WHAT I AM

[diesel96]

when you call cousin Fred.

I personally think that nobody cares about what you say to your aunt Jenny.

Uncle fester and Aunt Jemima? odd reference.

Just responding to AV8's odd references......Come on Tieguy, keep up! I know it's hard for you to read more than a couple of sentences at a time before ADD kicks in

Were that to happen they would have to employ a third grader to translate.

Lets compare McCain's GPA, test scores and education level to that of Obama, shall we? Or did they not keep school records back in the "old school" days.

 

[av8torntn]

Lets compare McCain's GPA, test scores and education level to that of Obama, shall we? Or did they not keep school records back in the "old school" days.

Ok then on one side you have a graduate of one of our service academies and military veteran running for commander in chief against a Harvard lawyer and author during a time of war.

 

[diesel96]

Ok then on one side you have a graduate of one of our service academies and military veteran running for commander in chief against a Harvard lawyer and author during a time of war.

They didn't have professors at the Hanoi' Hilton.....did they?

Oh...did I forget to mention.....Obama taught Constitutional Law at the Univ of Chicago......something this administration needs to go back to school and retake.

 

[av8torntn]

Oh...did I forget to mention.....Obama taught Constitutional Law at the Univ of Chicago......something this administration needs to go back to school and retake.

Ok so the choice to you is a graduate of one of our service academies and military veteran vs a teacher? I don't have a dog in this fight but I find it hard to believe that during a time of war this is the way you want to frame your candidate.

 

[Jones]

Ok so the choice to you is a graduate of one of our service academies and military veteran vs a teacher? I don't have a dog in this fight but I find it hard to believe that during a time of war this is the way you want to frame your candidate.

I'm not sure that it's particularly relevant whether or not the CinC went to a military academy. Many of our wartime presidents had civilian backrounds and most did a decent enough job depending on their military advisors.
Lincoln and FDR are widely considered to be our most successful wartime presidents and neither one had any military experience prior to being elected. Bush went to Yale, I don't know whether that helped him or not.

 

[av8torntn]

I'm not sure that it's particularly relevant whether or not the CinC went to a military academy. Many of our wartime presidents had civilian backrounds and most did a decent enough job depending on their military advisors.
Lincoln and FDR are widely considered to be our most successful wartime presidents and neither one had any military experience prior to being elected. Bush went to Yale, I don't know whether that helped him or not.

I agree. The problem is that I did not bring that up. This is a common recurring tactic with the DNC of which diesel seems to be a mouthpiece. They alway try to make it look like their opponent is uneducated or somehow made it through school only because of family connections. This tactic has already failed them twice. My view is that you must be very intelligent and motivated to gain a major party nomination for the president. I may not agree with either one and I have a general dislike for attorneys but that does not mean that I do not think either one are intelligent and successful politicians. I do however have a problem with FDR. I think that most of the things I dislike about the Federal government started with him and his new deal. Maybe it is just a Harvard thing with Nobama and FDR. As far as both men go I think most people understand that they made huge wartime mistakes as do all presidents. This is a very interesting election cycle. On one side so far we have a candidate that took a European vacation and saw his poll numbers go down so his handlers hid him in Hawaii. On the other side we have a candidate that would be more successful in the other party who seems to be doing a very poor job raising money. It gives the appearance to me that they both want to lose this election.

 

[tieguy]

I agree. The problem is that I did not bring that up. This is a common recurring tactic with the DNC of which diesel seems to be a mouthpiece. They alway try to make it look like their opponent is uneducated or somehow made it through school only because of family connections. This tactic has already failed them twice. .

Well they did try that Ms. Buffalochip thing but that did not help them either.

Bush winning the war in Iraq and McCain squeaky clean . Its getting so hard for a loyal red DNC member to smear a republican.

 

[diesel96]

I agree. The problem is that I did not bring that up. This is a common recurring tactic with the DNC of which diesel seems to be a mouthpiece. They alway try to make it look like their opponent is uneducated or somehow made it through school only because of family connections.

Why are you blaming this on me, AV8? Tieguy was the one who insinuated Democrats are equivlant to third graders.


Originally Posted by tieguy
Were that to happen they would have to employ a third grader to translate.

 

[av8torntn]

Why are you blaming this on me, AV8? Tieguy was the one who insinuated Democrats are equivlant to third graders.

Well when you posted this I took off and ran with it. If you are honestly asking why I am blaming this on you just take an honest open minded look at it.

