New 9.5 question. (Hopefully)

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
That's a great sentiment but it does not pan out in the real world. In fact UPS tried it back in the 90's. Paid huge money to a consulting firm who recommended a complete overhaul of the management culture. Stop ordering from the top down, give the drivers more control over their dispatch since they are the experts. Any one remember the "Work Teams". The whole concept was empower the hourlies, reduce management ranks, stop harping production. The consultants assured the company treating the employees better would result in fewer service failures and eventually better production. Neither happened. Service failures increased and production dropped.

It's a nice thought. Unfortunately there are just too many of your brothers and sisters who are more than happy to stick it to the company if given the chance.
Like most other Company driven initiatives, the "Team Concept" was implemented half arse, poorly maintained, with very few in management bought in.

Why would they buy in, to be phased out?
Who could blame them?
Did you ever consider the problem was on your side of that fence on that one?

Much like the ORION system, it's garbage in and garbage out.
 

Bubblehead

My Senior Picture
So you're suggesting a driver should only be given the same ranges every day and if his route comes in with 6hrs of work we should just let him go out with that and pay him the 8 hr guarantee? That does not sound like an efficient business model.
Yes, that's what was being suggested when a driver is dispatched "in the blind".....

......and nothing was suggested that anybody be paid for 8, while working 6.


How is sending a driver out in the blind, with 8+ on paper not throwing good money after bad?
How is that "an efficient business model"?


Maybe instead of plain English, somebody can workup an Excel spreadsheet sheet to help this IE guy understand?
 
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Appvol

Banned
So you're suggesting a driver should only be given the same ranges every day and if his route comes in with 6hrs of work we should just let him go out with that and pay him the 8 hr guarantee? That does not sound like an efficient business model.

That's the problem with this company.Your magical reports that you guys get that are not true.It says you got 8hrs worth of work but it really takes 10.Lets not worry about the fact you got roads that you can't run 60 MPH on.Driveways that you can only do about 5 MPH so you don't rattle your teeth out.IE is the biggest problem with UPS. Center Manager and on car Sups know you need more routes but we can't we can only have this many routes on today.You jokers in IE should have to get out of your office and spend about 6 months at Centers.Ride with every driver 5 days a week for 6 months and IE might get a clue.
 

upschuck

Well-Known Member
Like most other Company driven initiatives, the "Team Concept" was implemented half arse, poorly maintained, with very few in management bought in.

Why would they buy in, to be phased out?
Who could blame them?
Did you ever consider the problem was on your side of that fence on that one?

Much like the ORION system, it's garbage in and garbage out.
It never made it to my building, which means that it was scrapped pretty quickly after it started. My building didn't like the fact of hourly "managing" another hourly.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Like most other Company driven initiatives, the "Team Concept" was implemented half arse, poorly maintained, with very few in management bought in.

Why would they buy in, to be phased out?
Who could blame them?
Did you ever consider the problem was on your side of that fence on that one?

Much like the ORION system, it's garbage in and garbage out.

Part of the problem was on the management side on the implementation. But most of the problem was on your side. Don't take my word for it, take your brother's :

It never made it to my building, which means that it was scrapped pretty quickly after it started. My building didn't like the fact of hourly "managing" another hourly.

As he said, in his building, and across the country, the Teamsters tried to paint the program as hourlies managing hourlies. It was not, it was just giving the hourlies more input into their daily tasks. But look at the culture - yes there was some push back in the management ranks, but not much. Look at the culture UPS management has had for 100 years - when the brass says jump, guess what, we jump. For hourlies, the catch phrase is "Work as directed". For management it's "you have the right to disagree, you do not have the right to disobey." There was grumbling, but in general the management attempted to implement as they were instructed.

Now look at the Teamster's culture. There is a huge governing philosophy of us vs them, that anything the company wants must be bad for the members, so we must resist at every turn. And that is what they did. They actively encouraged employees not to participate in the work group meetings that were the very vehicle for them to give more forceful input into their dispatch and work assignments. In fact, they whined about the term "Team" (I remember an IBT propaganda leaflet with the line "already have a team, the Teamsters") that it was changed to "Work Groups".
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Yes, that's what was being suggested when a driver is dispatched "in the blind".....

......and nothing was suggested that anybody be paid for 8, while working 6.


How is sending a driver out in the blind, with 8+ on paper not throwing good money after bad?
How is that "an efficient business model"?


Maybe instead of plain English, somebody can workup an Excel spreadsheet sheet to help this IE guy understand?

