Not one valid reason to stay with the Teamsters

[18wheelbrownie]

Yes the Teamsters have negotiated good pay and beneifts for us but that is what they are supposed to do! Someone mentioned that they have our backs. Well, if you look at our pension situation it would appear that they have only turned their back on us. They seem to have the back of the other 40%. They just need big brown to keep the gravy train rolling. Their only concern is making sure we get less of the gravy then everyone else.

As far as the APWA goes...I was kind of interested in them but they pretty much lost my support when I noticed they were trying to organize Overnit/UPS Freight. A union soley for UPS huh?

they are employees of ups and that means they would belong to a our own union , thats the whole point , our employee union , our own benfits , our own pension, for the money ups puts out for full time employees it would best serve us,and every employee of ups would and could belong to it!!!! if your a pkg dr. , i ask you, do you see how hard it is to delivery now with weight limits up to 150 lbs. and boxes exceeding 130 inches total measurement???
can you leave the union under the pension plan from the teamsters ,recieve your monthly pension for 20 yrs. at any age and not be penalize for being younger then 62 or 65 and start another job thats easier on your body??? don't be lead to believe this mess will be fixed any time soon, look at locals 804 and 177, their just finding out about their own pension problems. remember you still need people at the bottom to support your pension plan when you retire!!!!

 

[tieguy]

tieguy,
yes i remember the 3000 amount for 30 yrs but you forgot to mention , when the employee begins to collect social security , it would have been deducted from the 3000 a month and still no cola!!!!

18 I still have copies of the "last best final offer" the company put out in 97 and that is not in the offer. That was one of the rumors that started the last month based on one provision in the managment pension plan. The management pension plan basically has type A and type B disbursement. Type A is your typical upser putting in his 30 years and retiring. No penalty. Type B is the guy who retires at 55 with twenty years under his belt. He could elect to have more of his retirement front loaded with that amount being reduced once his social security kicked in. So a person retiring with twenty years is looking at 2000 a month since he was not with the company that long. Under the type B disbursement he gets 3000 a month until his SS kicks in when his disbursement is reduced by the amount of his SS.

 

[wildgoose]

18 I still have copies of the "last best final offer" the company put out in 97 and that is not in the offer. That was one of the rumors that started the last month based on one provision in the managment pension plan. The management pension plan basically has type A and type B disbursement. Type A is your typical upser putting in his 30 years and retiring. No penalty. Type B is the guy who retires at 55 with twenty years under his belt. He could elect to have more of his retirement front loaded with that amount being reduced once his social security kicked in. So a person retiring with twenty years is looking at 2000 a month since he was not with the company that long. Under the type B disbursement he gets 3000 a month until his SS kicks in when his disbursement is reduced by the amount of his SS.

Hey for what ever reason or not the bottom line until you force the teamsters by reducing their income they won`t do anything ? You take it away all of a sudden things will change until then you can just keep wasting your time !!!!!!!!!!

 

[over9five]

"Go to www.parcelworkers.com and ask them your questions. Or were you just saying that your union can not keep you safe."

How about you go to a Union hall meeting? Be a part of the solution instead of the problem for once.

 

[any122]

"Ask them your questions. Or were you just saying that your union can not keep you safe."

How about you go to a Union hall meeting? Be a part of the solution instead of the problem for once.

But when your at the hall if you ask a question that they find offensive be prepared for an escort off the property or to be threaten or punched.The other answer you will get is we will have to get back to you on that.The IBT is nothing but a sinking ship It's going down faster than the Titanic!I took Bretts suggestion I take the money that i would be paying in dues and opened a savings account.I already saved more than what central states is funded.

 

[satellitedriver]

"Ask them your questions. Or were you just saying that your union can not keep you safe."

How about you go to a Union hall meeting? Be a part of the solution instead of the problem for once.

Been there, did that and got screwed in 97'.
How about you,convince the union to double every other reamster union to double their dues(like Hoffa did UPS's in 98' after running on the platform not to increase dues.) How about you, convince the reamsters to take a 44% cut in pension vesting every year like central(IBT) states has done to UPSers. All to fund other reamsters pensions whose company's are out of business. How about you, convince the reamsters that UPS money should only go to UPSers. How about you, convincing me that I should be satisfied with the 40 cents the reamsters give me out of every dollar that UPS gives the reamsters for my benefits. UPS is the majority funder for reamsters and UPSers are the ones asked to sacrifice for the brotherhood.
As to being part of the solution question, I am part of the solution. I quit giving money to a corrupt group that does not have my best interests at heart.

