Possible Suspicious Incidents

[moreluck]

I heard he may require skin grafts......too damn bad!!! I hope his burns hurt like hell!!

 

[over9five]

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab.....the name alone should have raised RED FLAGS !!!

Yes, but it's much safer for the TSA people to check Grandma Smith and that cute blonde 6 year old.

 

[Jones]

I agree with that but water boarding is not torture. Torture is something that causes severe physical pain. By your definition and expanding it to mental distress which seems to be what you are doing you could claim that any prison is torture. Pouring a little water over someones face in no way meets the threshold of something that causes severe physical pain. This guy is even laughing.


YouTube- G Man Water Boarding

I'm not coming up with my own definitions, Article 1 of the Convention against Torture defines it in the following way:

For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

Wikipedia defines waterboarding this way:

Waterboarding is a form of torture that consists of immobilizing the victim on his or her back with the head inclined downwards, and then pouring water over the face and into the breathing passages, causing the captive to believe he or she is dying.[1] Forced suffocation and water inhalation cause the subject to experience the sensation of drowning.[2] Waterboarding is considered a form of torture by legal experts,[3][4] politicians, war veterans,[5][6] medical experts in the treatment of torture victims,[7][8] intelligence officials,[9] military judges[10] and human rights organizations.[11][12]
In contrast to submerging the head face-forward in water, waterboarding precipitates an almost immediate gag reflex.[13] While the technique does not inevitably cause lasting physical damage, it can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage or, if uninterrupted, death.[3] Adverse physical consequences can manifest themselves months after the event, while psychological effects can last for years.[7]

The guy in the video is laughing because he's not being tortured, he's just horsing around with his buddies in a situation where has complete control over what's happening to him and he's never in any danger. If he was an actual prisoner who was being waterboarded several times a day against his will over a period of months, he would state unequivocally that he was being tortured, because that's exactly what it is.
John McCain, who actually was tortured, has expressed very clearly that waterboarding is torture. I think he probably knows more about it than those guys in the video.

 

[tieguy]

Japan didn't follow those rules, and WW2 wasn't a war game.

It's irrelevant what the terrorists have or have not agreed to, it's a given that they are bad people. How we treat people in our custody is a reflection of us, not them.
Reagan presided over the terrorist bombing of the Marine barracks in Lebanon, and he saw graphic video of our CIA station chief being tortured by Hezbollah. He understood that what we do is about us, not them. It has nothing to do with "being kind to cowards".

Again Reagan saw an attack against military targets. Not against civilians in the twin towers.

I admire your sense of compassion for terrorists. Will you be flying the family over and making their job easier?

 

[av8torntn]

I'm not coming up with my own definitions.

Neither am I. From dictionary.com.


"the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty."


OK if water boarding were torture and caused severe pain or severe suffering how could someone be laughing at the end? No need to answer as they would not be. It does cause panic and tends to make one desperate. Discomfort, causing a gag reflex, or fooling someone into thinking they are drowning are all a far cry from severe pain and suffering. If I woke up at a heavy d concert I would feel panic and desperation to get out, and it would trigger my gag reflex, but that would not be torture.

Nice of you to bring up John McCain and since I disagree with him on many other things and this also holds no weight with me.

If were were President when we went to war I would not have authorized the use of water boarding not because it is torture like many people on the left falsely claim and as you yourself proved it wasn't by posting the treaty definition but because as a Country we hold ourselves to a higher standard.

 

[Jones]

Neither am I. From dictionary.com.


"the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty."


OK if water boarding were torture and caused severe pain or severe suffering how could someone be laughing at the end? No need to answer as they would not be. It does cause panic and tends to make one desperate. Discomfort, causing a gag reflex, or fooling someone into thinking they are drowning are all a far cry from severe pain and suffering. If I woke up at a heavy d concert I would feel panic and desperation to get out, and it would trigger my gag reflex, but that would not be torture.

Nice of you to bring up John McCain and since I disagree with him on many other things and this also holds no weight with me.

If were were President when we went to war I would not have authorized the use of water boarding not because it is torture like many people on the left falsely claim and as you yourself proved it wasn't by posting the treaty definition but because as a Country we hold ourselves to a higher standard.

We just disagree on this issue.

