Now what? Opt In / Opt Out

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

A couple of questions reagarding the opt in/opt out and bids . How will this affect the bids this year?There are some routes that there is no way the driver can use this opt in /opt out option.That will affect how we bid. And is it true the new 2 year bids go in effect this year and not next? I heard many of the changes that don't have to do with money went into effect Jan. 1st

Depends on where you are. In New england, it's a bid this Feb-April, then moves to 2 year bids. I think it's variable overall.

 

[tieguy]

UPS didn't "bail out" Central States. They are just paying off their debt to Central States, as ERISA has required since 1980.

a realistic evaluation would be that they did both.

 

[JonFrum]

Originally Posted by tieguy
LOL thats funny. Lets see what do my union buddies call someone who takes advantage of the benifits of membership but does not join? Oh yea a scab jonfrum.

Actually Tie they are not SCABS but merely FREERIDERS (not sure which is the worst) Either way they are Persona Non Grata BC (not BCS fan for sure)

BCFan,

Not sure if your swipe at me was intentional or inadvertent, but for the record, I pay $81 a month in dues to my Local. I've paid full-time dues and initiation fees ever since the Nixon Administration, even though I didn't go full-time until 1998.

As to Browncafe, I pay the same monthly dues that you and Trollguy, and everyone else pays: $Zero. Please don't feed the Troll, BC (not Being Careful.)

 

[JonFrum]

Originally Posted by JonFrum
UPS didn't "bail out" Central States. They are just paying off their debt to Central States, as ERISA has required since 1980.

a realistic evaluation would be that they did both.

No, Tie. UPS could only be said to "bail out" Central States if it contributed money that it didn't have to, like a gift or grant. In fact, UPS contributed money that it legally owed to the Fund, period. Paying off your debts is not an act of charity. It's the Law.

Now Arkansas Best Freight (ABF) intends to withdraw and pay its Withdrawal Liability. If every contributing employer would pay its own Withdrawal Liability (with or without actually withdrawing,) Central States would be fully funded and there would be no perceived need for a "bail out" in the first place. It's only because contributing employers can't be forced to pay their Withdrawal Liability until they actually withdraw, that the Fund appears to be underfunded and in need of a bail out. It's like a business with a lot of Accounts Receivable. If only the delinquent customers would pay their bills, the business would be doing just fine.

 

[trickpony1]

Game, set, match.......
One Tin Soldier (JonFrum) rides away.........

 

[longlunchguy]

So, at the risk of being sucked into Jon and Tie's vortex... opting in or opting out... which list do we want to be on in order to get the max for our greivances if we're over 9.5? I haven't seen a list in our center, and want to be sure what I'm asking about when I go in tommorrow.

 

[BrownShark]

So, at the risk of being sucked into Jon and Tie's vortex... opting in or opting out... which list do we want to be on in order to get the max for our greivances if we're over 9.5? I haven't seen a list in our center, and want to be sure what I'm asking about when I go in tommorrow.

its real simple,

If you OPT IN, you have the ability to file for grievance pay for excessive overtime AFTER two days dispatch over 9.5.

example opt in:

mon 10.5
tue 10.5
wed 9.5
thur 9.5
fri 9.5

this would be in compliance and no grievance would be in order.

example opt in violation:

mon 10.5
tue 10.5
wed 10.5
thur 11.0
fri 10.5

The company would be in violation for ALL OVERTIME hours starting on wed thru fri at TRIPLE TIME.

That would total 8 hours of OT at triple time or $85.50 an hour x 8 hours = $684.00 in violation. ($85.50 is top pay times 3)

If you OPT OUT, there is NO WAY to file any grievances for overtime as you have waived your rights to do so. You can thank the teamsters and the officers of each local for this one.

AS for signing up, ALL CENTERS had to post the OPT in and OPT out 10 days before the end of the year. If not, an immediate posting is required. There is NO WAY AROUND THIS AS IT IS MANDATORY FOR ALL FULL TIME DRIVERS.

The committment is for 5 months and the next signup period begins on MAY 1 2008.

You would have to be a complete idiot to OPT OUT. The OPT OUT drivers get all the work that has to be removed from the 9.5 guys or the 8 hour request guys before it is dispatched to ANY other driver regardless of seniority.

Another little secret left out by the Teamsters.

Good luck in your centers.

Peace.

 

[tieguy]

No, Tie. UPS could only be said to "bail out" Central States if it contributed money that it didn't have to, like a gift or grant.

my point exactly. they gave them money they did not have thus shoring them up financially. Saying it was owed them does not mean they had it. Many companies owed them money but folded before they paid the money owed. Saying its owed does not mean they have it. Your logic here is almost as bad as your logic for scabbing this board.

 

[JonFrum]

So, at the risk of being sucked into Jon and Tie's vortex... opting in or opting out... which list do we want to be on in order to get the max for our greivances if we're over 9.5? I haven't seen a list in our center, and want to be sure what I'm asking about when I go in tommorrow.

The List had to be posted "No later than thirty (30) days prior to each January 1st . . ." That's by December 2, 2007 at the latest. Since the Contract wasn't even ratified until December 19th or so, I don't see how this particular "inovation" can be legally implimented this time around. The next list should be posted by May 2nd, and take effect June 1st.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

You make NO sense tieguy, it was owed, they were supposed to pay it in. OK with your logic, I shouldn't pay my taxes if someone else doesn't, maybe I see someone walk out of a business with merchandise not paid for, guess that's ok too.