"Lets compare McCain's GPA, test scores and education level to that of Obama, shall we? Or did they not keep school records back in the "old school" days."

I honestly cannot understand why you would want this to be an issue as an Obama supporter. I stand by my reply. I think if you compare graduation from a military academy and military service to that of some graduate of Harvard law school during a time of war you will lose big with middle America. Of course that is just an opinion and I'm not a pollster. I feel like Kerry would have beat Bush if he had not been for surrender to the terrorists. His surrender position along with his positions after Vietnam I feel cost him big and canceled out his service.


You also posted this. This leads me to think you are attacking his military service at the same time you are attacking his education after all the crying you have done on here for people attacking Kerry's service. Kind of a two for one swipe. Don't get me wrong I think Kerry's service was a joke with all the medals he was awarded in such a short period of time. I understand things were different way back then but you guys would have me believe that being on a swift boat was more heroic than charging the beaches of Normandy. Give me a break with his purple hearts that in itself is a big joke. As far as McCain goes I do not think that being a POW makes you qualified to lead the country, but it does carry more weight with me than the social organizing that Nobama did.


"They didn't have professors at the Hanoi' Hilton.....did they?"

You say you want limited government but you openly support Obama who wants to expand government more than even Bush. You cry about people going after the service of Kerry but at the same time you go after McCain for his. The only consistency that you have is that you think that being a member of the DNC in itself somehow justifies any wrongs.

 

[wkmac]

I see a discussion taking place on the education and qualifications of the 2 presidential candidates, where they went to school (West Point verses Harvard) and the fact that McCain has military service experience. Bothsides (if you will) argue their points to validate a just cause for their candidate but I'd like to propose a 3rd option or 3rd voice if you will.

I'd like to throw in Ret. Army Col. Andrew Bacevich. Bacevich graduated West Point in 69', served Vietnam, held posts in Europe, US and Persian Gulf until his retirment in the early 1990's. Bacevich also holds a PHd. from Princeton University in American Diplomatic History and has taught at West Point, John Hopkins and since 1998' has taught at Boston University. Col. Bacevich also lost his only son in May 07' in Iraq in the Salah Ad Din Province from a sucide bomber attack. Andrew Jr. was a 1st Lietenant, US Army, 3rd Battalion, 8th U.S. Cavalry Regiment, 1st Cavalry Division.

Col. Bacevich in fact has the exceptionalism that both sides in this issue portray upon their candidate. With that in mind, I'd like to submit and encourage all to view the 2 part interview with Col. Bacevich which in total runs right at an hour. His IMHO is the type of voice needed in capacities of leadership in this country.

Part 1:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/watch.html

Part 2:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/watch2.html

 

[av8torntn]

I see a discussion taking place on the education and qualifications of the 2 presidential candidates, where they went to school (West Point verses Harvard)

You give one to much credit. Didn't he go to the naval academy and become an aviator?

 

[wkmac]

You give one to much credit. Didn't he go to the naval academy and become an aviator?

Correct! I had West Point on the brain thinking about Bacevich but I know you service guys might object but IMO anyone who goes to a service academy is an impressive task in and of itself. West Point, Annapolis or Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs are all equal in prestige in my eyes. You can also toss in The Citadel and VMI as well.

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Correct! I had West Point on the brain thinking about Bacevich but I know you service guys might object but IMO anyone who goes to a service academy is an impressive task in and of itself. West Point, Annapolis or Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs are all equal in prestige in my eyes. You can also toss in The Citadel and VMI as well.

As an Air Force guy I take issue with you thinking that West Point, Annapolis, the Citadel, or VMI are equal to the Air Force Academy.

 

[diesel96]

I honestly cannot understand why you would want this to be an issue as an Obama supporter. I stand by my reply. I think if you compare graduation from a military academy and military service to that of some graduate of Harvard law school during a time of war you will lose big with middle America. Of course that is just an opinion and I'm not a pollster. I feel like Kerry would have beat Bush if he had not been for surrender to the terrorists. His surrender position along with his positions after Vietnam I feel cost him big and canceled out his service.

With statements such as these , you must be the first in line to buy Jerome Corsi's new book "Obama's Nation". He also authored the smut about Kerry and swiftboaters in 2004.....

