Possible Suspicious Incidents

[wkmac]

Its those little barking dogs

Dumb Dogs

 

[av8torntn]

source

2007' Ohio State study on probability factors of being a victim of a domestic terror attack.

What do they consider as being a victim? Does it include being forced to submit to an ever expanding federal government? Does it include being forced to submit to searches at the airport and standing in lines without any shoes on? I mean everyone in this country seems to be a victim of something. Diesel said he was the victim of the government listening to his phone calls. Does that count?

 

[Jones]

Possibly because that is his main point?


I thought we could apply this to McCain since you brought him up.

"Waterboarding has become a tool of political gotcha that demeans serious discussion of the changing values underlying our operational approach to national security. It is politics, not morality, when senators vote their conscience along overwhelmingly party lines."

Of course this little but important phrase kinda helps drive home that point.

"Picking on one technique is a political maneuver."

You seem to imply that he has a fear of taking a different opinion Nance but I think that is not the case as he says:

"Mr. Nance writes that he personally supervised the waterboarding of "hundreds of people". Nothing like that is going on. Nothing. The CIA has said the number of harsh interrogations is very low, implying a figure of perhaps ten to twenty in five years. The senators on the oversight committees have been briefed for years on the specifics. The Senate chose twice not to pass legislation banning waterboarding. Now they have stirred up a ruckus that forces them to take another vote in order to avoid being called hypocrites."


I did not put this article up here to somehow back my view of the debate. I just thought that someone on here had linked to small wars and found that more interesting than anything. Also I don't see many people on there that can be accused of dancing around an opinion.

Wasn't trying to be combative, sorry if it came off that way. I read the article and just gave my impressions of it. Nance's underlying point was that waterboarding is a form of torture, and since Boot was writing in response I expected him to directly challenge that assertion at some point and was a little surprised when he didn't. I probably shouldn't speculate as to why though, given his premise that the whole thing is being blown out of proportion for political reasons it's entirely possible that he agrees with Nance on that point but just doesn't think it's that important. Like I said, I don't disagree with some of the points he does make.
Small Wars Journal does make for interesting reading.
Coincidentally, Boot wrote a column that ran in the WP yesterday addressing an issue that doesn't get much attention in the main stream press.

 

[tieguy]

YouTube- The Safes - The Sky Is Falling

YouTube- Porky Pig Cartoon Ending "That's All Folks!"

A common tactic of the smug to mock those that recognize that we are not that far removed from the terrorist threat.

I'm afraid you sometimes spend so much time seeking the wisdom of the extreme wack jobs that you struggle with the opinions of normal people.

Though I was touched by your efforts to step away from mocking us all to seeking the praise of a few posters here. Feeling a little lonely lately or did the three spirits visit you over the christmas holiday?

Let me tie it all together so that even you may be able to understand my points:

a) we will never win the war against terror until we are able to fight it on their level.

b) Those who speak of dictating more honorable terms in fighting the terrorists are setting theirselves and their countrymen up to be victims of terrorism.

Now I don't mind If you and others want to serve yourself up to be victims but the fact remains that your mocking anyone who recognizes the terrorists threat with the sky is falling mockery undermines our security.
Once we decide we will limit our options in fighting the threat we set ourselves up for failure. The terrorist will not reward you or jonesy for demanding humane treatment for them. They will consider you and your wife and your children viable targets regardless.

People get to a point where they will stop pointing out any unusual behaviors they observe. This thread started based on a couple of incidents that appear to have not been terrorist related. It now deals with a real attempt.

In any case I like you're new attitude whether out of loneliness or induced by the three spirits. I realize its much easier for you to sit back and mock everyone else that actually has the guts to take a position but you might find it more worthwhile to actually become part of the process rather then a dedicated sniper.

 

[tieguy]

In any case after a good 7 years string it now appears we had our first terrorist attack. Luckily the bomber was incompetent and burned himself rather then causing a plane crash on christmas day.

wkmac I wonder how the people on that plane would have felt about the odds you posted if they had gone down.

I think the problem here is we tend to relax our vigillance when we don't have anything happen. The terrorist are playing a patient game waiting for any opportunity.

Following the logic of some I suppose we should wait until the odds of a terrorist induced attack moves up the list before we start getting concerned.

 

[moreluck]

We the people and the first line of defense against terrorism in our country......

something needs re-written !!

 

[diesel96]

Diesel,
You and others continue to live in the past--one of the major problems of our country.