 

[over9five]

The only solution I see is to fix the problems the Teamsters are having. You'll NEVER get the Teamsters replaced. There are too many of us with too much time vested with the Teamsters. We'll never go with an untried and untested group who have never represented anyone!!


PS. "Reamsters" was cute the first time you said it. Now it just sounds dumb.

 

[dragracer66]

The only solution I see is to fix the problems the Teamsters are having. You'll NEVER get the Teamsters replaced. There are too many of us with too much time vested with the Teamsters. We'll never go with an untried and untested group who have never represented anyone!!


PS. "Reamsters" was cute the first time you said it. Now it just sounds dumb.

Amen too that.....Also getting tired of these apwa supporters using the central state pension as their "only" excuse to get rid of the teamsters!!! You guy's need to think of more excuses than that. Maybe you need to put the effort your using to "convert" fellow teamsters over and try to figure out how you can help change the pension in the central states!!! GET A LIFE BOY"S!!!

 

[Gman24]

Amen too that.....Also getting tired of these apwa supporters using the central state pension as their "only" excuse to get rid of the teamsters!!! You guy's need to think of more excuses than that. Maybe you need to put the effort your using to "convert" fellow teamsters over and try to figure out how you can help change the pension in the central states!!! GET A LIFE BOY"S!!!

The Pension problem is only part of the battle cry. You guys have only been hearing what you want to hear when the APWA is brought up.
The APWA just had it's first SUCCESSFUL CONVENTION in DEC. The non-believers still don't think the APWA is a real UNION yet.

You guys are going to see how FOR REAL the APWA is by the end of FEBRUARY, when cards will be passed out for a decertification vote. WE only need 30% of those cards to be signed and turned in for the vote to become possible. I know the 30% will be no problem. AFter that, we only need for 50% + 1 vote for the REAMSTERS to be voted out. That will be a little more of a challenge, I do realize that. You TEAMSTERS supporters better hope you get more than 18% of a turnout for this vote.

 

[wyobill]

We tried to get out of all multi-employer pension plans in 97. Why opens up a whole can of possible worms:

1) union theory - to eventually control the pensions and not have to pay into them. Actual we offered a single employer plan that would have been co-administered therefore no company control.

2) Because we love our people and want the best for them. Actual - we recognize our people could do a lot better and we had a lot of our people asking us to fix the crappy plans once they lost faith in the teamsters to do so.

3) We saw huge potential liabilities with multi-employer plans. Actual - lot of truth through that answer. And it scares the crap out of us today. CS issues are the tip of the iceburg. A CS folding would mean the feds step in and expect us to dole out a lot more money to cover the plans liabilities. A CS folding could pull all of us down.

4) Going after the pension was meant to bring Carey to his knees. Actual - some truth to this . We threatened to go after the pension in 93 and got those stalemated talks moving. We then studied the issue and thought if ever we better do it in 97 since laws enacted would make it much more expensive for us to do so later. At this point I am speculating but I believe it was a ploy to get the teamsters to either give the pension plans up or to get them to do more to fix those plans. In so doing we may have also helped hurt them. Many plans looked at our offer to pay 3000 a month and raised their disbursements to meet that offer. CS was one of them. The teamsters did little to fix the plans Thus more being paid out and no more going in. Despite that its possible these plans would have been ok if not for the damage that 9/11 and the enron scandels did to the stock market and pension investments. Pension investors were not set up to quickly pull their money out. Those investment decisions are made methodically slow thus they sat their with their thumbs up their rears as the stock market quickly soured.

So short answer - the time was right to go after those pensions since it would cost much more to do so later. We went after them because many of our people asked us to do so and because we are scared to death of the financial liabilities we would encur if one of those huge monster plans should fold. CS would be the worst because we are the big dog in that plan and we would pay through the nose if it went up.

JMHOFWIW.

Thank you for you reply! This is exactly why some of us are willing
to dump the Teamsters for APWA. We want ouy of these multi-employer slush funds.

 

[satellitedriver]

The only solution I see is to fix the problems the Teamsters are having. You'll NEVER get the Teamsters replaced. There are too many of us with too much time vested with the Teamsters. We'll never go with an untried and untested group who have never represented anyone!!


PS. "Reamsters" was cute the first time you said it. Now it just sounds dumb.