You also posted this. This leads me to think you are attacking his military service at the same time you are attacking his education after all the crying you have done on here for people attacking Kerry's service. Kind of a two for one swipe. Don't get me wrong I think Kerry's service was a joke with all the medals he was awarded in such a short period of time. I understand things were different way back then but you guys would have me believe that being on a swift boat was more heroic than charging the beaches of Normandy. Give me a break with his purple hearts that in itself is a big joke. As far as McCain goes I do not think that being a POW makes you qualified to lead the country, but it does carry more weight with me than the social organizing that Nobama did.

Are we at war for our freedom? Why compare "The War on Terror" or Vietnam with those storming the beach on Normandy during WWII? Honestly, your post doesn't do any justice for those who fought and died in Vietnam. Salivating for a leader who's military background and strengths is rushing into or sustaining war as a prerequisit for president is absurd in this day an age. Thats why presidential cabinets have advisors for! What if Obama employed Gen Wesley Clark as his Sec of Defense, a much more qualified surrogate than McCain to handle military affairs. I still prefer a president with a higher IQ.

"They didn't have professors at the Hanoi' Hilton.....did they?"

You say you want limited government but you openly support Obama who wants to expand government more than even Bush. You cry about people going after the service of Kerry but at the same time you go after McCain for his. The only consistency that you have is that you think that being a member of the DNC in itself somehow justifies any wrongs.

Are you really a conservative? Aren't conservatives for limited gov't, balanced budget? Why are you so openly supporting republican leadership that has spun in a 180' degree opposite direction for what they stand for, yet you keep voting for them.
And yes, I go after McCain......I admit, I sometimes stoop to the republican smear machine level to fight fire with fire. RNC has disgraced John Kerry with swiftboating and Micheal Dukakis with that ridiculos picture of him with an oversize helmet sitting in a tank. These guys were critizied for not retailating strong and swiftly enough against the RNC and their canidate. Hopefully, the Democrats learned something from that experience and come back against Repulican smear machine twice as hard. So don't cry foul when blowback comes knocking at your door.

I see a discussion taking place on the education and qualifications of the 2 presidential candidates, where they went to school (West Point verses Harvard) and the fact that McCain has military service experience. Bothsides (if you will) argue their points to validate a just cause for their candidate but I'd like to propose a 3rd option or 3rd voice if you will.

I'd like to throw in Ret. Army Col. Andrew Bacevich. Bacevich graduated West Point in 69', served Vietnam, held posts in Europe, US and Persian Gulf until his retirment in the early 1990's. Bacevich also holds a PHd. from Princeton University in American Diplomatic History and has taught at West Point, John Hopkins and since 1998' has taught at Boston University. Col. Bacevich also lost his only son in May 07' in Iraq in the Salah Ad Din Province from a sucide bomber attack. Andrew Jr. was a 1st Lietenant, US Army, 3rd Battalion, 8th U.S. Cavalry Regiment, 1st Cavalry Division.

Col. Bacevich in fact has the exceptionalism that both sides in this issue portray upon their candidate. With that in mind, I'd like to submit and encourage all to view the 2 part interview with Col. Bacevich which in total runs right at an hour. His IMHO is the type of voice needed in capacities of leadership in this country.

Part 1:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/watch.html

Part 2:

[URL]http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/watch2.html[/URL]

Exceptional interview Wkmac....although pretty long. He pretty much tells it like it is for a Conservative, a real conservative, not someone who throws labels around like a cardshark at a poker tournament. He speaks of the gov't for what it truly is, imperialistic. Smart guy, and don't worry Brown conservatives, he also gets on democrats as well. Just watch and learn...I dare ya!

 

[av8torntn]

As an Air Force guy I take issue with you thinking that West Point, Annapolis, the Citadel, or VMI are equal to the Air Force Academy.

I suppose the Air Force Academy is a mighty fine school for someone who couldn't get into West Point.

 

[av8torntn]

Are we at war for our freedom? Why compare "The War on Terror" or Vietnam with those storming the beach on Normandy during WWII? Honestly, your post doesn't do any justice for those who fought and died in Vietnam.

Clearly you have no idea how military awards are given. There is no distinction between a Silver Star awarded in Vietnam or WWI or Iraqi Freedom. So as usual I pretty much have no idea what you point is. In theory the same standards are supposed to be applied by regulation for most of these awards. A couple have had minor changes over the years but nothing really major that I am aware of.