Sometimes we have to look at the past to put things in perspective.
Many Americans feel we can do no wrong, many Americans feel our actions of the past has no bearring of where we find ourselves today. They are so naive. Rev Wright may have issues, but one thing he was dead on was, "blowback"...so go head, call us sleepy with blinders on for preaching self examination....but understand why Lady Liberty, the symbol of freedom, is really being attacked.

There is a certain smugnesses with this discussion that comes from being able to sit back with a feeling of confidence that you and those you hold near and dear will not be threatened by the terrorist. If for instance the terrorist were in your neigborhood and picking off your neighbors then your answers would be different. You would not care how an AV8 eliminates that threat to you and your family as long as it is eliminated. But instead you folks think you're somehow removed from the threat so you think its ok to mock those who realize the threat is real and you look down your nose with indignation at those who would propose we fight those spineless cowards on their level.

I have no qualms on this issue and I will not be two faced in response. Those cowards need to recieve what they dish out. Nothing less.

What's smug is those telling us how we should be so grateful of wireless wiretaps, extra long security lines, controversial torture tactics and our brave troops increased exposure to deadly military warfare as a result of our Gov't's foreign policy. And BTW, why are you talking down to us as if others here in BC have no military ties. You are not the only authority to speak on this subject.

Again you demonstrated my point.I don't need marine generals to tell me what my position will be. You would not feel the same way if those same terrorists were in your neighborhood threatening your family with their decidly heinous means of warfare.

You would not feel the same way if the torture of those terrorist was the only thing keeping you fromfinding and releasing your family from their grasps.

My position is consistent yours will change depending on the events.

Your position is purely speculation and conjecture......not to mention a paraniod imagination...

Kindly explain to me what you mean I am just not following what you are saying here. I do not know about the fraternal hazing and I did not bring up the fact that certain members of our military do this in training.

AV8....You can not substitute the X factor in reallife torture. The X factor being the mental unrest of not knowing the outcome of torture is life or death, determined by the enemy.
In training, although challenging and insanely tough, the outcome generally results in the comfort of knowing you'll live to see another day.

Good points. Unfortunately we are hell and bent and determined to apply archery rules to wrestling and thus we will never win the war against terror. I guess we can console ourselves in the fact that we play by a different set of rules each time the terrorists takes out our women and children.

Winning the "War on Terror" is merely a bumper sticker slogan. We have, and currently are blasting the crap out of extremist overseas (along with some innocense) but no matter how many radicals we eliminate, hate will just simmer, and reload as long as we are over there.....

What do they consider as being a victim? Does it include being forced to submit to an ever expanding federal government? Does it include being forced to submit to searches at the airport and standing in lines without any shoes on? I mean everyone in this country seems to be a victim of something. Diesel said he was the victim of the government listening to his phone calls. Does that count?

Does it include not being able use a blanket or your laptop computer on an airplane on the last hour of your flight. The Terrorist have won when we resort to that crap...

 

[tieguy]

Sometimes we have to look at the past to put things in perspective.
Many Americans feel we can do no wrong, many Americans feel our actions of the past has no bearring of where we find ourselves today. They are so naive. Rev Wright may have issues, but one thing he was dead on was, "blowback"...so go head, call us sleepy with blinders on for preaching self examination....but understand why Lady Liberty, the symbol of freedom, is really being attacked.

There are people like you that use the "sometimes" line to promote a hatred of your own country. You're quoting of Reverend Wrong automatically discredits your argument. Our crime is we became the greatest country in the world and thus became a target for every power hating idiot in the world. Some attack us from the outside , some attack us from within your argument included.

 

[tieguy]

What's smug is those telling us how we should be so grateful of wireless wiretaps, extra long security lines, controversial torture tactics and our brave troops increased exposure to deadly military warfare as a result of our Gov't's foreign policy. And BTW, why are you talking down to us as if others here in BC have no military ties. You are not the only authority to speak on this subject.

I did not realize I was supposed to shut up because I am not the only one to speak on it.
There is a good chance that all those wiretaps helped keep us safe the last eight years.

I don't see your president eliminating any of bushs practices in fact he appears to be adopting those practices. Must be something to them.

I realize you probably want to believe that 9/11 is our fault but thats your hate trip. Personally I think you should take your family and go bond with the terrorist you love so much.

Your position is purely speculation and conjecture......not to mention a paraniod imagination...

