Right or Left --All American's add to this list------Loss of freedoms. Danger !!!
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moreluck
golden ticket member
Because you asked......
The issue of the contraception and the catholic church is nothing more than a gimmick by the right wing in pure desperation. The GOP has lost their message and it hopes to pin its future on the rally for religious freedoms.
Depsite the fact that the majority of catholic women Polled shows they support the presidents position, the right wing wants to distort the issue and try to make inways with catholic voters. Unfortunately, the right wing cant have both sides of the argument and win.
They have to "chose" a side and stay on that side.
If the right wing wants to claim that women who are catholics should be denied contraception of any kind because the church wants to protect its future flock and income, then they also have to accept that hispanic women are mostly catholics and if they pop out 5 or 7 kids and end up on welfare or the taxpayers dime, then thats what "they" protected with their actions.
The right wing can no longer complain when a catholic woman has 5 kids on welfare because she "excersized" her religious freedoms protected by the republican party. No longer can they complain that catholic women have too many kids.
Or, the right wing can understand that todays catholic women are becoming more progressive and are accepting that smaller families are the better way of life and they need the assistance of todays medicine to make that possible.
Hispanics are assimilating into society and losing the belief that all pregnancies are the work of GOD. The Catholic church, whos only interest is in sustaining itself with followers and money, has used women to make that possible for hundreds of years.
With hunger, poverty, homelessness, overpopulation, unemployment, over crowded schools and crime, hispanic catholics are changing their belief systems. This I know. I am both a hispanic and catholic.
Its time to drop the notion, that the president is trying to FORCE catholics to use contraception, because its SOCIETY that is forcing them to make changes. If a religious based hospital or doctor takes taxpayer money to run a business, then it better comply with the rules for SOCIETY.
If you want to really break this down, if you can agree that abortion should reduced or eliminated, then you would also have to understand that you have to change "mindsets" of women who use nothing in the form of protection and allow them to recieve counseling and medical aid in order to make that happen even if its a catholic insurance policy.
Peace.
TOS
Depsite the fact that the majority of catholic women Polled shows they support the presidents position, the right wing wants to distort the issue and try to make inways with catholic voters. Unfortunately, the right wing cant have both sides of the argument and win.
They have to "chose" a side and stay on that side.
If the right wing wants to claim that women who are catholics should be denied contraception of any kind because the church wants to protect its future flock and income, then they also have to accept that hispanic women are mostly catholics and if they pop out 5 or 7 kids and end up on welfare or the taxpayers dime, then thats what "they" protected with their actions.
The right wing can no longer complain when a catholic woman has 5 kids on welfare because she "excersized" her religious freedoms protected by the republican party. No longer can they complain that catholic women have too many kids.
Or, the right wing can understand that todays catholic women are becoming more progressive and are accepting that smaller families are the better way of life and they need the assistance of todays medicine to make that possible.
Hispanics are assimilating into society and losing the belief that all pregnancies are the work of GOD. The Catholic church, whos only interest is in sustaining itself with followers and money, has used women to make that possible for hundreds of years.
With hunger, poverty, homelessness, overpopulation, unemployment, over crowded schools and crime, hispanic catholics are changing their belief systems. This I know. I am both a hispanic and catholic.
Its time to drop the notion, that the president is trying to FORCE catholics to use contraception, because its SOCIETY that is forcing them to make changes. If a religious based hospital or doctor takes taxpayer money to run a business, then it better comply with the rules for SOCIETY.
If you want to really break this down, if you can agree that abortion should reduced or eliminated, then you would also have to understand that you have to change "mindsets" of women who use nothing in the form of protection and allow them to recieve counseling and medical aid in order to make that happen even if its a catholic insurance policy.
Peace.
TOS
Get a kennell!!
Obama has allowed an exemption for churches. Religious hospitals and universities will have to offer birth control to its employees which is only right because not all of these employees share their employer's beliefs,. Remember no one is mandating that these employers actually pay for birth control: employees pay into insurance with the money that is withheld from their paychecks!!
But no lets leave it up to a couple of celibate (??) bishops whose only agenda is their opposition TO SEX!!