Salivating for a leader who's military background and strengths is rushing into or sustaining war as a prerequisit for president is absurd in this day an age. Thats why presidential cabinets have advisors for! What if Obama employed Gen Wesley Clark as his Sec of Defense, a much more qualified surrogate than McCain to handle military affairs. I still prefer a president with a higher IQ. So I suppose you support Bush I think he has a higher IQ than either Gore or Kerry. I feel like your support of a candidate solely on his desire for surrender is equally absurd. For the record I thin Clark is a bigger joke than Nobama. I spent time under his command during one deployment.




Are you really a conservative? Aren't conservatives for limited gov't, balanced budget? Why are you so openly supporting republican leadership that has spun in a 180' degree opposite direction for what they stand for, yet you keep voting for them.


Again you have no idea what you are talking about. I despise some conservative ideals.I openly oppose all liberal ideals that you openly support mainly because I believe in myself and the ideals this country was founded on. Yes I support limited government but I have never fully supported a balanced budget. Because I support a limited government on principal I have to oppose every Democrat. I promise you that you cannot name even two conservatives that I have voted for and I vote in every election. As fiercely as I oppose someone telling me how to spend my money I also oppose the Government regulating my morality. What republican leadership have I openly supported? I suppose just because you chose not to think for yourself and fall in line with a party that everyone else must do the same.


And yes, I go after McCain......I admit, I sometimes stoop to the republican smear machine level to fight fire with fire. RNC has disgraced John Kerry with swiftboating and Micheal Dukakis with that ridiculos picture of him with an oversize helmet sitting in a tank. These guys were critizied for not retailating strong and swiftly enough against the RNC and their canidate. Hopefully, the Democrats learned something from that experience and come back against Repulican smear machine twice as hard. So don't cry foul when blowback comes knocking at your door.

In case you have missed it John has had multiple opportunities to take the million dollar bet to disprove the allegations against him. One of the guys even offered him one million dollars for each allegation that he could disprove. They have even offered to give the money to any charity. They have offered to go to any neutral site. Nothing yet. Those commercials were well documented. Reason for no slander lawsuits? I understand one or two guys that signed some affidavits have recanted but it sure appears that for the most part all allegations were true. I mean do you really think that John Kerry earned more medals in two months than most do in an entire career. All political and yes to me he is and was a huge joke with no chance to win that election and I was fairly surprised he even came close. I mean I was deployed for 20 months under the divisional command of 2nd Marine and there rule was no more than one valor award per deployment. Probably everyone in our company rated a purple and many more than on but the running joke was that you were not going to get a J. Kerry award. know you can't possibly understand that and I really don't care.


quote]

 

[UPS Lifer]

GOD FORBID.... If another terrorist attack occurs in the USA, you will see all the doubters come over to McCain for solutions!!!! They won't be asking Loopy. You can depend on that!!

There are just too many people in this country who have forgotten we are at WAR! They think it is a joke and they bury their head in the sand. They are worried about spygate and their personal freedoms being infringed.

Guys like Diesel will be crying another tune if GOD FORBID their loved ones are involved in another terrorist attack.

Only those dedicated folks with top secret clearances know how many attacks have been thwarted since 911.

I will support everything the government thinks needs to be done to keep Diesel' loved ones safe. I will take all the BS he can throw. To me, that will mean there is status quo and he feels safe enough to speak out. After all isn't that what America is all about?

 

[diesel96]

Clearly you have no idea how military awards are given. There is no distinction between a Silver Star awarded in Vietnam or WWI or Iraqi Freedom. So as usual I pretty much have no idea what you point is. In theory the same standards are supposed to be applied by regulation for most of these awards. A couple have had minor changes over the years but nothing really major that I am aware of.

here's your quote "Don't get me wrong I think Kerry's service was a joke with all the medals he was awarded in such a short period of time. I understand things were different way back then but you guys would have me believe that being on a swift boat was more heroic than charging the beaches of Normandy. Give me a break with his purple hearts that in itself is a big joke."

Sounds like partisan jealousy to me.....if our military leaders felt the need to give Kerry a military award, why disrepect it? Were you there in Vietnam? Or are you being fed some political Jerome Corsi kool aid. Obviously, you ego feels the need to determine who should get awards and who shouldn't.

So I suppose you support Bush I think he has a higher IQ than either Gore or Kerry. I feel like your support of a candidate solely on his desire for surrender is equally absurd. For the record I thin Clark is a bigger joke than Nobama. I spent time under his command during one deployment.

