Retiring with APWA

[Cole]

I thought I would add there is also a COLA in the APWA pension plan, and also what has been paid to CS on your behalf should be yours. Of course it will take a major lawsuit to get it no doubt.

Look there's no doubt if the APWA wins they will have to hit the ground running, because UPS is no lilly when it comes to negotiating, and dealing with management -union relations. .

If they don't win we need to get 705 red's local Pres. to get a slate together, and run against Hoffa lite. (Not joking either)

 

[705red]

You my friend would need to contact Ripleys!

Jsut go to their website and see for yourself.

 

[krash]

I thought I would add there is also a COLA in the APWA pension plan, and also what has been paid to CS on your behalf should be yours. Of course it will take a major lawsuit to get it no doubt.

Look there's no doubt if the APWA wins they will have to hit the ground running, because UPS is no lilly when it comes to negotiating, and dealing with management -union relations. .

If they don't win we need to get 705 red's local Pres. to get a slate together, and run against Hoffa lite. (Not joking either)

Cole,
You appear to be the most sensible APWA leaning individual here. Now, I find it hard to believe an organization is promising everything under the sun and no one questions the validity. Does this not strike you as to good to be true. These claims that "with what UPS pays in we could get 7k(?) a month after 30 years". What about insurance? Isn't the amount UPS pays into CS also go toward our insurance, not retirement alone. Now is the mighty APWA going to ask for a separate contribution for insurance. Well, I'm straying from what I really want to get to. OK, UPS is "BIG". Now if you were gonna start such an adventure as APWA, why go for the whole kit and caboodle all at once? My goodness, they are also trying to organize UPSF at the same time. Talk about too much on your plate at once. Why not go after there respective hubs first and bring to the masses the contract that they claim they will get. Heck, I could even see them going for as much as the state of NC but not the whole country. That way you can grow from there and work out the bugs. But this idea of all at once is a disaster waiting to happen and if they are successful in getting enough nationwide(in my lifetime), chaos, confusion and repercussions is sure to follow. We are talking about getting people in place nation wide to handle grievances and protect the members during the transition phase. Heck, we have trouble getting stewards now. I seriously doubt they will live up to there propaganda nor that they will succeed in getting enough to follow them. But I fear the day that they are able to achieve the total decertification. I will be seeking employment elsewhere if they do.
Some have mentioned they have 22 states(?). Well why not go ahead and get those out now to show the validity behind the claim? Allspin claims UPS would still have to recognize the current contract even though we'd no longer be Teamsters. So what's to loose? I do not believe they are out to re-organize us after a decert. I honestly believe they are out to rid UPS of organized labor. Then they will weed out the most die hard unionist which will put enough fear in the rest that they will not stand up to rejoin the Teamsters or any other Union. They will all fall in line so as not to loose there job. There is too many signs to believe other wise.
Thanks for your time Cole and the level headiness you show in your post. Although we may disagree, I respect the way you present yourself.

 

[Cole]

Cole,
You appear to be the most sensible APWA leaning individual here. Now, I find it hard to believe an organization is promising everything under the sun and no one questions the validity. Does this not strike you as to good to be true. These claims that "with what UPS pays in we could get 7k(?) a month after 30 years". What about insurance? Isn't the amount UPS pays into CS also go toward our insurance, not retirement alone. Now is the mighty APWA going to ask for a separate contribution for insurance. Well, I'm straying from what I really want to get to. OK, UPS is "BIG". Now if you were gonna start such an adventure as APWA, why go for the whole kit and caboodle all at once?

Because to my understanding UPS must be under a single bargaining agent, so you can't just have a portion of it. The insurance issue you mentioned is a point of concern somewhat, but then again look at the part-timers, they have better insurance than most of us. The issue I have is someone did mention that Van said if UPS would give the insurance deal that they get in Ohio, he may let them handle that end, but I can't say he said that for sure. I just think all facts from every angle should be looked at.