 

[JonFrum]

No, Tie. UPS could only be said to "bail out" Central States if it contributed money that it didn't have to, like a gift or grant.

my point exactly. they gave them money they did not have thus shoring them up financially. Saying it was owed them does not mean they had it. Many companies owed them money but folded before they paid the money owed. Saying its owed does not mean they have it. Your logic here is almost as bad as your logic for scabbing this board.

And at the risk of beating this dead horse one more time: The money is really coming mostly from the American Taxpayers (after UPS files for the huge deduction), and the UPS Teamsters nationwide who were not in the Central States Pension Plan (through the huge monetary concessions made to UPS in the new Contract.)

 

[Coldworld]

its real simple,

If you OPT IN, you have the ability to file for grievance pay for excessive overtime AFTER two days dispatch over 9.5.

example opt in:

mon 10.5
tue 10.5
wed 9.5
thur 9.5
fri 9.5

this would be in compliance and no grievance would be in order.

example opt in violation:

mon 10.5
tue 10.5
wed 10.5
thur 11.0
fri 10.5

The company would be in violation for ALL OVERTIME hours starting on wed thru fri at TRIPLE TIME.

That would total 8 hours of OT at triple time or $85.50 an hour x 8 hours = $684.00 in violation. ($85.50 is top pay times 3)

If you OPT OUT, there is NO WAY to file any grievances for overtime as you have waived your rights to do so. You can thank the teamsters and the officers of each local for this one.

AS for signing up, ALL CENTERS had to post the OPT in and OPT out 10 days before the end of the year. If not, an immediate posting is required. There is NO WAY AROUND THIS AS IT IS MANDATORY FOR ALL FULL TIME DRIVERS.

The committment is for 5 months and the next signup period begins on MAY 1 2008.

You would have to be a complete idiot to OPT OUT. The OPT OUT drivers get all the work that has to be removed from the 9.5 guys or the 8 hour request guys before it is dispatched to ANY other driver regardless of seniority.

Another little secret left out by the Teamsters.

Good luck in your centers.

Peace.

Brownshark, are you saying that every driver needs to sign yes or no. My center had the list up and then took it down, some drivers never had the chance to sign it either way. Also, by your numbers, an opt in driver could be making more money with having grievences filed for an hour over 9.5 each day than a driver working 11,5 hours opting out...interesting.

 

[JonFrum]

its real simple, . . .

BrownShark,

I think you're being too optimistic about how this new language will be implimented. Reread Article 37 critically, especially this:

"The Employer's Vice President and the Union's Co-Chair shall have the discretion to grant the grievant triple time pay for hours worked in excess of nine and one-half (9.5) hours per day and/or to order the Employer to adjust the driver's work schedule. . . ."

You may only get triple time if your case goes all the way up the chain of command, and only for the hours over 9.5, and only if everyone agrees it wasn't your fault, or the fault of factors beyond UPS' control, and you may get nothing except a promise that it won't happen again.

 

[longlunchguy]

Thanks, Shark. I will be asking about the list and encouraging the other drivers to opt in.

 

[BrownShark]

Brownshark, are you saying that every driver needs to sign yes or no. My center had the list up and then took it down, some drivers never had the chance to sign it either way. Also, by your numbers, an opt in driver could be making more money with having grievences filed for an hour over 9.5 each day than a driver working 11,5 hours opting out...interesting.

That is the point. OVERTIME now has severe penalties. True, it will take some time to get, however, its a slam dunk when IE cuts routes and the drivers get dispatched more than two days over 9.5.

Indeed, a driver (in theory) could make more money by taing the dispatch and simply handing in a grievance the following monday.

As long as IE and the company are cutting routes, it wont be that tough to pin the violation on the company.

As for OPTing in or OUT, IMO, all drivers should OPT in, then if you want the OT, great. If you dont, file the grievance and make them pay for it.

The company in all its wisdom has shown its stupidity on running the business. They always find ways to make it cost more than it has too in operating the business.

Paying for excesive OT is just another way to lose money.

Peace.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

BrownShark,

It's been awhile since you started this thread.

How has your center handled this since then? Have routes been added or cut? Are drivers still working excessive over 9.5's? Have more coverage drivers been implemented? Have you noticed any changes?

 

[tieguy]

No, Tie. UPS could only be said to "bail out" Central States if it contributed money that it didn't have to, like a gift or grant.

You keep trying to dance around this issue. If CS collects 6.1 billion from ups this year then thats 6.1 billion CS did not have in its coffers before this year. Many trucking companies went out of business without ever paying "what was owed"

 

[JustTired]

You keep trying to dance around this issue. If CS collects 6.1 billion from ups this year then thats 6.1 billion CS did not have in its coffers before this year. Many trucking companies went out of business without ever paying "what was owed"

Actually, I think there was at least a partial buyout. As I understand it, the legal withdrawal obligation was actually around $4 billion. The $6.1 billion was offered (most likely) to get the union on board during the contract negotiations. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

So, at the risk of being sucked into Jon and Tie's vortex... opting in or opting out... which list do we want to be on in order to get the max for our greivances if we're over 9.5? I haven't seen a list in our center, and want to be sure what I'm asking about when I go in tommorrow.

The list hasn't gone up in our center yet either.

 

[stopcomplete]

Havent seen or heard antything about the list in our center.