Orion, does it work and if not? Why?

[Mugarolla]

They walked off the job and quit at peak earning more $/hr.

The company will need a lot more trucks and supes if that's the game plan.

The real issue is will the IBT try to impose it upon us as a believable scenario. That's the bigger issue IMO.

Looking at their track record lately doesn't spawn trust or faith that they have our backs as much as they take care of their own tranquility.

Seasonals walked off the job because they knew it was only temporary. It someone knew it was full time, they be more willing to stick around.

Hell, look at FedEx Ground. That's about all they make and they don't have a problem filling their job positions.

And no, they will not need more trucks. They can just put 2 on a truck. Sups, well, maybe.

I am not saying it will happen, but UPS now has the capability to replace everyone of us. They really didn't have this until ORION. That is why they spent over $1B and have not trashed it yet.

For those of you that think you're the best package driver out there and that you cannot be replaced, your head is bigger than Bubbleheads.

 

[Mugarolla]

Yea, I can see it now with our current leaders. They will be saying since the job is less complicated and the decision making by drivers has been greatly diminished. That is why we agreed to a 10 year progression for part timers and a dollar less an hour for pkg car drivers but your " Teamcare" deductibles have been increased.

You are not putting ideas in their heads. They are already thinking things like this.

 

[brownmonster]

Most of us older drivers had no problem learning routes and being productive before PAS, EDD or ORION. The new guys we get seem to handle it pretty well at 18.75 an hour.

 

[10 point]

Seasonals walked off the job because they knew it was only temporary. It someone knew it was full time, they be more willing to stick around.

Hell, look at FedEx Ground. That's about all they make and they don't have a problem filling their job positions.

And no, they will not need more trucks. They can just put 2 on a truck. Sups, well, maybe.

I am not saying it will happen, but UPS now has the capability to replace everyone of us. They really didn't have this until ORION. That is why they spent over $1B and have not trashed it yet.

For those of you that think you're the best package driver out there and that you cannot be replaced, your head is bigger than Bubbleheads.

"Two on a truck"?

Let's see....
2X$16= $32.00
2X$18.75= $37.50

Great savings? So much for stock dividends. Our drivers way out produce theirs in every category including customer relations.

FedEx ground still sucks in service and efficiency. I've seen them in metro and rural routes.

Make the job $15-18.75 per hour and see what you get. Cheap labor with little loyalty and all the UPS stress to go with it.

 

[brownmonster]

"Two on a truck"?

Let's see....
2X$16= $32.00
2X$18.75= $37.50

Great savings? So much for stock dividends. Our drivers way out produce theirs in every category including customer relations.

FedEx ground still sucks in service and efficiency. I've seen them in metro and rural routes.

Make the job $15-18.75 per hour and see what you get. Cheap labor with little loyalty and all the UPS stress to go with it.

At least the on car Supes would have plenty to do. Constantly training instead of pushing paper.

 

[10 point]

At least the on car Supes would have plenty to do. Constantly training instead of pushing paper.

The blind leading the blind. Except this time there'd be more of them.

 

[10 point]

Yes, but the threat is there and the Union knows it. It will not be just 1 last, final, best offer front UPS on the next contract, but the Union has lost a lot of its bargaining power because of Tom, Dick and Harry scenario.

With PAS, preloaded can be easily replaced. Unloaded same way. Sorters will be harder to replace but can be done.

Feeder drivers are the easiest to replace. Now with ORION, the package car driver can be replaced.

It is all a bargaining tool for the next, and subsequent contracts. The threat of a strike won't have the impact that it once did.

Explain why the company would want to replace the part time workers.

They can't seem to keep them now.
Your statements about the part timers is mute and overblown to support your ease of replacement claims.

Without a good driver's relationship the customer will ship by price only.
Wipe out the UPS troops and hire off the street? Go for it.

It'll be like Huffy bicycle stock after they sent the manufacturing over to China. Stock fell to $1.50 a share. The number two selling bicycle product line in the US fell to the bottom of customer demand because it was considered junk.
It'll be the same for UPS. What at one time was a company customers could set their watches by will become the greatest let down in service history.

