Raise in new contract

[Memester]

The counter by UPS is the lowest of low balls. In a negotiation, you always ask for more than you think you can get. IBT should have been asking for $100/hr for FT and $75/hr for pt.

If you ask for what you want, you only negotiate down from there. If real, UPS made the offer with the expectation that 1) it would not be public and 2) it would be roundly rejected. But, it would give them the best starting position they think they can get.


Don’t be offended or upset by it. It’a business, not personal. Don’t vote yes on anything less than you think you deserve. Stand strong for a great contract and don’t get distracted by the bs

 

[Trucker Clock]

The counter by UPS is the lowest of low balls. In a negotiation, you always ask for more than you think you can get. IBT should have been asking for $100/hr for FT and $75/hr for pt.

If you ask for what you want, you only negotiate down from there. If real, UPS made the offer with the expectation that 1) it would not be public and 2) it would be roundly rejected. But, it would give them the best starting position they think they can get.


Don’t be offended or upset by it. It’a business, not personal. Don’t vote yes on anything less than you think you deserve. Stand strong for a great contract and don’t get distracted by the bs

Exactly how negotiations work. O'Brien did go big. He said this was the richest or biggest economic package in labor history. My guess is that he went "big" so UPS went then went "small." Some people don't understand that.

I agree that UPS maybe went a little too small, but they know they will have to come up. The meet somewhere in between is the number for both sides to agree on.

 

[Bubblehead]

This company could pay us $100 an hour and still make the same profit.

Your whole post fell to pieces with this declaration.

 

[Memester]

Exactly how negotiations work. O'Brien did go big. He said this was the richest or biggest economic package in labor history. My guess is that he went "big" so UPS went then went "small." Some people don't understand that.

I agree that UPS maybe went a little too small, but they know they will have to come up. The meet somewhere in between is the number for both sides to agree on.

Exactly. IBT did the right thing by walking away.

Upsers need not get too riled up over the first counter offer. If this was july 25th instead of June 25 and that was the ups offer, absolutely. Get ticked off and start drawing the picket line.

 

[9.5mania]

I would never ask that question...everybody thinks they will be (Outed), even worst if you list your local.

Paranoid runs deep especially if you have been treated like a three legged dog for most of your tenure.

The only ones that have (actively) participated on B/C over the years are the (TWO Percenters) with high seniority or have already left the buildings (retired)..that includes our management folks...

The tinfoil around my head means nothing!!!

 

[BigUnionGuy]

I would never ask that question...everybody thinks they will be (Outed), even worst if you list your local.

He's a 25 year package driver in the Atlantic ready to retire.

Not trying to "out" him.

I would just think.... he would have the guts.... instead of talking smack about people he doesn't know.

UPS never will be a 9-5 job. Some routes are, the heavy industrial routes that need to get the pick up volume back, but the majority are 8.5 to 9.5 hours.

Yep.

 

[Bubblehead]

The counter by UPS is the lowest of low balls. In a negotiation, you always ask for more than you think you can get. IBT should have been asking for $100/hr for FT and $75/hr for pt.

If you ask for what you want, you only negotiate down from there. If real, UPS made the offer with the expectation that 1) it would not be public and 2) it would be roundly rejected. But, it would give them the best starting position they think they can get.


Don’t be offended or upset by it. It’a business, not personal. Don’t vote yes on anything less than you think you deserve. Stand strong for a great contract and don’t get distracted by the bs

We don't know what the Union's proposal was, and quite frankly we don't truly know definitively what the Company's counter was.

I have seen three different versions of the supposed Company counter, at least two presumably photoshopped or conjured on someone's home computer.

Now we have all these armchair negotiators chiming in, which is the best example of why these day to day details need to stay with the Committee and its Chair, with only the TA's released to the membership when prudent.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Your whole post fell to pieces with this declaration.

Well, he went from $50 august 1, to $100 quickly.

 

[Thebrownblob]

We don't know what the Union's proposal was, and quite frankly we don't truly know definitively what the Company's counter was.

I have seen three different versions of the supposed Company counter, at least two presumably photoshopped or conjured on someone's home computer.

Now we have all these armchair negotiators chiming in, which is the best example of why these day to day details need to stay with the Committee and its Chair, with only the TA's released to the membership when prudent.

Everyone just needs to…

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

We don't know what the Union's proposal was, and quite frankly we don't truly know definitively what the Company's counter was.

I have seen three different versions of the supposed Company counter, at least two presumably photoshopped or conjured on someone's home computer.

Now we have all these armchair negotiators chiming in, which is the best example of why these day to day details need to stay with the Committee and its Chair, with only the TA's released to the membership when prudent.

O'Brien himself said he was asking for a lot

 

[Trucker Clock]

I would just think.... he would have the guts.... instead of talking smack about people he doesn't know.

 

[charm299]

O'Brien himself said he was asking for a lot

Define “a lot”

 

[BigUnionGuy]

We don't know what the Union's proposal was, and quite frankly we don't truly know definitively what the Company's counter was.