Ok and you see an end to the terrorist threat doing it your way when? Your president has bowed to every lesser leader in the world and yet we still have terrorist attacking us. what happened? Am I supposed to believe that the 23 year old nigerian that attacked us is getting revenge for something Nixon did? Pleeeasse give me a break that stuff may sound good at the weekly communist hate this country meetings but it does not hold water in the real world.

AV8....You can not substitute the X factor in reallife torture. The X factor being the mental unrest of not knowing the outcome of torture is life or death, determined by the enemy.
In training, although challenging and insanely tough, the outcome generally results in the comfort of knowing you'll live to see another day.

Thats the idea sherlock, get them sweating bullets in fear so they tell you about the next terrorist attack planned that will wipe out your family.

Winning the "War on Terror" is merely a bumper sticker slogan. We have, and currently are blasting the crap out of extremist overseas (along with some innocense) but no matter how many radicals we eliminate, hate will just simmer, and reload as long as we are over there.....

Honestly if you and the other country haters would stop alibing the terrorists actions and stop undermining our efforts then we could probably win this thing pretty quickly. Why don't you guys take a vacation to Pakistan and let us get a handle on this thing.

Does it include not being able use a blanket or your laptop computer on an airplane on the last hour of your flight. The Terrorist have won when we resort to that crap...

I don't know why you're complaining I'm sure somehow its all our faults.

 

[tieguy]

Diesel your blaming the country and defense of the terrorists has me thinking back to your previous defense of Michael Moores love affair with cuban hospitals:

An American Carol - Free Health Care

 

[av8torntn]

AV8....You can not substitute the X factor in reallife torture. The X factor being the mental unrest of not knowing the outcome of torture is life or death, determined by the enemy.
In training, although challenging and insanely tough, the outcome generally results in the comfort of knowing you'll live to see another day.

I hate to be the one to break it to you but some of those terrorists have know the end result for them was death for some time. They even take comfort in that knowledge.

 

[av8torntn]

Coincidentally, Boot wrote a column that ran in the WP yesterday addressing an issue that doesn't get much attention in the main stream press.

I am fairly surprised that this has not also become a political issue here. It is not uncommon to go on a joint raid with local forces. It is also not unlikely for the local forces, police or military, to detain someone. After reading about the political firestorm in little America it is hard to believe that hasn't come here yet. It would not be a large stretch to be accused for political gain of turning over detainees to the locals who have different standards than we do. I would be much more willing to call those conditions torture than an American run cell where someone was threatened with water boarding.

 

[island1fox]

I recently read a post quoting the Rev. Wright " The chickens have come home to roost" ??? Have we really sunk this low --I am truly starting to believe we will in fact "fall" from within.
Why not quote Martin Luther King or John friend. Kennedy. To quote a person who claims to be religious but is overflowing with vile and hatred. A man who lives the "rich"and famous lifestyle in a multi million dollar house.As Sammy Sosa would say "Baseball and America have been veery very good to me "
Should we also quote the Hateful American Nazis or the vile KKK or maybe even the Black Panthers or any dopey white supremist hate group ??? Is this really where you want to be - yes YOU ??
It always amazes me --while not perfect --Many American's speak of their country as the most evil in History ??
The most charitable Nation in History --Both through foreign aid --our taxes --we worked so hard for --- or the many non government American people and organizations that do so much to comfort the sorrows of this cruel world.Earthquake or sunami -the US is always there --Muslim or non .
Through history we have freed millions and millions of people with our blood and treasure -with little thanks --but much hatred and jealousy toward us. This also includes millions of Muslims --Yes the great Satan has helped Muslims !!!
Our freedoms and economic success has us dependant upon foreign oil --we buy it. It heats our homes ,runs our factories-or planes,cars and motorcycles !!
This dependancy would be lessoned greatly with drilling at home -using our natural resouces -oil and gas as well as developing state of the art nuclear facilities. But of course the radical environmental nuts prevent this from happening. In some case --California to save a two inch smelt --forty thousand people have been put out of work over water ???? A 60 minutes news episode.
The chickens have come home to roost --tells me that Wright and obviously some Americans think AlQaida has "just cause" --- if we follow that train of thought --they must be disappointed when the terroist fails ???? I am sure that will cause a reaction --but realize what you are saying. Just cause = Just actions
We have had working relationships with dictators ---that makes us evil --we have taken out dictators --that makes us evil ??
We are only the consumer --we buy their product!
The Arab shieks with their palaces and gold toilets oppress thier own people.
If Bin Laden flew planes into the Saudi Palace ---Maybe I could see just cause !!!
If we ask the Christmas day terroist about the wrongs America has done through history --of course he will not answer anything --he has a lawyer ? But he would answer "I was taught America is the Great Satan --I do not know why ---But if I martyr myself --I will get 72 virgins "?????