It took years to build this level of quality and respect for our work ethic.
It'll take just a short time to destroy it by using your theory.

 

[brownmonster]

Explain why the company would want to replace the part time workers.

They can't seem to keep them now.
Your statements about the part timers is mute and overblown to support your ease of replacement claims.

Without a good driver's relationship the customer will ship by price only.
Wipe out the UPS troops and hire off the street.

It'll be like Huffy bicycle stock after they sent the manufacturing over to China. Stock fell to $1.50 a share. The number two selling bicycle product line in the US fell to the bottom of customer demand because it was considered junk.

I thought Huffy was always considered junk.

 

[10 point]

I thought Huffy was always considered junk.

In the 80's-90's Huffy was the number two bike in the US. Murray was right up there until financial woes became a hurdle.

There was an English made touring bike very popular as well but the Huffy line was in the middle class affordability spectrum. They were close to number 1 in the early 90's.

 

[Irishman Collins]

"Two on a truck"?

Let's see....
2X$16= $32.00
2X$18.75= $37.50

Great savings? So much for stock dividends. Our drivers way out produce theirs in every category including customer relations.

FedEx ground still sucks in service and efficiency. I've seen them in metro and rural routes.

Make the job $15-18.75 per hour and see what you get. Cheap labor with little loyalty and all the UPS stress to go with it.

Fed Ex ground is absolutely no competition to UPS. They are subcontractors who in some cases will not work if the weather is bad. If a driver calls in sick. The route may not run for the day and their customer relations is pathetic to say the least. Until Fed Ex decides to turn the ground portion of their business into corporate. UPS will remain to have basically a monopoly on the ground business. This is why UPS feels very comfortable implementing a technology that is in its early stages. They know, no matter what, customers may leave for a short time but they will be back. If UPS had real competition they would do things a lot different.

 

[10 point]

Fed Ex ground is absolutely no competition to UPS. They are subcontractors who in some cases will not work if the weather is bad. If a driver calls in sick. The route may not run for the day and their customer relations is pathetic to say the least. Until Fed Ex decides to turn the ground portion of their business into corporate. UPS will remain to have basically a monopoly on the ground business. This is why UPS feels very comfortable implementing a technology that is in its early stages. They know, no matter what, customers may leave for a short time but they will be back. If UPS had real competition they would do things a lot different.

We've lost multimillion $ accounts to FedEx Ground in our county.

Why?

Because it's tdp work and that's by price first and service second.

Where we make our most profitability is from the small to medium shippers who actually deal with a bid driver and see him daily.

 

[Bubblehead]

Hell, look at FedEx Ground. That's about all they make and they don't have a problem filling their job positions.

And no, they will not need more trucks. They can just put 2 on a truck. Sups, well, maybe.

I am not saying it will happen, but UPS now has the capability to replace everyone of us. They really didn't have this until ORION. That is why they spent over $1B and have not trashed it yet.

"Two on a truck"?

Let's see....
2X$16= $32.00
2X$18.75= $37.50

Great savings? So much for stock dividends. Our drivers way out produce theirs in every category including customer relations.

FedEx ground still sucks in service and efficiency. I've seen them in metro and rural routes.

Make the job $15-18.75 per hour and see what you get. Cheap labor with little loyalty and all the UPS stress to go with it.

Is Mugarolla saying that these drivers will only be getting this reduced hourly rate?
No benefits or pension??
That's why the company can put 2 "drivers" on each truck???

ORIAN is about justifying higher stop counts with lower miles, without considering any other variable besides miles.

In it's present form, it is a pipe dream.

P.S. I don't recall ever learning any of the dozens of FedEx ground drivers names that have seen on my route over the last decade. It is a revolving door for FedEx Ground drivers unless they own their route, which few do.

 

[Mugarolla]

"Two on a truck"?

Let's see....
2X$16= $32.00
2X$18.75= $37.50

Great savings? So much for stock dividends. Our drivers way out produce theirs in every category including customer relations.