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moreluck
golden ticket member
Only the churches have the exemption. What about Notre Dame ? St. Joseph's Hospital? The employees can go to clinics, or Planned Parenthood or any doctor of their choice and can get all the birth control they want.....nobody is denying them.
The Catholic Church is NOT PAYING FOR IT because it's against their beliefs.
This isn't about Birth Control. This isn't about Women's Health. This is where the misunderstanding lies.
You've got Barbara Boxer out there saying the Catholic Church wants to kill women....she's an idiot as is Pelosi.
Obama has reneged on what he told a now to be cardinal back in November. Your post still shows you think the problem is birth control.......it is NOT!!
moreluck
golden ticket member
The Obama administration pushes a requirement that forces religious organizations, including Catholic hospitals, to pay for health insurance covering contraceptives for employees.
"This is not about health care, this is not about women's healthcare, this is about the overreach of government. This is about President Obama having control over every aspect of your life, especially for women, from conception to death."
"This is not about health care, this is not about women's healthcare, this is about the overreach of government. This is about President Obama having control over every aspect of your life, especially for women, from conception to death."
More, or is it ms luck,
This is all about birth control. Actually it is about control of women's lives. Did you hear the bishops spokeman say "we consider birth control an elective drug. Married women can practice periodic abstinance. Other women can abstain altogether. Not having sex doesnt make you sick." BINGO: this is not about religious "conscience"; it is about controlling women's lives!!
This is all about birth control. Actually it is about control of women's lives. Did you hear the bishops spokeman say "we consider birth control an elective drug. Married women can practice periodic abstinance. Other women can abstain altogether. Not having sex doesnt make you sick." BINGO: this is not about religious "conscience"; it is about controlling women's lives!!
How to Fake a Firestorm
by Steve M.
Wed Feb 8th, 2012 at 11:56:53 AM EST
The New York Times:
It's a firestorm, I think, because the American political elite teems with high-profile right-wing Catholics -- among them converts such as Newt Gingrich, Robert Bork, Sam Brownback, Laura Ingraham, Lawrence Kudlow, and Ramesh Ponnuru. There's been a concerted effort in recent years to win influential wingers over to the Catholic Church (Father John McCloskey, a prime mover in this effort, was described in a 2002 Slate article as "The Catholic Church's K Street lobbyist"); the effort seems to be the political equivalent of Scientology's focus on converting famous entertainers.
When you combine all these wingnut Catholic converts with birth Catholics who are prominent right-wingers (William Bennett, Scalia/Thomas/Roberts), you get a Catholic-winger noise machine that can convey the sense within the Beltway that Catholics believe a certain thing when, in fact, only prominent right-wing Catholic pols and pundits believe it in great numbers. This is a great mechanism for fooling easily spooked non-right-wing Catholics such as Cokie Roberts and E.J. Dionne -- both of whom have engaged in fretful hand-wringing about the terrible political misjudgment President Obama has allegedly made. Well, it really does looks like a terrible decision -- if the only Catholics you encounter regularly are your Georgetown cocktail party pals.
by Steve M.
Wed Feb 8th, 2012 at 11:56:53 AM EST
The New York Times:
WASHINGTON -- Facing vocal opposition from religious leaders and an escalating political fight, the White House sought on Tuesday to ease mounting objections to a new administration rule that would require health insurance plans -- including those offered by Catholic universities and charities -- to offer birth control to women free of charge....
Please note that this is an "escalating political fight" even though polls show that clear majorities of Americans -- and Catholics -- support birth control coverage. The leadership of the Catholic Church is peeved, but rank-and-file Catholics aren't. So why is this a firestorm?It's a firestorm, I think, because the American political elite teems with high-profile right-wing Catholics -- among them converts such as Newt Gingrich, Robert Bork, Sam Brownback, Laura Ingraham, Lawrence Kudlow, and Ramesh Ponnuru. There's been a concerted effort in recent years to win influential wingers over to the Catholic Church (Father John McCloskey, a prime mover in this effort, was described in a 2002 Slate article as "The Catholic Church's K Street lobbyist"); the effort seems to be the political equivalent of Scientology's focus on converting famous entertainers.