My goodness, they are also trying to organize UPSF at the same time. Talk about too much on your plate at once. Why not go after there respective hubs first and bring to the masses the contract that they claim they will get. Heck, I could even see them going for as much as the state of NC but not the whole country. That way you can grow from there and work out the bugs. But this idea of all at once is a disaster waiting to happen and if they are successful in getting enough nationwide(in my lifetime), chaos, confusion and repercussions is sure to follow. We are talking about getting people in place nation wide to handle grievances and protect the members during the transition phase. Heck, we have trouble getting stewards now. I seriously doubt they will live up to there propaganda nor that they will succeed in getting enough to follow them. But I fear the day that they are able to achieve the total decertification. I will be seeking employment elsewhere if they do.

Again from my understanding it must be a single bargaining agent, so it's all or none. As far as the propaganda, to me personally at first it seemed like a mere pipedream, but now that we know the mechanics under the machinists union have a substantially superior pension than us in the Teamsters, I can see more the pension can be done.

Honestly you should call them and have a meeting, and bring all your questions and don't be bashful about asking the hard questions. It can be done respectfully, but ask what you want, because it is a huge step, and dangerous as well

Some have mentioned they have 22 states(?). Well why not go ahead and get those out now to show the validity behind the claim? Allspin claims UPS would still have to recognize the current contract even though we'd no longer be Teamsters. So what's to loose? I do not believe they are out to re-organize us after a decert. I honestly believe they are out to rid UPS of organized labor. Then they will weed out the most die hard unionist which will put enough fear in the rest that they will not stand up to rejoin the Teamsters or any other Union. They will all fall in line so as not to loose there job. There is too many signs to believe other wise.
Thanks for your time Cole and the level headiness you show in your post. Although we may disagree, I respect the way you present yourself.

One Van was very clear when we met with him that you can't work at UPS w/out a union, and of course we all know that. It's simply not a ma and pop operation. As far as why they don't release the info, I can only speculate that due to some of the connections to organized crime etc...there is alot of danger in coming out and basically giving ammo to those that would want to start the intimidation process, and let's not forget that there is alot of collusion with the company and union now in some areas and it's not unreasonable to believe that they could be putting people's jobs at risk.

I can understand your thoughts about weeding out etc...they will have elections, and nothing guarantees anyone a job in the APWA that I know of. Founding charter members will have the right to vote out officers by a 2/3's majority.

My personal concern is Van and Danny's experience in union affairs, because if they think UPS will roll over like a submissive puppy because the Teamsters are out (hypothetically), then they're being na'ive. I hope they are having the pro-union atty's going over everything Coleman does, because we all know how slippery some atty's can be.

Nospin and some of you others, please let us know about some of these issues, and I will get info too.

I read about the status quo that nospin wrote about and I believe he's being truthful, because we go through the same thing when our contract expires, and we're still negotiating so we stay under the old, until the new is ratified.

With CS in bad shape like it is, how can they not expect the members to react like they are, especially in light of the history at CS? How can anyone save face with the effected members, and speak up for the Teamsters? The pension has awoken people I never heard complain about anything, and the end result will be massive withdrawals, and or the company asking for total control of the pension, and getting it. Some may think that is a good idea, but I sure don't.

I appreciate your kind words to me, and I have learned to listen to people over the years rather than just cram my views on them. You have to earn respect before you get it, and everyone's opinion should matter.

 

[krash]

Because to my understanding UPS must be under a single bargaining agent, so you can't just have a portion of it.

Well if that was true, why would there be some mechanics under the Machinist Union? Or the pilots under IPA? As someone else pointed out, not all of UPS is in CS. So if APWA is waiting for everyone to join in, it'll never happen. So if there serious about "the good of the members", they better cut back on how much they want to go after. And worry about UPSF after they've taken care of what part (if any) of UPS does decide to join.
Now the UPS Master Agreement is with the Teamsters, not with APWA. Not 100% sure, but I believe there is language that says this contract will stay intact after expiration while they are bargaining.
As far as organized crime, that is in the past. Although APWA would like everyone to believe otherwise. They have to have a boogy man to scare the members there way. With as much Government oversight, do you really think the "mafia" would have a chance to sneak back in? Not saying there couldn't be attempts or small occurrences. But it's not as widespread as one would lead you to believe. With an organization this big, your gonna have a bad egg here and there. If APWA does succeed, they'll to have the same problems as with any organization.
Anyhow, take care my friend. And don't let that "alien" drown

 

[Cole]

Good points about the mechanics, and pilots, and I'll try to find out about that. As far as the mafia, who says they're not still entrenched? Ed Stier Hoffa Jr's handpicked anit-corruption guy resigned because Hoffa was interferring with his investigations into organzed crime etc...