FedEx ground still sucks in service and efficiency. I've seen them in metro and rural routes.

Make the job $15-18.75 per hour and see what you get. Cheap labor with little loyalty and all the UPS stress to go with it.

2 on a truck for the first month or 2 until the $15/hr driver learns how to do it. Then only 1 on the truck.

1 at $15/hr

vs

1 at $33/hr

You do the math.

 

[Mugarolla]

Explain why the company would want to replace the part time workers.

They can't seem to keep them now.
Your statements about the part timers is mute and overblown to support your ease of replacement claims.

Without a good driver's relationship the customer will ship by price only.
Wipe out the UPS troops and hire off the street? Go for it.

It'll be like Huffy bicycle stock after they sent the manufacturing over to China. Stock fell to $1.50 a share. The number two selling bicycle product line in the US fell to the bottom of customer demand because it was considered junk.
It'll be the same for UPS. What at one time was a company customers could set their watches by will become the greatest let down in service history.

It took years to build this level of quality and respect for our work ethic.
It'll take just a short time to destroy it by using your theory.

Yes, the customer would ship by price only. UPS would be the cheapest with $15/hr drivers.

 

[Mugarolla]

Is Mugarolla saying that these drivers will only be getting this reduced hourly rate?
No benefits or pension??
That's why the company can put 2 "drivers" on each truck???

ORIAN is about justifying higher stop counts with lower miles, without considering any other variable besides miles.

In it's present form, it is a pipe dream.

P.S. I don't recall ever learning any of the dozens of FedEx ground drivers names that have seen on my route over the last decade. It is a revolving door for FedEx Ground drivers unless they own their route, which few do.

This is only a scenario. A backup plan if the Teamsters take a hard line next contract.

UPS is just showing the Teamsters that they don't need them. A negotiating tactic.

But if push came to shove???

 

[Mugarolla]

Is Mugarolla saying that these drivers will only be getting this reduced hourly rate?
No benefits or pension??
That's why the company can put 2 "drivers" on each truck???

ORIAN is about justifying higher stop counts with lower miles, without considering any other variable besides miles.

In it's present form, it is a pipe dream.

P.S. I don't recall ever learning any of the dozens of FedEx ground drivers names that have seen on my route over the last decade. It is a revolving door for FedEx Ground drivers unless they own their route, which few do.

OK. I may have been exaggerating a little at $15/hr. UPS would pay around $25/hr with full medical and full pension to get and keep good quality help. With that wage and benefits, they could get all the quality people they needed.

This would save them $10/hr over what most full timers are making now. Doing some rough math in my head, this would save UPS around $4B per year. That is a lot of zeros.

What a lot of you don't realize is that they are going to get the $25/hr drivers anyway. Yes, UPS wants to cap new hires at $25/hr.

And those of you that voted yes on this last contract, did not seem to care about the people in the company medical plan. You voted us right out of it. Some of the comments I read were...it was a good contract...it was a good contract for me, and I need to take care of myself etc.

I really can't blame you. We all need to look out for ourselves. So how can I believe that you would even care about people not even working here yet?

UPS will keep your wages, medical and pension where they are at, with your yearly increases, and cap the new hires at $25/hr. You will say that it is a good contract and vote it in, screwing the new hires. But hey, it will be good for you, right?

The union will fight this tooth and nail, only because their dues money is based on the hourly wage. They will get $25 less per month for each employee compared to the $35/hr current employees.

The union probably won't even want to put it to a vote because they know it will pass. Everybody for themselves, right? You will keep what you got, so screw the new hires. They won't be voting. They don't work here yet.

The problem is, UPS can force a vote. And here is the million dollar question.

Are you willing to strike for the the people not even working here yet, even though you will still make your $35/hr with full medical and pension?

Everybody for themselves, right?

So you see, UPS will get their $25/hr drivers, one way or another. With or without the union.

 

[Irishman Collins]

OK. I may have been exaggerating a little at $15/hr. UPS would pay around $25/hr with full medical and full pension to get and keep good quality help. With that wage and benefits, they could get all the quality people they needed.

