Possible Suspicious Incidents

[over9five]

More, I think you may be forgetting that he never went through our security. He went through security when he first boarded the plane and again in Amsterdam. There is no way he would have made it through a TSA checkpoint.

Yup, good or bad it had absolutely nothing to do with Obama.

ie, Napolitano's an idiot if she thinks it does.

 

[tieguy]

Listen , I was just being an a-hole . But I think bush's record is actually more like 8 months (remember 9-11).

We can't cherry pick blame. If the economy is still Bush's fault even though Obama was in congress at the time then Clinton gets the blame for 9/11 and Bush's record is now 8 years of safety from terrorism. Let me know when its time to start letting Obama take some responsibility.

Also the flight that blew up over the rockaways in Queens about a month and half later I believe that was also a terrorist incident that was covered up to be something else-I believe the official reason was that the plane was in the wake of another plane's turbulence.
I have many friends in queens who were eye and ear witnesses. I mention "ear" because a sound made them look up in the sky and they saw and heard something very incongruent with the official report. Remember, the airline industry was reeling at that point and the last thing it needed was another terrorist incident

There could be a lot of explanations for an unusual sound involving an airplane.

 

[tieguy]

My boy has been waterboarded several times. He says it is unpleasant but isn't torture.

God bless your boy.

I think its a great question. Those opposed to waterboarding throw out the geneva convention and various anti-torture laws and agreements. The problem is the terrorist didn't sign those agreements and do not abide by them. So we're essentially trying to apply conventional guidelines to unconventional warfare. How many more women and children will terrorists have to kill before we recognize that they do not deserve the privledge of geneva guidelines in return.

 

[tieguy]

Napolitano (Homeland Security) said this morning that under Obama, the system worked!!!!

I'd hate to see the results if the system didn't work!!!

That guy should have never been on that plane.......even his own father tried to tip everyone about him.

We have a blind woman heading our security. I'm no where near a plane, thankyou!

Our system did not work. Their (the terrorist) system failed.

 

[over9five]

Yup, good or bad it had absolutely nothing to do with Obama.

ie, Napolitano's an idiot if she thinks it does.

Yikes, I just changed my mind after reading of how this guys father warned the US 6 months ago about his son. This is a HUGE issue for the Obama Administration. After being warned, they did NOTHING to prevent this guy from entering the country.

"He was not put on the no-fly list because authorities couldn't find enough negative information on him, a U.S. administration official said Saturday, according to Reuters."

I guess the negative information from his own father wasn't enough? Obama got lucky on this one.

 

[soberups]

Waterboarding or any other form of torture should continue to be illegal; however, if CIA/Law enforcement/military personel decide to use it anyway and as a result of the torture are able to prevent a terrorist incident, they should be able to use the information they uncover as an "affirmative defense" in any trial they may face. In other words...show me the bomb you found by torturing someone and you get a free pass. Otherwise, you give the authorities a blank check to torture anyone, anytime, anywhere.

Another option might be a requirement to first obtain a "torture warrant" in which the reasons for the proposed torture, the information it seks to obtain, as well as the manner in which it is to be inflicted are all spelled out. There needs to be some level of transparency and due process.

Real life bears little resemblance to an episode of "24" and we need to remember that fact before we allow our govt to start torturing other human beings without any accountability or just cause.

 

[Jones]

Ronald Reagan did the right thing when he signed the UN convention against torture back in 1988. From his letter to the senate:

"The United States participated actively and effectively in the negotiation of the Convention. It marks a significant step in the development during this century of international measures against torture and other inhuman treatment or punishment. Ratification of the Convention by the United States will clearly express United States opposition to torture, an abhorrent practice unfortunately still prevalent in the world today. The core provisions of the Convention establish a regime for international cooperation in the criminal prosecution of torturers relying on so-called 'universal jurisdiction.' Each State Party is required either to prosecute torturers who are found in its territory or to extradite them to other countries for prosecution."

From Article 2 of the convention:

Article 2.
1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.

Waterboarding is torture, and the US has had no problems labeling it as such when other countries used it. In the aftermath of WW2 we named it specifically as a war crime when we prosecuted the Japanese for it's use. It's hypocritical in the extreme to pretend that it's not torture when we do it. The argument that torture is ok now because the terrorists do it misses the point entirely. It's not about what the kind of people the terrorists are, it's about what kind of people we are. Reagan understood this, in no small part because of the two Americans who were captured and tortured to death during his administration. He saw the tapes of William Buckley being tortured, which have never been made public. He insisted on signing that convention because he wanted to make sure that US would never engage in something so dehumanizing.
Torturing people wont make us safer, it will just make us a nation that tortures people.

 

[tonyexpress]

Here we go again??


A passenger onboard the same Northwest Airlines flight that was attacked on Christmas Day was taken into custody in Detroit on Sunday after becoming verbally disruptive upon landing, officials said.


A law enforcement official said the man was Nigerian and had locked himself in the airliner's bathroom. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was ongoing.

Delta Air Lines spokeswoman Susan Elliott said crew members requested that security remove the man from Flight 253 after he became disruptive. The remaining 255 passengers got off safely, she said.

Airport spokesman Scott Wintner said it was the same flight on which a man tried to set off an explosive on Christmas Day.