Yeah...right...Bush has a higher IQ than Gore or Kerry...lol....did you right that with a straight face.........oh wait...here we go:


oops....I think you better flip the flag the other way Double-ya.......Can u imagine the fuss if Obama did that?


Are you really a conservative? Aren't conservatives for limited gov't, balanced budget? Why are you so openly supporting republican leadership that has spun in a 180' degree opposite direction for what they stand for, yet you keep voting for them.


Again you have no idea what you are talking about. I despise some conservative ideals.

Then why are you not openly criticizing this administration. Why are you steadfastly defending and promoting Mccain for president. Do you even know what conservatism means. Because this administration you support is not anything close to being conservatives...try imperialists.

I openly oppose all liberal ideals that you openly support mainly because I believe in myself and the ideals this country was founded on.

Sorry to break the news to you, this country was founded with limited liberal ideals....and guess what? .....Jesus was a liberal to

Yes I support limited government but I have never fully supported a balanced budget. Because I support a limited government on principal I have to oppose every Democrat. I promise you that you cannot name even two conservatives that I have voted for and I vote in every election.

Not interested in a balanced budget....uhmmm.....Is that the way you conduct yourself at home? Ok...Lets open an unlimited credit card and just keep borrowing off it until someone informs us we have to pay it back...with excess interests cause our dollar isn't worth jack anymore. But have no worries....in the years to come, you won't have to pay it back, cause you'll be dead and your grandchildren will inherit our debt.
Limited Gov't?.....BS...Stop kidding yourself....The GOP is has always been a party of big government and a plague on freedom. Despite the deafening claims from the Left that Bush and modern Republicans have "betrayed the Party of Lincoln" or from the Right that Bush has turned his back on the "small government principles" of the Grand Old Party, the fact is that Bush perfectly represents what the GOP has stood for since its birth.

As fiercely as I oppose someone telling me how to spend my money I also oppose the Government regulating my morality. What republican leadership have I openly supported? I suppose just because you chose not to think for yourself and fall in line with a party that everyone else must do the same.

Part of being a Liberal, Moderate, Libertarian, or Independent IS thinking for yourself, not being an indenture servant to GOP Conservative White Plantation Owning Masters. Talk about morality.....how bout a Gov't that pry's into your bedroom, trys to tell a woman what to do with THEIR body, tells state's they can't legalize pot, says gays can't get married, prevents useful research by stemcells,etc...
I'm the first one to criticize the Democratic Congress for not doing their job they were elected to do....I have never heard you be critical of the neo-right wing philosophy


And yes, I go after McCain......I admit, I sometimes stoop to the republican smear machine level to fight fire with fire. RNC has disgraced John Kerry with swiftboating and Micheal Dukakis with that ridiculos picture of him with an oversize helmet sitting in a tank. These guys were critizied for not retailating strong and swiftly enough against the RNC and their canidate. Hopefully, the Democrats learned something from that experience and come back against Repulican smear machine twice as hard. So don't cry foul when blowback comes knocking at your door.

In case you have missed it John has had multiple opportunities to take the million dollar bet to disprove the allegations against him. One of the guys even offered him one million dollars for each allegation that he could disprove. They have even offered to give the money to any charity. They have offered to go to any neutral site. Nothing yet. Those commercials were well documented. Reason for no slander lawsuits? I understand one or two guys that signed some affidavits have recanted but it sure appears that for the most part all allegations were true. I mean do you really think that John Kerry earned more medals in two months than most do in an entire career. All political and yes to me he is and was a huge joke with no chance to win that election and I was fairly surprised he even came close. I mean I was deployed for 20 months under the divisional command of 2nd Marine and there rule was no more than one valor award per deployment. Probably everyone in our company rated a purple and many more than on but the running joke was that you were not going to get a J. Kerry award. know you can't possibly understand that and I really don't care.

You said it yourself, you base your opinion on something that you think "appears" to be true, not factual....your totally entitled to your opinion, however, the author who published his swiftboat lies in order to smear Kerry, right before the 2004 general election process, was for the most part debunked and now in the 2008 general election you defend the ressurrection of the Kerry smears, meanwhile, the same author lies in another publication "Obama Nation" and clearly states his objective is to not have Sen Obama elected. Now somehow your trying to tie in your military service and equate that to John Kerrys as being some sort of a joke....sorry, not buying it.

