Required to sign

[RockyRogue]

I think you hit the key point a steward should be present to validate the talk with. The assumption made is signing the document admits guilt. The purpose of signing is acknowledge the form was reviewed with the individual. Someone refusing to sign the document shows they are being uncoperative with management and has helped to show they have a general practice of being uncooperative.

I agree, Tie. Signing something is accepting responsibility. I've been written up once in my various stints with UPS. I signed the writeup (I missorted an NDA on a service test). I didn't like being written up but I wasn't going to refuse to sign it since I did know I'd made a mistake. I considered the writeup reasonable, accurate and in accordance with company policy, so I signed it. There was no steward involved, either. My sup and I handled the writeup situation as adults. Refusing to sign reasonable writeups such as mine supports Tie's point: RTS'ing EVERYTHING management puts in front of you suggests a complete lack of cooperation. I sign the safety observations and the package handling audits management does on us. The safety observations I consider a personnel file item. The handling audits also measure PPH and placement (split tranverses...any other hubs have these?) and demonstrate how hard I'm working, so I sign them. There'll be a time where they do a handling audit on me, giving me a very low score because I'm getting beaten up. I'll refuse to sign that, telling the auditer, "This is insulting. I ain't signing!" I told an LP guy in Chicago a couple years ago, "Audit the rest of these sorters and come back if ya still want me to sign this sheet." No more insulting handling audits. -Rocky

 

[neverskiplunch]

Don't sign S$#%! Stand up and earn respect people! You are human beings! Supervisors are no smarter or better than you! Demand respect and make them sign something.

 

[Cole]

You don't have to sign anything, but if they do instruct you you can opt to sign and write, "signed under protest", also by the contract it does state that you are not necessarily in agreement with what is written, but that the contents have been reviewd with you. You don't have to sign either way.

 

[rapidrandall]

I don't sign anything because I don't fully trust management. Before anyone blasts me as uncoperative let me tell you that some forms that were signed were later changed by management. This was a long time ago and that person is long gone, but I still don't sign.

 

[rocket88]

Signed or refused to sign its all the same. Shows the document was reviewed with the employee. In some cases the refused to sign shows the employee is uncooperative with management and could hurt his case at the panel.

Signed or refused to sign all the same. Hmmm... Why then does mgt. get sooo totally bent out of shape and escalate the situation when you refuse to sign. If it truly doesn't make any difference, then why all the hostility when the employee opts not to sign something?

 

[tieguy]

Signed or refused to sign all the same. Hmmm... Why then does mgt. get sooo totally bent out of shape and escalate the situation when you refuse to sign. If it truly doesn't make any difference, then why all the hostility when the employee opts not to sign something?

Thats a no brainer. For all intents and purposes you just took your johnson out and wizzed on all his hard work. You called him out. You challenged his authority and decision making. Lets be honest here. There might be a reason the sup is writing you up. While there is a chance you understand the law and legalities and are exercising your constitutional rights theres also a good chance you're po'd because the sup selected you for reprimmand and missed the other guy who was playing hoops with a box full of fragile glass. So you retaliate by saying "you want me to do what? I ain't signing thaaaaaat!"
We all have a hard time accepting responsibility for our mistakes. Many sups have a hard time dealing with the refuse to sign response. Egos at play in both cases.

 

[rocket88]

Thats a no brainer. For all intents and purposes you just took your johnson out and wizzed on all his hard work. You called him out. You challenged his authority and decision making. Lets be honest here. There might be a reason the sup is writing you up. While there is a chance you understand the law and legalities and are exercising your constitutional rights theres also a good chance you're po'd because the sup selected you for reprimmand and missed the other guy who was playing hoops with a box full of fragile glass. So you retaliate by saying "you want me to do what? I ain't signing thaaaaaat!"
We all have a hard time accepting responsibility for our mistakes. Many sups have a hard time dealing with the refuse to sign response. Egos at play in both cases.

You are framing it in the sense that everyone one of these is discipline. It is not. I am a full time driver. 21 years of service. I don't sign anything except those that are required by law. I don't sign the driver release form certification because it is vague and outright contridictory. I also don't sign the paper that the ctr. mgr. wants me to sign after a injury stating that a "promise to use all proper safe work methods at all times and failure to do so may lead to further action." Things of that nature. Same for the sheet of paper stating that I will perform to a certain SPORH or will work to reduce my overallow.
Yes Tie, let's be honest here. Are you really saying that I should never challenge his authority or decision making. Is that what you are saying? I don't go out of my way to cause trouble or be a thorn in anyone's side. I try to pick and choose fights very carefully. None of us are perfect, especially me.
Is it really a no brainer? Again if it truley makes no difference and CHANNON seems to have the inside track on this.... If it really makes no difference and that letter or sheet or whatever is going in my file and is going to be presented to a panel and my refusal to sign is only hurting me, then why on earth does the supe "lose it" if I decline? I understand the ego part, but still the question begs. If it really doesn't matter if I sign it and I am going to get my comuppance in the end, why does the supe or mgr. fly into a rage over this?

 

[tieguy]

You are framing it in the sense that everyone one of these is discipline. It is not. I am a full time driver. 21 years of service. I don't sign anything except those that are required by law. I don't sign the driver release form certification because it is vague and outright contridictory. I also don't sign the paper that the ctr. mgr. wants me to sign after a injury stating that a "promise to use all proper safe work methods at all times and failure to do so may lead to further action." Things of that nature. Same for the sheet of paper stating that I will perform to a certain SPORH or will work to reduce my overallow.
Yes Tie, let's be honest here. Are you really saying that I should never challenge his authority or decision making. Is that what you are saying? I don't go out of my way to cause trouble or be a thorn in anyone's side. I try to pick and choose fights very carefully. None of us are perfect, especially me.
Is it really a no brainer? Again if it truley makes no difference and CHANNON seems to have the inside track on this.... If it really makes no difference and that letter or sheet or whatever is going in my file and is going to be presented to a panel and my refusal to sign is only hurting me, then why on earth does the supe "lose it" if I decline? I understand the ego part, but still the question begs. If it really doesn't matter if I sign it and I am going to get my comuppance in the end, why does the supe or mgr. fly into a rage over this?

I can't say I disagree with you.