"Stupid is as stupid does". I have 20 years invested in working for UPS not the reamsters. "REAMSTERS" was never ment to be cute, just descriptive of exactly what your union does with UPSers. So, stick with the group that has reamed you and your brethren at UPS. If they are never replaced it will make no difference in my life or future. I would rather stand alone on the shore than sail away on a ship of fools. The reamsters have been tried and tested (tried is an important word, as in how many reamster officials been tried by federal courts and found guilty?)
Never is a long time.
And,you are correct.
There are many too many who have time vested with the reamsters, instead of UPSers.
Money given by UPS should go only to UPSers.

 

[tieguy]

The only solution I see is to fix the problems the Teamsters are having. You'll NEVER get the Teamsters replaced. There are too many of us with too much time vested with the Teamsters. We'll never go with an untried and untested group who have never represented anyone!!


PS. "Reamsters" was cute the first time you said it. Now it just sounds dumb.

the question here though would be would you be willing to consider a switch if APWA or some other union came up with a viable plan where you would not lose anything.

 

[tieguy]

Amen too that.....Also getting tired of these apwa supporters using the central state pension as their "only" excuse to get rid of the teamsters!!! You guy's need to think of more excuses than that. Maybe you need to put the effort your using to "convert" fellow teamsters over and try to figure out how you can help change the pension in the central states!!! GET A LIFE BOY"S!!!

IN fairness to the issue central states is not the only plan hurting but is the most extreme example. In 2003 11 of 21 teamster multi-employer plans were at 70 percent or less. I have not seen any recent figures to see if any of those plans have rebounded. Many locals and many retirement plans have reduced beni's in some way to address the problems. In fairness to the issue the rising cost of pensions and beni's is not endemic to the teamster multi-employer plans but seems to affect multi-employer plans more so then single employer plans.

 

[brownmonster]

Single employer plans have another issue. Rich companies won ante up.

Exxon Mobil (XOM, news, msgs), for example, has the second biggest pension-fund shortfall (Ford is first.) Exxon has an $11.5 billion hole in its worker retirement plan



High prices for crude oil, gasoline and natural gas helped Exxon Mobil Corp. to its highest-ever quarterly profit, $9.92 billion, up 75 percent from the third quarter last year, the company said yesterday.

A promise to the shareholder is more important than a promise to the employee.

 

[tieguy]

Single employer plans have another issue. Rich companies won ante up.

Exxon Mobil (XOM, news, msgs), for example, has the second biggest pension-fund shortfall (Ford is first.) Exxon has an $11.5 billion hole in its worker retirement plan



High prices for crude oil, gasoline and natural gas helped Exxon Mobil Corp. to its highest-ever quarterly profit, $9.92 billion, up 75 percent from the third quarter last year, the company said yesterday.

A promise to the shareholder is more important than a promise to the employee.

Well Exxon has been having a rough time making ends meet......:blush:
single employer plan co-administered by both the company and the teamsters will stand the test and address the enron fears. Some of your locals have single employer plans and many of these do extremely well paying out as much as 7 K a month to retirees.

Mechanics local here is single employer. One of the mechanics is getting ready to retire with 15 years vested in the plan and will still recieve approximately 3000 a month.

Again don't confuse single employer plans with company controlled pension plans. Can be two different animals.

 

[Slothrop]

Again don't confuse single employer plans with company controlled pension plans. Can be two different animals.

Bob, are you sure about that? Care to expand on that? Cite an example in the real world? Isn't it true that a single employer plan can cease making contributions once funding reaches a certain level, in spite of collective bargaining agreements?

We've learned that just because you state something as a fact doesn't make it so.

 

[Bill]

Who is this APWA?? Never seen them. Never even heard them mentioned except on the internet.

Where are they?

When I retire in 5 years, how much will they give me per month?

Where were they when my salary was negotiated to $28 an hour?

I envision a UPS union as being the equivelant of the safety committee. Lots of talk, but will only do what the company will let them.

The Apwa is a union that is trying to replace the Teamsters so that UPS employees get everything they deserve. While the Teamsters are giving away UPS money to other companies (fact), the APWA is ensuring that we receive 100% of the money UPS contributes into our medical and pension funds. You will not have the restrictions that the Teamsters are instituting in regards to your retirement age. I don't know how old you are or which pension plan that you are in, but many of the pension plans are now sustaining major cuts. Why don't you find out how much the Teamsters are giving you when you retire, and find out if there is a penalty for retiring before age 62, and how much you will pay for insurance if you can afford it through the Teamsters. There is no security with the Teamsters. They say one thing and then after an election, or a new contract, they decide to change the agreement they just made. Case in point: The 2002 contract. The Teamsters were supposed to set aside so much money for your medical and pension plans. They ended up diverting the medical money into the pension fund. Why? To keep the fund from going under the critical point where the government takes over the fund. The Teamsters will not let this happen because if it does, they no longer will be able to use it for their own enrichment. They are not working for you, but you are working for them. As far as the $28 per hour goes, you are actually earning less than in 2002 when you made $23 per hour after adjusting for inflation. Don't believe me. Check this for yourself. Look up the Consumer price index from the government statistics. For your information, the Teamsters are only giving us 40% of the money that UPS contributes into the Central States fund. The APWA will represent only UPS workers and thus, all the money (100%) will be ours, and it stands to reason that more money translates to better benefits.