LOL The alien wont drown, but his owner might. I gotta tell you that's the funniest thing to see.

If the pic doesn't show up of the "alien" just click the link.

 

[krash]

I believe with as much Government oversight it would extremely difficult. As far as Steir, some have different views on that situation. I feel it was a waste of money to employ him since we already had the Government doing the same job.

 

[Bill]

I dont endorse the apwa, i endorse electing another upser to the ibt to fix it.

what is the point to electing another person to run the IBT? the Teamsters are still obligated to pay benefits to employees of other companies who are contributing little or nothing. The pension ( in Central States) is in critical status, that it can not possibly get fixed, and in a few years, the pension fund is doomed. See the thread on "Is the pension fund about to go under." The only way to correct our situation is to have a union that represents only UPS people. The UPS pilots broke away from the Teamsters (they were smarter than us) and now they have their own union, better wages and benefits, and security.

 

[Bill]

As a whole we are and you know it. Thats not to say we have good union upsers, but the problem is alot of upsers only care about being union when it benefits themselves. How many upsers do you know that attempt to make thyeir own side deals? Why dont you answer the hard questions about your apwa pension, dues, how much will van and danny get paid?

Take a look at what Hoffa earns ( The Center for Union Facts ) and check out the list of his cronies that earn big salaries for doing nothing. Look at all the waste of money that the Teamsters do with the money that is destined to be for UPS employees.

 

[Bill]

1eye, did the teamsters take your good eye to? Remember the teamsters are the incumbent, in order to oust them you need to start explaining the positives of the apwa. But instead of answering the questions you would rather dodge them and call names. The teamsters might not be perfect, but you know what to expect, the apwa on the other hand all we see are these outrages claims with no proof. Prove them.

Here is what you can expect from the Teamsters. They claim they have many years of experience negotiating contracts, but when it comes time to win a solid contract, we are sold out. The contracts only benefit the Teamster union, and not the hard working employees of UPS. Let's take the "best contract ever". Sure they got a $5 raise over the 6 year contract, but after adjusting for inflation, we are actually worse off than in 2002, but the Teamsters union was happy as they were able to increase union dues as your salary went up. Benefits were cut to the point where we now pay higher deductibles, higher co-pays, and had our pension future accruals) slashed in half. Once again, I ask the question: How are we better off with the Teamsters? What are they actually doing for us that doesn't benefit themselves? Why do they expect us to work until the age of 65 (CS), when they can retire without restrictions and receive the hefty pension set aside for themselves?

 

[705red]

what is the point to electing another person to run the IBT? the Teamsters are still obligated to pay benefits to employees of other companies who are contributing little or nothing. The pension ( in Central States) is in critical status, that it can not possibly get fixed, and in a few years, the pension fund is doomed. See the thread on "Is the pension fund about to go under." The only way to correct our situation is to have a union that represents only UPS people. The UPS pilots broke away from the Teamsters (they were smarter than us) and now they have their own union, better wages and benefits, and security.

E79 how will the apwa better the cs pension now? The ups pilots arent the only ones in that union, it was already established and proven. I understand your frustration but the apwa is not the answer!

 

[705red]

Take a look at what Hoffa earns ( The Center for Union Facts ) and check out the list of his cronies that earn big salaries for doing nothing. Look at all the waste of money that the Teamsters do with the money that is destined to be for UPS employees.

Yes your right but im asking because the apwa says dues will only be $34 a month, thats nowhere near enough to run a union. Look at the over all picture of all the unions and see where hoffa falls in it you might be surprised to see that many other union officials make alot mor than jimmy jr.