This would save them $10/hr over what most full timers are making now. Doing some rough math in my head, this would save UPS around $4B per year. That is a lot of zeros.

What a lot of you don't realize is that they are going to get the $25/hr drivers anyway. Yes, UPS wants to cap new hires at $25/hr.

And those of you that voted yes on this last contract, did not seem to care about the people in the company medical plan. You voted us right out of it. Some of the comments I read were...it was a good contract...it was a good contract for me, and I need to take care of myself etc.

I really can't blame you. We all need to look out for ourselves. So how can I believe that you would even care about people not even working here yet?

UPS will keep your wages, medical and pension where they are at, with your yearly increases, and cap the new hires at $25/hr. You will say that it is a good contract and vote it in, screwing the new hires. But hey, it will be good for you, right?

The union will fight this tooth and nail, only because their dues money is based on the hourly wage. They will get $25 less per month for each employee compared to the $35/hr current employees.

The union probably won't even want to put it to a vote because they know it will pass. Everybody for themselves, right? You will keep what you got, so screw the new hires. They won't be voting. They don't work here yet.

The problem is, UPS can force a vote. And here is the million dollar question.

Are you willing to strike for the the people not even working here yet, even though you will still make your $35/hr with full medical and pension?

Everybody for themselves, right?

So you see, UPS will get their $25/hr drivers, one way or another. With or without the union.

What you are referring to is a classic way that companies break unions. In the end it is up to our negotiators to find a reason other than new hires being topped out at 25 dollars an hour to strike. There is no way in our selfish world we live in that people will care enough to strike for the "unborn". The problem is that our current administration has already started this process, i.e, additional part time progression for full time wages and benefits. This is one of many reasons that a new administration must be voted for. Our Union is weaker than it has ever been and we must do something before it is too late.

 

[Ron Carey lives on]

We are to lose a million dollar acount p/u and delivery do to orion , they receiving and be picked up at 3pm. The used to get their packages at 10am and a pick up at 4 15pm

Sent using BrownCafe App

 

[10 point]

Yes, the customer would ship by price only. UPS would be the cheapest with $15/hr drivers.

Ups will reduce pricing across the board like we're getting turkeys for peak this year.

That's funny.

 

[10 point]

OK. I may have been exaggerating a little at $15/hr. UPS would pay around $25/hr with full medical and full pension to get and keep good quality help. With that wage and benefits, they could get all the quality people they needed.

This would save them $10/hr over what most full timers are making now. Doing some rough math in my head, this would save UPS around $4B per year. That is a lot of zeros.

What a lot of you don't realize is that they are going to get the $25/hr drivers anyway. Yes, UPS wants to cap new hires at $25/hr.

And those of you that voted yes on this last contract, did not seem to care about the people in the company medical plan. You voted us right out of it. Some of the comments I read were...it was a good contract...it was a good contract for me, and I need to take care of myself etc.

I really can't blame you. We all need to look out for ourselves. So how can I believe that you would even care about people not even working here yet?

UPS will keep your wages, medical and pension where they are at, with your yearly increases, and cap the new hires at $25/hr. You will say that it is a good contract and vote it in, screwing the new hires. But hey, it will be good for you, right?

The union will fight this tooth and nail, only because their dues money is based on the hourly wage. They will get $25 less per month for each employee compared to the $35/hr current employees.

The union probably won't even want to put it to a vote because they know it will pass. Everybody for themselves, right? You will keep what you got, so screw the new hires. They won't be voting. They don't work here yet.

The problem is, UPS can force a vote. And here is the million dollar question.

Are you willing to strike for the the people not even working here yet, even though you will still make your $35/hr with full medical and pension?

Everybody for themselves, right?

So you see, UPS will get their $25/hr drivers, one way or another. With or without the union.

Why didn't you say $25/hr?
$15 is a joke.

If my pay dropped to even $18.00/hr I'd be gone.

P.S. We voted No...three times.