GOD FORBID.... If another terrorist attack occurs in the USA, you will see all the doubters come over to McCain for solutions!!!! They won't be asking Loopy. You can depend on that!!

There are just too many people in this country who have forgotten we are at WAR! They think it is a joke and they bury their head in the sand. They are worried about spygate and their personal freedoms being infringed.

Guys like Diesel will be crying another tune if GOD FORBID their loved ones are involved in another terrorist attack.

Only those dedicated folks with top secret clearances know how many attacks have been thwarted since 911.

I will support everything the government thinks needs to be done to keep Diesel' loved ones safe. I will take all the BS he can throw. To me, that will mean there is status quo and he feels safe enough to speak out. After all isn't that what America is all about?

Lifer....Don't you worry buddy, one day I will break you free from being another one of those GOP Gov't loving indentured servents. Just pray the gov't will keep my eldest son in the Air Force safe, he's looking out for you to...I'll worry about myself...thx
BTW...I think you really need to listen to this interview that wkmac posted;

Part 1:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/watch.html

Part 2:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/08152008/watch2.html

 

[av8torntn]

Ok Diesel I'll play just a little with you although most of what you posted makes no sense.

"Yeah...right...Bush has a higher IQ than Gore or Kerry...lol....did you right that with a straight face.........oh wait...here we go:"


Ifriend we ignore the fact that Gore believes there is some type of man made gore bull warming I am pretty sure he tested somewhere close to bill Clinton at 134. If you use the crude sat conversion for Bush I've read it comes somewhere close to the high 120's. Now we must add in the "fact" that you say he fooled the entire democratic party into believing there were wmd's in Iraq and I would say that has to be worth another 15 to 20 points.


"Sounds like partisan jealousy to me.....if our military leaders felt the need to give Kerry a military award, why disrepect it? Were you there in Vietnam? Or are you being fed some political Jerome Corsi kool aid. Obviously, you ego feels the need to determine who should get awards and who shouldn't"


No jealousy here I've got mine sweetheart.

"Then why are you not openly criticizing this administration. Why are you steadfastly defending and promoting Mccain for president. Do you even know what conservatism means. Because this administration you support is not anything close to being conservatives...try imperialists."

Ok I take it you may be new here or just have not read but I have been openly critical. I oppose the expansion of Medicare. I oppose the use of National Guard troops on the border when we have a real war to fight overseas. I oppose the expansion of the department of education. I am also sure that if these things were done during a democratic administration you would support them.


"Not interested in a balanced budget....uhmmm.....Is that the way you conduct yourself at home? Ok...Lets open an unlimited credit card and just keep borrowing off it until someone informs us we have to pay it back...with excess interests cause our dollar isn't worth jack anymore. But have no worries....in the years to come, you won't have to pay it back, cause you'll be dead and your grandchildren will inherit our debt.
Limited Gov't?.....BS...Stop kidding yourself....The GOP is has always been aparty of big government and a plague on freedom. Despite the deafening claims from the Left that Bush and modern Republicans have "betrayed the Party of Lincoln" or from the Right that Bush has turned his back on the "small government principles" of the Grand Old Party, the fact is that Bush perfectly represents what the GOP has stood for since its birth."


I choose not to get into this because I feel that you would not have the capacity to understand my position and it is really not relevant.



"Sorry to break the news to you, this country was founded with limited liberal ideals....and guess what? .....Jesus was a liberal to"

This is the one and only part that I wanted to respond to and more with a question that any thing else. I feel like these are the main liberal positions of today. It should be legal to kill babies. There should be a very high progressive income tax. Gun ownership should be either illegal or so regulated as to become impractical. Taxpayer funded health care for all citizens and non citizens inside our borders. Government run oil, gas, natural gas, and all forms of energy companies.Price controls on many goods and services. There are several others but these seem to be on the front burner the last 20 years. My question is since I believe you are defined by your actions is why did they founders not put these things in the constitution? They did however include Amendment X. Which says in effect that the powers not given to the Federal Government by this constitution are reserved to the states. So by the actions of the founders they seem to be the opposite of what modern liberalism is. So again try and stay focused in your answer but why oh why did they not include these thing that modern liberals champion the most in the constitution? I don't know about the Jesus thing I am not a very religious guy although I did spend time at a private religious college in my youth. My answer to that would be that he was not here when our country was founded but I find it hard to believe that he would champion the cause of mothers killing their babies. But anyway you've got me on the Jesus thing I would defer that debate to people more religious than myself.