 

[705red]

Here is what you can expect from the Teamsters. They claim they have many years of experience negotiating contracts, but when it comes time to win a solid contract, we are sold out. The contracts only benefit the Teamster union, and not the hard working employees of UPS. Let's take the "best contract ever". Sure they got a $5 raise over the 6 year contract, but after adjusting for inflation, we are actually worse off than in 2002, but the Teamsters union was happy as they were able to increase union dues as your salary went up. Benefits were cut to the point where we now pay higher deductibles, higher co-pays, and had our pension future accruals) slashed in half. Once again, I ask the question: How are we better off with the Teamsters? What are they actually doing for us that doesn't benefit themselves? Why do they expect us to work until the age of 65 (CS), when they can retire without restrictions and receive the hefty pension set aside for themselves?

Aparently your just a miserable soul, i dont think anything would ever make you happy! When you want to stop spewing bs than come back with some valid points, and a solid plan, till then go get a friend$$ing tissue and quit your rambling.

 

[Bill]

Yes your right but im asking because the apwa says dues will only be $34 a month, thats nowhere near enough to run a union. Look at the over all picture of all the unions and see where hoffa falls inot it you might be surprised to see that many other union officials make alot mor than jimmy jr.

The APWA will not have the overhead and the huge payroll that the Teamsters currently have. They will represent only UPS employees, thus they will need fewer administrative people.

 

[705red]

The APWA will not have the overhead and the huge payroll that the Teamsters currently have. They will represent only UPS employees, thus they will need fewer administrative people.

How spread out are all the barns, what are we taling about at least 1 union headquarters in every state, you do the math. Unless of course ups will give us the office space to save on our union leased office space. Wake up.

 

[Bill]

Aparently your just a miserable soul, i dont think anything would ever make you happy! When you want to stop spewing bs than come back with some valid points, and a solid plan, till then go get a friend$$ing tissue and quit your rambling.

I am not a miserable soul as you say, but I have given the facts as they are. I even tell you where you can find the numbers, but you would rather not check it out for yourself. The truth hurts, and that is why you come back with your lame answers, because you have nothing to back up your Teamster poopaganda. (I know the word is propaganda, but that is exactly what comes out of your mouth.)
Also, I would like to know what you claim is bs. I could list for you the bs that the Teamster are telling their members. Not all of us believe that any longer. The Teamster lies are getting old.

 

[Bill]

E79 how will the apwa better the cs pension now? The ups pilots arent the only ones in that union, it was already established and proven. I understand your frustration but the apwa is not the answer!

"What don't you understand? The pension plan under Central States is in critical condition (this is from the central states annual report) and can not dig itself out of this hole. Why don't you call central states and get yourself a copy. You won't do this, because you are afraid of the truth. Keep believing the lies that the Teamsters keep feeding you without asking any questions.

 

[Bill]

How spread out are all the barns, what are we taling about at least 1 union headquarters in every state, you do the math. Unless of course ups will give us the office space to save on our union leased office space. Wake up.

Maybe the APWA will take over the Teamster locations. They are not going to need them any longer!!!!!!

 

[705red]

"What don't you understand? The pension plan under Central States is in critical condition (this is from the central states annual report) and can not dig itself out of this hole. Why don't you call central states and get yourself a copy. You won't do this, because you are afraid of the truth. Keep believing the lies that the Teamsters keep feeding you without asking any questions.

HOW WILL THE APWA FIX IT?

 

[Bill]

E79 how will the apwa better the cs pension now? The ups pilots arent the only ones in that union, it was already established and proven. I understand your frustration but the apwa is not the answer!

HEY red. Are you a business agent afraid that if the APWA takes over, you will lose your job and fantastic pension that the Teamsters provide to you, while we are losing our pension. For your information, the UPS pilots broke away from the Teamsters and started their own union (IPA). They are no longer get ripped off by the Teamsters. They have better pension and wages now than the Teamsters ever negotiated for them.