed UPS by striking and changed their mind.
At the time, I agreed ... I thought it was the stupidest thing the Teamsters had ever done.
Unfortunately for me, UPS was able to implement the "publicly owned" policies on management and other non-union employees more easily than Teamsters.
UPS is figuring it out as times goes on.
UPS Teamsters royally screwed themselves in that strike ... ask the retirees.
I feel most sorry for the Teamsters that retired prior to 1997 ... they did not bring this on themselves.

RE UPS board. I'm assuming you had intimate knowledge of this, and this isn't an assumption on your part. But it does make sense. I also recall the feeling of a lot of management leaving shortly have going public. My assumption was, it was part of the plan to provide themselves with a nice bump in net worth, due to the rise in stock price. Could've been a coinki dinki too?
The management Committee was 100% correct, in that it did destroy the UPS culture.
Management feeling betrayed? Maybe. There have always been some management who felt we were over compensated and hated it. There were managers who seemed to have not cared less either way. But I'll defer to you on that one. I really don't know.
Personally, I think the strike was needed and a success. I'm glad it happened even in retrospect. I am a retiree, but not sure what you refer too (Teamsters screwed themselves). Retiree medical coverage now is terrible, but not in 97.
Retiree payments could've/should've been hire, but due to the company subsidizing other entities it shouldn't have been subsidizing, IT ISN'T AS GOOD AS IT SHOULD BE? I'll agree on that one?
Not sure what you referred too.

 

[twoweeled]

I believe UPS is in a better position insofar as a possible 2018 strike would be concerned. They would be able to continue to run the business to a degree, but it would be a rougher ride than a 14 hour day in the jump seat on gravel roads.

Trained drivers working today can't satisfy their demands or reports and service the customers at the same time as a whole. Add in safety and you have a potentially catastrophic mix trying to staff from straight off the street and with limited time to get up to speed.

If the staffing is done in the same way that pre-loaders are hired on, and with the same turnover rate, watch out.

Middle mgmt is now convinced that the proper way to train is to demonstrate for a short period of time, then walk away and let them sink or swim. That's fine when you have PC drivers who can come in later and get the job done, but not new drivers who will struggle through everything and accomplish far less. Even if they hired double the drivers, where would the extra PC's come from? Ryder? Oh man.

Mgmt would be so busy training and putting out fires they will not have time to drive routes themselves to any great extent either.

Obviously, UPS would charge forward and damn the torpedoes anyway as usual though.

The whole culture did change, and change radically for the worse. I remember seeing Kent (Oz) Nelson on a PBS interview pre 1997. When asked what changes he saw for the future, he answered that UPS would likely begin phasing out shipping hazmats, as the risk vs rewards were not worth it for the workers, or as a company.

After the strike, we started seeing all the designated responders with full aprons, gloves, goggles that had to be recertified yearly. So much for abating risk for the workers.

I'm in agreement with you. Although as Monkey Butt and I talked about earlier - I think it'll be a lot easier now for the company to recover. Like you, I see they would literally have to hire at least 2 to 1 to replace package drivers. They could rent twice as many rentals, but that alone will make already slow drivers, much slower!! You can't get rolling in rentals. But even if they were willing to rent, rentals - a lot of these buildings can't facilitate twice as many cars. Sure, they'll start putting trailers with rollers everywhere. But that just won't work very well, if at all. It will be a circus. Just don't know for how long.
Service is no longer much of a concern, so that's a small problem now.
But Orion I think really changes things. I've not worked with it, so I'm assuming here. But if it's able to lead drivers around, that is bound to be a big help.
On the other hand. Fedex will be better prepared too! They will also, not make the same mistakes they made the last time. They will pick up business, and not lose as much. They will service better than last strike of 97. Will the company risk that? Probably, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. It will be either strike, or get ready for the screwing of your life!
Oz Nelson? So different than the CEO's we see now. Sad to me.