 

[Bill]

$28 per hour compared to Fed-X $22 per hour, job security, good health benefits for the cost of union dues, a pension for starters.

There is false sense of job security at UPS. If you do your job, you have nothing to worry about. However, if you are a screw-up, UPS will find a way to fire you with or without the Teamsters. Who are you kidding when you say good health benefits? The benefits keep getting worse, you are paying more and receiving less. The insurance company (Central States) denies claims or pays very little, leaving you with the balance. The reason for this is that the Teamsters are diverting your health and welfare money into the pension fund, which by the way, is also taking big cuts. The Teamsters are also giving away 60% of UPS money to other companies. Do you like receiving only 40% of what you are entitled to? UPS contributes $1.3 billion into the pension fund annually. If we had access to 100% of the money, your pension would be secure and you would receive approximately $7000 per month in your pension. As it stands now, we receive less than $3000 per month with many restrictions after working for 30 years. After applying penalties, you might receive $1000 per month depending on your age. the APWA wants to rectify that by giving you what you are entitled to with no penalties. Why can the APWA do this, but the Teamsters can't. Simply put, the Teamsters are using our money to support other companies, we receive only 40% of the money. The APWA which represents only UPS employees, will have access to 100% of the money. The cost of union dues is a joke. While the union dues keep going up, your medical benefits, pension fund, and real wages (adjusting for inflation) goes down.

 

[moreluck]

engineer79....just a thought, don't compare your health benefits to what they used to be.....compare your present health benefits to other company's present health benefits. Everybody (all companies) are paying more and getting less.

 

[Bill]

same question again. You list a lot of reasons why you don't like the teamsters. What makes APWA the obvious replacement. What experience do they bring to the table. What union have the managed in the past. What retirement plan have they previously engineered that has done so much better then the teamsters. Look I'm management and I certainly have no love for the teamsters but I do have to ask why APWA what makes them better?

If you are in the UPS management (I doubt it very much as your grammar and writing skills are poor), then you should not care which union represents the UPS employees. This leads me to believe that you are in the Teamster management. If this is the case, I understand that you are interested in keeping your job, because without the money that UPS contributes into the Teamster treasury (union dues, pension money, medical), you might be earning less or looking for employment elsewhere. I will explain why the APWA must replace the Teamsters as our bargaining agent. Under the Teamsters, we have seen our medical benefits and pension plans drastically cut, Union dues have gone up, and our hourly salary has less buying power now than before the last contract was negotiated. You can verify this by looking up the consumer price index on the U.S. government statistics. If this is the best that the Teamsters can negotiate (best contract ever), then I don't want them negotiating future contracts. Although the APWA is new, it is a new beginning and a secure future, where there is none with the Teamsters. The Teamsters want us to work until we reach the age of 65! How many of us can do this back breaking work until 65? If you are in UPS management, do you really want old package car drivers who can give very little production? The Teamsters give us only 40% of UPS money, with the rest going to other companies and toward their own personal use. They think it is their money, and that is why they place so many restrictions on us. The APWA will only represent UPS people, thus we will receive 100% of the money that UPS contributes into our medical and pension plans.
It is a no brainer. More money translates into better medical benefits and a much better and secure pension. As far as experience, just look at the UPS pilots union. A few years ago, the pilots were associated with the Teamsters. They decided to break away from the Teamsters. Look at them now. They formed their own union (IPA). They received a huge pay raise, and an increase in their pension. Can you say the same for the hard-working UPS employees who have lost the 30-and-out enticement, had medical and pension cuts, and endured an increase in the union dues? It is time for a change. Abandon the sinking ship (Teamsters), and come aboard on a new direction (APWA). This is only going to happen if we get the support of the hard working employees. We need you to get involved by spreading the word of the APWA, but most of all, we need your vote when the time comes.