Yes, the chickens have come home to roost !! We keep buying oil to keep those DIESELS running !!!
Did I just quote Wright --Shame ,shame shame on me.

 

[pickup]

I recently read a post quoting the Rev. Wright " The chickens have come home to roost" ??? Have we really sunk this low --I am truly starting to believe we will in fact "fall" from within.
Why not quote Martin Luther King or John friend. Kennedy. To quote a person who claims to be religious but is overflowing with vile and hatred. A man who lives the "rich"and famous lifestyle in a multi million dollar house.As Sammy Sosa would say "Baseball and America have been veery very good to me "
Should we also quote the Hateful American Nazis or the vile KKK or maybe even the Black Panthers or any dopey white supremist hate group ??? Is this really where you want to be - yes YOU ??
It always amazes me --while not perfect --Many American's speak of their country as the most evil in History ??
The most charitable Nation in History --Both through foreign aid --our taxes --we worked so hard for --- or the many non government American people and organizations that do so much to comfort the sorrows of this cruel world.Earthquake or sunami -the US is always there --Muslim or non .
Through history we have freed millions and millions of people with our blood and treasure -with little thanks --but much hatred and jealousy toward us. This also includes millions of Muslims --Yes the great Satan has helped Muslims !!!
Our freedoms and economic success has us dependant upon foreign oil --we buy it. It heats our homes ,runs our factories-or planes,cars and motorcycles !!
This dependancy would be lessoned greatly with drilling at home -using our natural resouces -oil and gas as well as developing state of the art nuclear facilities. But of course the radical environmental nuts prevent this from happening. In some case --California to save a two inch smelt --forty thousand people have been put out of work over water ???? A 60 minutes news episode.
The chickens have come home to roost --tells me that Wright and obviously some Americans think AlQaida has "just cause" --- if we follow that train of thought --they must be disappointed when the terroist fails ???? I am sure that will cause a reaction --but realize what you are saying. Just cause = Just actions
We have had working relationships with dictators ---that makes us evil --we have taken out dictators --that makes us evil ??
We are only the consumer --we buy their product!
The Arab shieks with their palaces and gold toilets oppress thier own people.
If Bin Laden flew planes into the Saudi Palace ---Maybe I could see just cause !!!
If we ask the Christmas day terroist about the wrongs America has done through history --of course he will not answer anything --he has a lawyer ? But he would answer "I was taught America is the Great Satan --I do not know why ---But if I martyr myself --I will get 72 virgins "?????

Yes, the chickens have come home to roost !! We keep buying oil to keep those DIESELS running !!!
Did I just quote Wright --Shame ,shame shame on me.

I thought it was Malcom X who said "chickens coming home to roost" in response to one of the Kennedys being assasinated.

And it was (I believe) Chico Escuela, a character played by Garrett Morris on Saturday Night Live in the late 70s that said "Baseball has been very, very good to me!"

 

[tieguy]

malcolm X did as well as reverend wrong

FOX Lies!! Irresponsible Media! Barack Obama Pastor Wright

 

[Lue C Fur]

If you search Youtube you can find more video of Rev. Wrong's hate towards America and also of whites. He spews hatred...but Obama never heard him say anything bad for all the years he worshiped at his church. I think Obama called him his "spirtual mentor".

 

[pickup]

malcolm X did as well as reverend wrong

YouTube- FOX Lies!! Irresponsible Media! Barack Obama Pastor Wright

Thanks, tie, I bow to your superior wisdom.

I watched the video with horror. How can a grown man go around wearing a mu mu dress?

 

[tieguy]

Thanks, tie, I bow to your superior wisdom.

I watched the video with horror. How can a grown man go around wearing a mu mu dress?

I never understood it. It would be comparable to me wearing lederhosen or a pointy hun helmet to celebrate my german ethnicity.
A fashion nightmare no doubt.

 

[Babagounj]

If its true about barry claiming not to a follower of rev. wright anymore, then why has he not picked another church to attend in DC ?
Makes one wonder.

 

[moreluck]

We didn't get THE BOMBER, but we got IVANA TRUMP.....got her off the plane just in time....whew!!