 

[Catatonic]

RE UPS board. I'm assuming you had intimate knowledge of this, and this isn't an assumption on your part. But it does make sense. I also recall the feeling of a lot of management leaving shortly have going public. My assumption was, it was part of the plan to provide themselves with a nice bump in net worth, due to the rise in stock price. Could've been a coinki dinki too?
The management Committee was 100% correct, in that it did destroy the UPS culture.
Management feeling betrayed? Maybe. There have always been some management who felt we were over compensated and hated it. There were managers who seemed to have not cared less either way. But I'll defer to you on that one. I really don't know.
Personally, I think the strike was needed and a success. I'm glad it happened even in retrospect. I am a retiree, but not sure what you refer too (Teamsters screwed themselves). Retiree medical coverage now is terrible, but not in 97.
Retiree payments could've/should've been hire, but due to the company subsidizing other entities it shouldn't have been subsidizing, IT ISN'T AS GOOD AS IT SHOULD BE? I'll agree on that one?
Not sure what you referred too.

I think most management that feels drivers are overcompensated are actually POed that they don't make more than drivers.
I spent 20 years working with and directing programmers that made twice what I did.
I just got over it!

 

[MC4YOU2]

I'm in agreement with you. Although as Monkey Butt and I talked about earlier - I think it'll be a lot easier now for the company to recover. Like you, I see they would literally have to hire at least 2 to 1 to replace package drivers. They could rent twice as many rentals, but that alone will make already slow drivers, much slower!! You can't get rolling in rentals. But even if they were willing to rent, rentals - a lot of these buildings can't facilitate twice as many cars. Sure, they'll start putting trailers with rollers everywhere. But that just won't work very well, if at all. It will be a circus. Just don't know for how long.
Service is no longer much of a concern, so that's a small problem now.
But Orion I think really changes things. I've not worked with it, so I'm assuming here. But if it's able to lead drivers around, that is bound to be a big help.
On the other hand. Fedex will be better prepared too! They will also, not make the same mistakes they made the last time. They will pick up business, and not lose as much. They will service better than last strike of 97. Will the company risk that? Probably, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. It will be either strike, or get ready for the screwing of your life!
Oz Nelson? So different than the CEO's we see now. Sad to me.

Another point on the question of how good will service actually be, is that last time the customers knew there was a strike and so understood why the service was not happening, maybe very unhappily, but they knew.

With replacements that the customers will view as the exact same thing as a cover driver, they'll expect the same level of attention and dedication. They'll rail on those newbies like rented mules, without holding back. Many of them will not be able to handle it and will bail out asap.

As far as Orion goes neither you or I have actually used it, but as you have gathered from BC, it's really buggy and choppy in some (most?) areas. So far, they're refusing to address the programming issues and simply rely, as usual, on driver area knowledge, dedication and good old lunch skipping to give the shareholders the assurance that everything is just fine.

 

[twoweeled]

Another point on the question of how good will service actually be, is that last time the customers knew there was a strike and so understood why the service was not happening, maybe very unhappily, but they knew.

With replacements that the customers will view as the exact same thing as a cover driver, they'll expect the same level of attention and dedication. They'll rail on those newbies like rented mules, without holding back. Many of them will not be able to handle it and will bail out asap.

As far as Orion goes neither you or I have actually used it, but as you have gathered from BC, it's really buggy and choppy in some (most?) areas. So far, they're refusing to address the programming issues and simply rely, as usual, on driver area knowledge, dedication and good old lunch skipping to give the shareholders the assurance that everything is just fine.

LMAO! Ahhh yes! The infamous production raising method, among methods.
"the good old lunch skipping" method!! Followed by marking an hour for that skipped lunch, to boot! LOL!!

 

[twoweeled]

I think most management that feels drivers are overcompensated are actually POed that they don't make more than drivers.
I spent 20 years working with and directing programmers that made twice what I did.
I just got over it!

I would hope, I would act as you did.

 

[pickup]

I always try to post with some humor, and often, with some truth.

Trying and succeeding are two different things [emoji12].