Exactly. Science works until it doesn't with a constant search for understanding.
Religion does the exact same thing. You don't really think that at age 47 my faith remains the same as when I was 9 do you?
Religion
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Religion does the exact same thing. You don't really think that at age 47 my faith remains the same as when I was 9 do you?
What? I feel like we're having two different conversations. Again, your citations did not suggest that science relies on faith. The first one suggested that people can use science in the same way believers use religion - for comfort.
And, as I've already said, if science can be said to rely on any leap of faith, it's simply the assumption that our observations correspond to reality, and that testing predictive theories against those observations is a good way to gain knowledge. Do you have a framework with more predictive power than science?
(Speaking in tongues doesn't count).
Also, where have I tried to explain away anything? We don't have a perfect understanding of the universe - that's a simple fact that you won't find me contradicting.
No, the models work (incredibly well) until they don't. Science is simply a means for gaining knowledge, not a theory. And it has contributed immensely to our understanding of the universe, and continues to.
Is your faith going to lead us to a quantum theory of gravity? Not trying to belittle your faith, if it works for you so be it, but it's not even remotely similar to science. It's quite the opposite.
No, it doesn't. Believing something will happen because of countless prior examples is not faith.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm suggesting. Do not confuse personal growth with a practical, physical understanding of the world. By what mechanism does religion refine our understanding of the world?
You've already admitted that science relies on faith but I think that word repulsed you so much that you won't admit it.
Science is limited. Nothing wrong with that and GPS works great regardless what happens in a black hole.
But I've never tried to use religion to direct my travels across the state or heal a tumor or launch a rocket.
But I've never used the theory of relativity to mend a broken family relationship or a biological dissertation to celebrate the life of a dead loved one.
For you, perhaps it doesn't.
To me it refines our understanding of other people and cultures and interactions that take place. I understand Ramadan because even though it isn't a Christian practice, the principals it is aimed at are not foreign to Christianity.
It refines me internally at the level of understanding another's emotions and how they and I react to them. Do my emotions dictate behavior? Does resentment cloud my judgement? Am I driven by greed or luster or hatred? Have I ever been disappointed when selflessly giving of myself? If I believe that through grace (and grace alone) I have been forgiven, how can I not forgive those who have wronged me?
No. It does not "feel good". Cocaine, alcohol, women...that felt good. That felt REALLY GOOD. Selfishness, self-centeredness, that felt good but was killing me.
I've decided to live.
That's silly. Why would religious faith lead to quantum theory of gravity? I have never suggested anything like that. In fact, I have stated time and time again that religion and science are not at odds and that one does not diminish the other. Why do you try to insist otherwise?
newfie
Well-Known Member
Poor thing. You have so much shoved into that small little box that is your world when in fact the reality is life and people are vastly more diverse and interesting. But you resort to the collective thinking and group think and then pigeon hole everything into that box and hold on for dear life while life itself passes you by.
But if you don't mind, I won't pray for you as doing so would just compound the problem, seems to me.
And just too blast a crack in your box, one of my daughters is a music director for a church, a position she sought and I fully supported her and still do. I'm proud of her and what she has accomplished with her music training. My wife of 36 years is also a christian, one of which I support and encourage and I never try and convince her otherwise of her beliefs and yet we have good conversations about religion and even the contradictions and she'll also be the first to tell you that atheists can in fact be moral just as she'll tell you christians can be immoral. Thus the false argument that morality comes from religion or as previous stated, should I expect the "No True Scotsman" fallacy?
My youngest daughter had a friend wanting to talk to me about being an atheist and when I inquired deeper about the "why" of his interest, I discovered he had gone to a church that told him that his tattoos were evil and against god. The atheism was a means of self serving and not about self discovery. I told him I would talk to him about atheism only on the grounds that he visit more churches, read the bible for himself and even explore other ideas of religious belief and faiths. Then in about 20 years when he hit his 40's and had time to explore the experience of life itself, we might then have a conversation about atheism/agnostism.
And I also don't object to voluntary public prayer which I consider an action of free thought and free association, in this very thread Jones and I disagreed on this issue of public voluntary prayer (and not that he didn't have legit concerns either), nor do I get worked up about Nativity scenes or other religious trappings as cultural displays. But that's me.
Now please continue with your purely subjective ramblings about your vast knowledge of all things atheist and the small little box atheists exist in.
BTW and not that I haven't stated this before: If god is a noun, I'm an atheist. If god is a verb, we're having a very different conversation.
I'll pray for you
newfie
Well-Known Member
tell that to the atheist that preach like its a religion.
newfie
Well-Known Member
Judging by the number of posts you have provided on this subject as a johnney come lately it appears you are making a sincere effort at proving your self wrong on this point.
newfie
Well-Known Member
Christians often get slammed for providing similar explanations to explain the phrasing of the bible
newfie
Well-Known Member
theories are not a part of science?
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Religion doesn't say why, religion says stop asking.
Absolutely not. A lot of people do stop asking and wonder why their 15 year old's faith seems so lacking at age 45. Keep asking.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
So the bible museum in my city that explains the world is 10,000 years old and humans walked the earth with dinosaurs.....
If that's not religion saying stop asking, I don't know what is.
noam chomsky and chris hedges dont believe in god. chris hedges studied divinity at harvard. this devout muslim at my work has interested me in traditional religion again (i personally believe in the message behind star wars and the matrix), so i looked it up, and chris said something like its a way of letting the go of the mind constantly wondering about death.
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