If you read back in the original posts, no one said anything about being dispatched in the blind. What dragon said was that a dispatch is adjusted to make a complete day. Volume and stops, work, varies by a significant amount through out the week. So guess what, when a route that normally goes out with 125 stops, 50 of them business, and makes a 9 hour day (worked, not planned) on a Monday and on Tuesday it comes in with 25 business stops and 80 stops total, guess what? That driver is going to get some work off neighboring routes. And he will be expected to learn some nearby areas. I know, that's just down right mean of the vicious company. The reply to Dragon's post most definitely suggested this driver should be left as is and go out with an under 8 work day.

I love how going out blind is a huge problem, unless of course you're a cover driver and management tries to put you on a route you don't want to avoid sending another cover driver out on a route they've never done. Then the "little Hitler" stewards (totally stole that from Hoak) are all about learning new areas...
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
I'm dispatched with 6 hours worth of work everyday but it somehow gets me 9.5 hours of pay. When was the last time you pulled a route for a week?

There are many drivers capable of stretching 6 hours work into 9.5 hour days. Had a couple stewards in my center that managed to do that. Usually by running straight air then doubling back to drop off the ground business(when all the covers were capable of getting it all off) along with excess customer talk time and a "brisk pace" that my grandmother whose been dead for 20 years would think was slow. Ironically, I was ordered to just keep pairing their routes down to get them under 9.5 worked. The worst pain of it all was when they would call out and a cover driver would take the route. The Onroads (and me when I rotated from DPS to ORS) would have to cover the pickups because the cover drivers (and these were not runner-gunners) would be done by 2:30 and as often as not agree to code 5.
 

wide load

Starting wage is a waste of time.
There are many drivers capable of stretching 6 hours work into 9.5 hour days. Had a couple stewards in my center that managed to do that. Usually by running straight air then doubling back to drop off the ground business(when all the covers were capable of getting it all off) along with excess customer talk time and a "brisk pace" that my grandmother whose been dead for 20 years would think was slow. Ironically, I was ordered to just keep pairing their routes down to get them under 9.5 worked. The worst pain of it all was when they would call out and a cover driver would take the route. The Onroads (and me when I rotated from DPS to ORS) would have to cover the pickups because the cover drivers (and these were not runner-gunners) would be done by 2:30 and as often as not agree to code 5.
Did they get warning letters for sheeting stuff and not taking a lunch? If you think that isn't happening then you should work fo I.E.
 
N

Nothing by 1030 anymore

Guest
So you're suggesting a driver should only be given the same ranges every day and if his route comes in with 6hrs of work we should just let him go out with that and pay him the 8 hr guarantee? That does not sound like an efficient business model.
Well let's see, while most of us are working 10 to 12 hour days, get real. Same ranges? Isn't that why we bid on things called routes?
 
N

Nothing by 1030 anymore

Guest
There are many drivers capable of stretching 6 hours work into 9.5 hour days. Had a couple stewards in my center that managed to do that. Usually by running straight air then doubling back to drop off the ground business(when all the covers were capable of getting it all off) along with excess customer talk time and a "brisk pace" that my grandmother whose been dead for 20 years would think was slow. Ironically, I was ordered to just keep pairing their routes down to get them under 9.5 worked. The worst pain of it all was when they would call out and a cover driver would take the route. The Onroads (and me when I rotated from DPS to ORS) would have to cover the pickups because the cover drivers (and these were not runner-gunners) would be done by 2:30 and as often as not agree to code 5.
Lol. So screw the methods and try and do air and ground together? When we are instructed to run air? What happens when u deliver one late and research shows u could have made it had you just delivered air first ? God forbid air customers get theirs first . Excess talk time? Sales leads? Ups customer questions? Regular pace? You sir are a joke and embarrassing yourself . Dallas cowboys won super bowls, why can't everybody?
 
N

Nothing by 1030 anymore

Guest
There are many drivers capable of stretching 6 hours work into 9.5 hour days. Had a couple stewards in my center that managed to do that. Usually by running straight air then doubling back to drop off the ground business(when all the covers were capable of getting it all off) along with excess customer talk time and a "brisk pace" that my grandmother whose been dead for 20 years would think was slow. Ironically, I was ordered to just keep pairing their routes down to get them under 9.5 worked. The worst pain of it all was when they would call out and a cover driver would take the route. The Onroads (and me when I rotated from DPS to ORS) would have to cover the pickups because the cover drivers (and these were not runner-gunners) would be done by 2:30 and as often as not agree to code 5.
So u are basing ur response on 2 drivers? Lol
 