When you combine all these wingnut Catholic converts with birth Catholics who are prominent right-wingers (William Bennett, Scalia/Thomas/Roberts), you get a Catholic-winger noise machine that can convey the sense within the Beltway that Catholics believe a certain thing when, in fact, only prominent right-wing Catholic pols and pundits believe it in great numbers. This is a great mechanism for fooling easily spooked non-right-wing Catholics such as Cokie Roberts and E.J. Dionne -- both of whom have engaged in fretful hand-wringing about the terrible political misjudgment President Obama has allegedly made. Well, it really does looks like a terrible decision -- if the only Catholics you encounter regularly are your Georgetown cocktail party pals.
People like Olympia Snowe even said all health care plans should cover birth control. Plus 27 states already mandate it and 8 do not exempt churhes!!
Many Catholic Universities, Hospitals Already Cover Contraception In Their Health Insurance Plans | ThinkProgress
Many Catholic Universities, Hospitals Already Cover Contraception In Their Health Insurance Plans | ThinkProgress
I don't think Obama has alot to worry with about this. As 804 pointed out, yes the Catholic leadership will be up in arms, but Catholic parishoners have been at odds with it's leadership over dogmatic decrees for decades. And it's hard not to hold one's nose at the piety of the Church hierarchy that hid the abuse of children for decades as well. So if people don't vote for Obama, it won't be because the government told their health insurance they had to pay for rubbers and diaphragms. When you boil it down to the bedroom level, I think most Catholics will shrug their shoulders and enjoy the recreation of procreation.
moreluck
golden ticket member
This is a constitutional issue, not a social issue. If the "above" is what you want it to be about, then that's your choice.
Even John Kerry says the policy needs at the very least a conscience clause.
Biden (I guess they found which closet he was hiding in) seems to think they'll get this all ironed out.
I think there's been some major damage done as far as Obama's chances of getting any religious votes. Even if he totally manages to appease religious, his true colors have been seen by many.
There is no shortage of birth control in this country. Planned Parenthood passes it out like candy. Any woman anywhere can get it. Any woman anywhere can take it. This isn't about using birth control.
The religious schools & hospitals are not going to provide it because it's against what they believe in.
moreluck
golden ticket member
So what would you call it when prayer starts tomorrow in public schools?????
Don't say separation of church & state, because that's what I've been trying to tell you.....Obama cannot overreach in church matters and that's what his edict/decree does!!.
moreluck
golden ticket member
That's where I think you're wrong. I haven't been to church in many, many years.....yet I'm pissed as hell at the arrogance of Obama thinking he can try to make a religion go against their core beliefs.
brown bomber
brown bomber
Babagounj
Strength through joy
You are pissed at everything about Obama. And go back to church. Someone on these forums defending the faith sould know what they are talking about.
So, practicing their religion means denying people birth control?? Again churches, etc have been exempted. We are only speaking about hospitals and universities. What if part of their "religious conscience" meant not not teaching or doing surgery on gay people or black people. That too is ok??
menotyou
bella amicizia
Having the right to birth control does not mean you have to receive said birth control. If your beliefs are of the view that taking it is against God's word, then don't. But, if you want to use it, that is between you and God. It is none of my business.
The church does not control what, if any, birth control I use. Why should they be allowed to dictate what others use?
That is why this is not a church matter.
The church does not control what, if any, birth control I use. Why should they be allowed to dictate what others use?
That is why this is not a church matter.
moreluck
golden ticket member
It's not about birth control!! I don't know how else to say it.
IE: Every single employee at Notre Dame can take birth control......nobody cares! Just know that it's against the core belief the Catholic church that they're not gonna give it to you. You'll have to get it elsewhere...free clinic, Planned Parenthood, etc.
It's funny, years ago UPS's plan would not cover birth control pills each month, but they would cover tens of thousand of dollars paying for births.......sometimes troubled ones that were extremely costly (NICU) That didn't make economic sense to me.
IE: Every single employee at Notre Dame can take birth control......nobody cares! Just know that it's against the core belief the Catholic church that they're not gonna give it to you. You'll have to get it elsewhere...free clinic, Planned Parenthood, etc.
It's funny, years ago UPS's plan would not cover birth control pills each month, but they would cover tens of thousand of dollars paying for births.......sometimes troubled ones that were extremely costly (NICU) That didn't make economic sense to me.