 

[av8torntn]

We just disagree on this issue.

Of course we do and there should be no surprise there. I watched the video again and they he clearly says there is no pain.

What they did was probably less effective than someone that is trained and it is also different than what I understand is actual water boarding. But it all falls far short in my view than the severe level.

 

[Jones]

Of course we do and there should be no surprise there. I watched the video again and they he clearly says there is no pain.

What they did was probably less effective than someone that is trained and it is also different than what I understand is actual water boarding. But it all falls far short in my view than the severe level.

You might be surprised by how much we agree on

 

[bbsam]

Yes I know its TV, duh, and fox news is not fake. I watch them all and I feel fox news local and global is the most real and informative.

That's the problem. You're feeling. You let the outrage drive your actions and blur your thoughts. The CIA will flat out tell you that waterboarding is torture and that torture is at best an ineffective method of interrogation and at worst time wasting in obtaining false information from the combatant. But that's not what you want to hear, is it? The truth simply doesn't fit into your "War on Terror" tactics. Bummer.

 

[av8torntn]

. The CIA will flat out tell you that waterboarding is torture and that torture is at best an ineffective method of interrogation and at worst time wasting in obtaining false information from the combatant. .

Would you provide a link to an interview with Hayden, Goss, or Tenet on this?

Well go ahead and not bother about Tenet since it is fairly well known that he disagrees with what you just claimed.

 

[tonyexpress]

Boy oh boy they're just coming out of the woodwork now...

The time to test Obama is here...Yemen is the new al-Qaeda frontier!

I guess Joe Liberman is right:

Sen. Joe Lieberman said Sunday that he believes Yemen could be the site of America's next overseas war if Washington does not take preemptive action to root out al-Qaida interests there.


COPS fear that 25 British-born Muslims are plotting to bomb Western airliners.

They are due to return to the UK early in 2010 and will then await internet instructions from al-Qaeda on when to strike.

The source added: "Imams would have promised them rewards in heaven for becoming suicide bombers prepared to kill Westerners."

 

[Babagounj]

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab.....the name alone should have raised RED FLAGS !!!

And now the search is on for the well dressed man who helped him board the flight without a passport.

 

[tourists24]

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab.....the name alone should have raised RED FLAGS !!!

Shame on you for even suggesting this..... isnt this racial profiling?.... oh the horror

 

[diesel96]

Neither am I. From dictionary.com.


"the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty."


OK if water boarding were torture and caused severe pain or severe suffering how could someone be laughing at the end? No need to answer as they would not be. It does cause panic and tends to make one desperate. Discomfort, causing a gag reflex, or fooling someone into thinking they are drowning are all a far cry from severe pain and suffering. If I woke up at a heavy d concert I would feel panic and desperation to get out, and it would trigger my gag reflex, but that would not be torture.

Nice of you to bring up John McCain and since I disagree with him on many other things and this also holds no weight with me.

If were were President when we went to war I would not have authorized the use of water boarding not because it is torture like many people on the left falsely claim and as you yourself proved it wasn't by posting the treaty definition but because as a Country we hold ourselves to a higher standard.

I agree with that but water boarding is not torture. Torture is something that causes severe physical pain. By your definition and expanding it to mental distress which seems to be what you are doing you could claim that any prison is torture. Pouring a little water over someones face in no way meets the threshold of something that causes severe physical pain. This guy is even laughing.

YouTube- G Man Water Boarding

So pouring a little water over someones face is not torture because it doesn't constitute the threshold level of pain define by your dicitionairy.com. Constituted by taking the mental distress factor out of the equation of torture and dummy down this debate to just a question of a pain threshold. AV8, You can't dismiss mental distress from the act of torture, otherwise it's simply breaks down to hazing or training simulation.