Faceplanted

Well-Known Member
There are many drivers capable of stretching 6 hours work into 9.5 hour days. Had a couple stewards in my center that managed to do that. Usually by running straight air then doubling back to drop off the ground business(when all the covers were capable of getting it all off) along with excess customer talk time and a "brisk pace" that my grandmother whose been dead for 20 years would think was slow. Ironically, I was ordered to just keep pairing their routes down to get them under 9.5 worked. The worst pain of it all was when they would call out and a cover driver would take the route. The Onroads (and me when I rotated from DPS to ORS) would have to cover the pickups because the cover drivers (and these were not runner-gunners) would be done by 2:30 and as often as not agree to code 5.
Sorry but I run only air first. I'm not playing the "why did you deliver ground and have late air game". Only exception is first Orion stop if it's ground. Otherwise air only.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Did they get warning letters for sheeting stuff and not taking a lunch? If you think that isn't happening then you should work fo I.E.

Of course not. The covers took a half hour lunch and did not sheet during that time. The problem with these routes was not running cover drivers.

I get that there are drivers who do that. Happens a lot and it should not.

But it was not the case with the routes I'm talking about. Yes, I went and did observations to find out. Come to think of it, one of my favorite burger joints that I still go to on occasion was on the route and I only know about it because I caught up with one of the cover drivers there while he was enjoying his lunch. To be fair, this particular cover driver was one of the best drivers I've ever known, the kind of guy who never made a wasted motion and could seem to remember every package he touched so he never touched one more than twice. I would not expect even the bid drivers to be as good as he was, but they sure as hell could have been better than they were.
 
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brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Sorry but I run only air first. I'm not playing the "why did you deliver ground and have late air game". Only exception is first Orion stop if it's ground. Otherwise air only.

I agree totally. If you cannot get the air off running both ground and air, run straight ground. If you can get them both off (as the cover drivers were usually able to do on the routes I mentioned, and I cannot remember them ever having a late air) that is a more efficient way of running it. If you are saying "screw the company, I know I can run both but I am going to run only air because I'm not going to play their game" then you are playing a game, are not working in the best interests of the employer, and are violating the contract. But that is nearly unprovable so if it makes you feel good, go to it.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Lol. So screw the methods and try and do air and ground together? When we are instructed to run air? What happens when u deliver one late and research shows u could have made it had you just delivered air first ? God forbid air customers get theirs first . Excess talk time? Sales leads? Ups customer questions? Regular pace? You sir are a joke and embarrassing yourself . Dallas cowboys won super bowls, why can't everybody?

It is not a regular pace, it is a brisk pace. I like how quick you are to make excuses for slackers.
If you are instructed to run straight air, absolutely do that. If you know the route well enough to know you can run both and get the last air off at 10:07 and have not been instructed to run straight air, then you are not working in the best interest of the employer and are violating the contract. But as I said earlier, that is unprovable so if it make you feel good, as it clearly did with these two stewards, go to it.

The joke here is your comparison to the Cowboys and Superbowls. These were drivers on bid routes they had had for years. Yet the covers could do them in just over half the time on a consistent basis. Its not the Cowboys won a super bowl why cant everyone, its more like why do the UT Longhorns win every time they take the field and the Cowboys get blown out when they show up against the same opponent.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
Well let's see, while most of us are working 10 to 12 hour days, get real. Same ranges? Isn't that why we bid on things called routes?

Yes, but a route is not the exact same ranges everyday. As I said, volume and stops vary throughout the week, and the same exact set of address ranges may have 12 hours of work one day, and 6 the next (yes, some areas fluctuate that much). And I am talking about work hours of an honest driver here, not some idiotic IE measurement.
 

Faceplanted

Well-Known Member
I agree totally. If you cannot get the air off running both ground and air, run straight ground. If you can get them both off (as the cover drivers were usually able to do on the routes I mentioned, and I cannot remember them ever having a late air) that is a more efficient way of running it. If you are saying "screw the company, I know I can run both but I am going to run only air because I'm not going to play their game" then you are playing a game, are not working in the best interests of the employer, and are violating the contract. But that is nearly unprovable so if it makes you feel good, go to it.
NO!!

How do I know there isn't an accident that holds me up or some other circumstance, than me delivering ground comes back to bite me in the ass. Air first..... friend your guys productivity I do my job the right way.
 

brownIEman

Well-Known Member
It never made it to my building, which means that it was scrapped pretty quickly after it started. My building didn't like the fact of hourly "managing" another hourly.

As to the timing you mention... Depends on what you mean by quickly. The attempt ran for around a year, from sometime in 1995 till the plug was pulled in late 1996 (about the same time Oz Nelson stepped down as CEO. and no, that was not a coincidence.)
 
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