"The pilot requested emergency assistance upon arrival," he said. Security and airline personnel are on edge since the attempted terror attack on Christmas Day, and the law enforcement official said that lesser incidents had been reported on other flights arriving in Detroit, but the incident with the Nigerian man had sparked the most concern.

 

[over9five]

"Security and airline personnel are on edge..."

Can't imagine why....

 

[toonertoo]

I have never watched an episode of 24. My husband doesnt like any show that is a continuation, it is like a soap opera.
I say waterboard away. If it saves lives, and does not take one, its ok with me.

 

[bbsam]

My boy has been waterboarded several times. He says it is unpleasant but isn't torture.

Man-Cow disagrees.

 

[bbsam]

I have never watched an episode of 24. My husband doesnt like any show that is a continuation, it is like a soap opera.
I say waterboard away. If it saves lives, and does not take one, its ok with me.

Umm. 24 is TV. Soap operas are TV. It's fake. Kinda like Fox News.

 

[toonertoo]

Umm. 24 is TV. Soap operas are TV. It's fake. Kinda like Fox News.

Yes I know its TV, duh, and fox news is not fake. I watch them all and I feel fox news local and global is the most real and informative.

 

[Dis-organized Labor]

Let's not forget the 10+ Transatlantic flights that DID NOT blow up due to good intelligence. Barry didn't do anything but go on vacation.
Liberals have always had a trend towards downsizing the military, cutting surveillance and clandestine activities.

 

[tieguy]

Ronald Reagan did the right thing when he signed the UN convention against torture back in 1988. From his letter to the senate:
From Article 2 of the convention:
Waterboarding is torture, and the US has had no problems labeling it as such when other countries used it. In the aftermath of WW2 we named it specifically as a war crime when we prosecuted the Japanese for it's use..

All that is wonderful when we are playing war games with countries that agreed to the same rules.

The problem is the terrorists did not agree to those rules. Those same terrorists don't really want to fight your countries soldiers as much as they would like to come into your neighborhood and kill your wife and your children. In other words they are intent on fighting a cowards war. Reagan never foresaw 9/11 and I believe he would not have been so kind with these cowards.

if you're going to cater to these cowards then why not march your wife and children over to Afghanistan/pakistan and serve them up. It amounts to the same thing.

 

[Jones]

All that is wonderful when we are playing war games with countries that agreed to the same rules.

Japan didn't follow those rules, and WW2 wasn't a war game.

The problem is the terrorists did not agree to those rules.

It's irrelevant what the terrorists have or have not agreed to, it's a given that they are bad people. How we treat people in our custody is a reflection of us, not them.

Those same terrorists don't really want to fight your countries soldiers as much as they would like to come into your neighborhood and kill your wife and your children. In other words they are intent on fighting a cowards war. Reagan never foresaw 9/11 and I believe he would not have been so kind with these cowards.

Reagan presided over the terrorist bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, and he saw graphic video of our CIA station chief being tortured by Hezbollah. He understood that what we do is about us, not them. It has nothing to do with "being kind to cowards".

 

[av8torntn]

:
It's not about what the kind of people the terrorists are, it's about what kind of people we are. .

I agree with that but water boarding is not torture. Torture is something that causes severe physical pain. By your definition and expanding it to mental distress which seems to be what you are doing you could claim that any prison is torture. Pouring a little water over someones face in no way meets the threshold of something that causes severe physical pain. This guy is even laughing.


[video=youtube;XzU3ybbRL78]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzU3ybbRL78&feature=related[/video]

 

[island1fox]

Napolitano (Homeland Security) said this morning that under Obama, the system worked!!!!

I'd hate to see the results if the system didn't work!!!

That guy should have never been on that plane.......even his own father tried to tip everyone about him.

We have a blind woman heading our security. I'm no where near a plane, thankyou!

moreluck,
I could not agree with you more. The only reason this was not a disaster was the fact the explosive device did not work. Pure luck on our part.
It does not make me feel comfortable when the Head of homeland Security makes such an idiotic statement --The system worked --What Planet is she on ---Then again --According to her boss -there is no war on terroism?????
Also nice for President Obama not to interrupt his Golf game to make a statement to us--I could imagine what would have been said about Bush under the same cicumstances.
Also nice that Obama is "feeling our pain" -not the right message to working and non-working American"s --a two week vacation in Hawaii at over twelve thousand dollars per day ?????

 

[island1fox]

It was pure luck -not the "system " that avoided this disaster.
This person's father is owed an explanation by President Obama on how this incident occurred.
This father --gave up his son --turned him in six months ago --YES--Obama was President.
If I was the father of this terroist --I would want some answers---the American people deserve answers also.
Don't tell me all is now o/k because we cannot stand up on a flight during the last hour ????
President Obama:
1. There is a war going on --whether you know it or not.
2. Your Polical correctness will lead us to disaster.
3. Reading this terroist his Miranda rights and giving him an attorney does not make us good people --just naive.
4. The judge that went to the Hospital of the Terroist and asked him if he was feeling a little bit better ??? Are we all going insane.
5. Incident today --not an incident ??? Pure Coincidence ?? What did diesel say about some pink dancing somethings ????

 

[moreluck]

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab.....the name alone should have raised RED FLAGS !!!