Suppose your captured, and you beg the enemy to stop inflicting phyiscal beatings on you. Then enemy says, "Ok" lets play a little game. How bout we play a little game of russian roulette everyday. "We will not lend one hand on you.....After a few days/weeks of near death experiences of blowing your own head off..... the enemy says "New Game"...let's play "decapitation simulation" for our wonderful studio audiences and websites carrying it live around the world on the internet...... And everyday they went as far as the actual act of carrying it out promising one time it will be for real...... Now phyiscal pain was not inflicted in each scenario, yet that doesn't meet your critiria of tortue, eventhough you'll be a mental wreck for the rest of your life if you are released...I think it's time to put down the Tom Clancy "Splinter Cell" novels and seperate us from the enemy...

moreluck,
I could not agree with you more. The only reason this was not a disaster was the fact the explosive device did not work. Pure luck on our part.
It does not make me feel comfortable when the Head of homeland Security makes such an idiotic statement --The system worked --What Planet is she on ---Then again --According to her boss -there is no war on terroism?????
Also nice for President Obama not to interrupt his Golf game to make a statement to us--I could imagine what would have been said about Bush under the same cicumstances.
Also nice that Obama is "feeling our pain" -not the right message to working and non-working American"s --a two week vacation in Hawaii at over twelve thousand dollars per day ?????

Sour grapes

I visited my local Publix last night, and saw fruit I'd never seen before. They were listed as "Sour Grapes" at $1.29 per pound. They look like small champagne grapes, but are spaced further apart. They are green, and sour like a Willy Wonka candy. I ended up pairing them with some sweet fruit.
Does anyone have more knowledge on these types of grapes? Their actual name? Origin? Are they just normal grapes that aren't ripe? Google searches for 'sour grapes' find information on the idiom, but not the fruit.
Maybe I should google American Conservatives......

 

[Jones]

Boy oh boy they're just coming out of the woodwork now...

The time to test Obama is here...Yemen is the new al-Qaeda frontier!

I guess Joe Liberman is right:

Sen. Joe Lieberman said Sunday that he believes Yemen could be the site of America's next overseas war if Washington does not take preemptive action to root out al-Qaida interests there.


COPS fear that 25 British-born Muslims are plotting to bomb Western airliners.

They are due to return to the UK early in 2010 and will then await internet instructions from al-Qaeda on when to strike.

The source added: "Imams would have promised them rewards in heaven for becoming suicide bombers prepared to kill Westerners."

You might want to take that story from The Sun with a grain of salt. I'm just sayin...

Diesel, the definition of torture in the Convention against Torture is the one that the US agreed to. It includes the infliction of mental suffering.
Here's an opinion from someone with a lot of experience.

 

[av8torntn]

...I think it's time to put down the Tom Clancy "Splinter Cell" novels and seperate us from the enemy...

Way to go in true liberal fashion just dismiss everything that I said and try and mock a serious subject. Great job we can now elevate you to the highest levels of liberalism. With no risk of drowning and no physical pain this still does not meet our treaty definition or the Webster definition. Nice try but no cookie for you.

 

[island1fox]

Hey Diesel,
After I ate those sour grapes--I heard the homeland security head now contradicts what SHE said yesterday ---
Yesterday ---THE system worked !!!
Today--------THE system did not work --but realize we INHERITED it from the past administration.
You have been in charge the past year --HELLO!! Man do I feel secure ---put down the Kool aid and pass me more of those sour grapes

P.S. Again I did not make these comments --SHE did.

 

[moreluck]

No airplane trips planned for moi!!!!

 

[toonertoo]

Not that Im paranoid, and there are flights for 58 dollars, based on the economy (ya right), Im not going.

 

[diesel96]

Way to go in true liberal fashion just dismiss everything that I said and try and mock a serious subject. Great job we can now elevate you to the highest levels of liberalism. With no risk of drowning and no physical pain this still does not meet our treaty definition or the Webster definition. Nice try but no cookie for you.

Shame on you for trying to "sugarcoat" waterboarding, suggesting it's on the same plane as friendly military training or a fraternal hazing initiation....now that's mocking! Twisting and spinning definitions of terms to avoid int'l prosecution, now that in itself is the Neo-Conservative Bill Krystal way...


Island,
Let's keep the record straight, Bush and Cheney allowed a terrorist stirke to take place on 9/11 despite many warnings that an attatck was imminent. Col wilkinson and Sec Powell said " The Bush Adm was one of the most incompetent Adm's in History"
Now lets count the number of Americans killed by a forign attack on US soil. Keep enjoying the sour grapes !
Now do the country a favor, if Americans are attack on US soil, Obama haters, try not to cheer so loud...the victims families might hear.