refuse to sign?

[over9five]

Hmmm.... Im sure most of our shareholders won't take the time to take a management position at UPS so they can change things. Its plain Wall St isn't impressed with us either, but I don't see them taking any management UPS jobs either.
I'm looking for the same thing they are. A change at the top... The very top.

 

[teddyr]

I can't understand why anybody would want to reduce their quality of life to become a mgr. Our ctr. manager just up and left two days ago after many years of service with the company. Rumor has it he didn't even put in two weeks notice. Our HR guy left a month ago, put in his two weeks notice and was dismissed immediately. You would have to be a glutton for punishment to want to deal with the stress from upper mgt. on top of difficult union employees.

 

[ja7618]

When my husband started with UPS 27 yrs ago, just out of college, his on road supervisor told him on the first day out that at management was not necessarily a step up with UPS! Some things never change. So today he is still a driver and so glad.

 

[proups]

speeddemon: "Now thier is an ignorant statement of the month. And No, I dont have time to elaborate."

You must not have time to spell check, either.

You really should elaborate. If my statement, a quote from another post in this thread is "an ignorate statement of the month", then you must take the time to spread your infinite wisdom among those of us with a lower IQ.....

 

[ja7618]

proups, be careful about questioning ones spelling because you mispelled their and used the wrong word it should be there not thier!!!!!

 

[ok2bclever]

JA, actually since Proups was quoting Speed he is correct to leave it "thier".

However, he misquoted him when he said he said "ignorate" as Speed spelled that correctly and Pro was the one who should have used a spell checker.

Most of us make the occasional spelling mistakes and incorrect grammar, but I would agree one criticizing someone else on the subject certainly should be especially careful not to blow it himself in the same breath.

Regarding management misusing company resources I certainly disagree that the only recourse is become one or shut up though.

 

[moreluck]

ok:
"JA, actually since Proups was quoting Speed he is correct to leave it "thier". "

WHAT!!!!!!! no such thing as THIER!!

 

[ok2bclever]

moreluck, if you are quoting someone and you change what they said that is misquoting someone.

 

[ok2bclever]

Ok, back to management surfing at the office.

I think Corporate Lesson #4 is appropriate for this discussion:

Corporate Lesson #4

A crow was sitting on a tree, doing nothing all day. A small rabbit saw the crow and asked him, "Can I also sit like you and do nothing all day long?" The crow answered: "Sure, why not?"

So, the rabbit sat on the ground below the crow and rested. All of a sudden a fox appeared, jumped on the rabbit and ate it.


Moral of the story: To be sitting and doing nothing, you must be sitting very, very high up.

 

[moreluck]

ok: I copied and pasted from your post

 

[susiedriver]

ok2bc,
I agree with you on 'corp lesson #4'.

Unfortunately, methinks that the posters, at least on this board, who post during work hours and on a company computer using company bandwidth, are probably not very high up; at least I would assume so, judging from the content and language of their posts. I can only hope that the company that I have most of my investments in is not being run by dumb & dumber.

 

[proups]

IGNORATE": I was merely trying to show my inferiority to speeddemon.....

 

[markbell]

I can only hope that the company that I have most of my investments in is not being run by dumb & dumber.

Well, they evidently hired you at some point. I wonder, did that make them very smart or very dumb?

 

[ok2bclever]

more, me too, proups too, what's your point?

proups, nice cover.

 

[moreluck]

In the immortal words of Gilda Radner's Roseanne Roseanna Danna....."nevermind".

 

[susiedriver]

markbell,
They hired you as well, so what would you say?

 

[proups]

ok2: thanks! You got me....

 

[abbear]

Please excuse for for coming to the party late and also if I cover something that has already been discussed. I scanned the whole discussion and have some experience as a steward with this so here's my two cents.

Under labor law unless your contract specifically states that you don't have to sign something that when mgmt places a form in front of you you should sign it and write 'under protest' if you feel it necessary. To do otherwise has been ruled insubordination and can cause you a lot a trouble. Remember the rule of thumb - unless it is expressly illegal follow the instruction and file a grievance.

There are some important exceptions to the above. Safety is always first. But when we had management try and have us sign a form indicating their take on our min/max stop count and acceptable stops per hour I immediately called the union business agent, advised him that the company was trying to negotiate conditions of work with individuals as opposed to the union, and was told as steward to advise all employees not to sign these forms on counsel of the BA, he immediately called the center manager and threatened him with grievances, and the center manager tucked his tail between his legs and backed way off.

This is pretty well covered under article 6, section 1 of the national master agreement and is what I used when speaking with both the BA and management. Recognize that your local supplement may have wording that supplements this.

Bottom line - if it is discipline or training or DR certification and such - sign it and grieve later. If they are trying to negotiate work rules - refer them to your local's Business Agent.

Hope this helps.

 

[tieguy]

The signing of the form documents that a review of the form took place. Its a strange twist because most employees would agree that they want to know what is kept in their employee file. The union would agree the employee has a right to know what is in their file. Yet when you attempt to have them sign something acknowledging a document going in their file has been reviewed with them then they are supposed to sign that they are signing this acknowlegment "under protest".

 

[ok2bclever]

Sign first, grieve later may be a policy for certain areas, but is not the best policy nation wide.

In my area management just notates, "refused to sign" and the date on any form that an employee doesn't legally have to sign and that is the end of it.

No big deal.

I would not sign a form you disagree with unless your area has done a poor job of negotiating and you are subject to discipline for not signing.

Most legal forms are designed to discourage dishonesty and tampering by being in duplicate.

You sign the forms IF you agree with them (not just that you have read them, normally) and you are given a copy to keep.

This keeps a disreputable individual or organization from "changing" or "adding" anything onto the form that you have put your signature on.

Not so with the myriad things UPS wishes you to sign.

They are always single sheets that once you have signed are vulnerable to tampering by any less than honorable individual and you don't have any way to prove whether something was changed or added AFTER your signature.

Further, the signature line never states that your signature is strictly an acknowledgement of review.

Normally, your signature on a document would mean you agree with the document in it's entirety or you wouldn't sign it.

I don't agree with signing any document, UPS or otherwise unless you are in full agreement with what is on the document.

And I would certainly demand an identical copy of the signed form at the time of the signing anywhere but UPS.

Demanding things at UPS could leave you open to discipline.

Not signing a form reviewed with you isn't any sort of "get out of jail free" card though and it won't save you from discipline if you screw up or violate a UPS policy realize.

You do have the right to see your Pittsburgh, or employee file and have a written dispute inserted into it of anything you find in there that you disagree with, at least under my area contract.

(Message edited by ok2bclever on May 21, 2005)