Yep.

Now we have all these armchair negotiators chiming in, which is the best example of why these day to day details need to stay with the Committee and its Chair, with only the TA's released to the membership when prudent.

And that's the way it should be.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Define “a lot”

I don't know. That 8s what he said on the current video

 

[Just A UPS Guy]

ABF made 290 million profit in 2022 and members got a $3.50 raise first year and a $6.50 over life of contract. We made UPS 13b profit last year. We made UPS almost 45x more $ than ABF. I have repeated myself several times on this thread, usually to much sarcasm by the members how out of bounds I am thinking we deserve a 18-20 raise by the end of the contract. I believe that most here are unaware of how little we are paid compared to the profits we make this company.

Where you and a few others get into the weeds is by not looking at things relatively, you have to compare apples to apples. You're right, ABF made $290M and their workers got $6.50 over the life if the contract. If you take those numbers and compare directly, they have 8,600 workers, we have 340,000.
340 ÷ 8.6 = 39.535
8.6k workers made $290M, and we have about 39.5 for every one of theirs. Take they're $290M and break it down per employee.
290,000,000 ÷ 8,600 = $33,720.93 profit per employee.
$33,720.93 × 340,000 = $11.465B
$13.2B ÷ $11.465B = 1.1426% more profit per employee.

$6.50 raise directly correlated...

$6.50 × 1.1426 = $7.427 in raises.




This is your comparison, and this is how you math it.


That said, I'd like to see at least $8.50 which is +/- 20%

 

[Trucker Clock]

Where you and a few others get into the weeds is by not looking at things relatively, you have to compare apples to apples. You're right, ABF made $290M and their workers got $6.50 over the life if the contract. If you take those numbers and compare directly, they have 8,600 workers, we have 340,000.
340 ÷ 8.6 = 39.535
8.6k workers made $290M, and we have about 39.5 for every one of theirs. Take they're $290M and break it down per employee.
290,000,000 ÷ 8,600 = $33,720.93 profit per employee.
$33,720.93 × 340,000 = $11.465B
$13.2B ÷ $11.465B = 1.1426% more profit per employee.

$6.50 raise directly correlated...

$6.50 × 1.1426 = $7.427 in raises.




This is your comparison, and this is how you math it.


That said, I'd like to see at least $8.50 which is +/- 20%

He was never good at math, or just plain doesn’t know how to do math. He just pulls numbers out of thin air.

I mean, he did say that UPS could pay us $100/hr and still make the same profit. Clueless.

 

[RangerMan06]

0

no way man…cut out non union jobs…close customer counter, close security dept., eliminate driver sups and replace with PT, cut out bonus, end MIP, eliminate 401k match, raise management retirement age to 70, raise shipping cost, eliminate rain bags (cite environmental concerns), cut out OMS, there are so many ways this company burns through money it isn’t even funny. Bottom line….I don’t care how they do it, but trust me, they will.View attachment 434624

Do away with morning PCMs. Would save millions

 

[Bubblehead]

no way man…cut out non union jobs…close customer counter, close security dept., eliminate driver sups and replace with PT, cut out bonus, end MIP, eliminate 401k match, raise management retirement age to 70, raise shipping cost, eliminate rain bags (cite environmental concerns), cut out OMS, there are so many ways this company burns through money it isn’t even funny. Bottom line….I don’t care how they do it, but trust me, they will.

Do away with morning PCMs. Would save millions

 

[DOK]

The counter by UPS is the lowest of low balls. In a negotiation, you always ask for more than you think you can get. IBT should have been asking for $100/hr for FT and $75/hr for pt.

If you ask for what you want, you only negotiate down from there. If real, UPS made the offer with the expectation that 1) it would not be public and 2) it would be roundly rejected. But, it would give them the best starting position they think they can get.


Don’t be offended or upset by it. It’a business, not personal. Don’t vote yes on anything less than you think you deserve. Stand strong for a great contract and don’t get distracted by the bs

Or the company knew their offer would get leaked making any forthcoming offer look like they really came through and moved toward the union proposal.

 

[MostHelpNeeded]

Since we're doing maths here, I'll throw this in.

For simplicity sake, let's just say all 340,000 employees were full time

340,000 employees x immediate $10/hr raise = $3,400,000/hr

$3,400,000/hr X 2080 hours/year = $7,072,000,0000

Or roughly 1.1 Billion less than they spent on stock buybacks last year.

In other words, the company could easily afford to give EVERYONE a $10/hr raise right off the bat, spend all the other money they do, still do 1.1 billion in buybacks, and still keep their 13 billion in profit.

Not saying it's going to happen, just urging to stop looking at only profit and dividing that by employees to get feasibility of payroll. I can't say it enough, it's not about profit it's about allocation of income.

We ALL deserve a bigger piece of the 100 Billion+ pie