RTW passes in Michigan

[Bagels]

No doubt. I've voted on two contracts and every local election since 2004. That hasn't worked too well in my favor.

If losing the right to vote in elections is the only thing I'm going to lose by opting out, it's really not much of a decision if the 2013 contract is as bad as the last two for part timers in comparison to full timers.

But you can thank the union for your level of pay -- which is unquestionably higher than most other PT jobs hiring those with similar skill sets (e.g. none) -- and no-cost, quality health insurance. Dropping out of the union only gives further leverage to the company & FTers. The FTers don't give two hoots about you; if the company were to offer an economic proposal that included a slight increase in FT pension but elimination of PT benefits, the FTers would overwhelmingly vote in favor of this. And the PTers who dropped out of the union to send a message? Well, at least the company would be listening, right?

 

[anonymous4]

So explain to me again why union contracts aren't handed out right when a member begins to pay dues. This might be one of the more obvious things you'd assume would be protocol. The local has boxes of these things when you go there, why are they at the local and not in the back of a stewards car? Here is why: The union doesn't give a damn about an informed pt workforce.

Bagels, part-timers dropping out of the union gives more leverage to the company and full-timers? Both doesn't seem like the right presumption. Keep repeating to yourself, part-timers as a whole don't care because they are part-time in a throw away job while you are full-time in a career. All your answers are right there. It must be nice to pull the wool over your eyes as you do a cash-grab every contract though, telling yourself "part-timers could have their way if they just...".

Part-timers will never take their piece of the pie and that is perfectly fine, if you want the $ you must go full-time. Really though, just be honest with yourselves and others about the situation. It appears clear as day that the union isn't interested in educating its new membership. Couple that with new membership not wanting to be interested as they pass through and there are the real reasons why part-timers show PART TIME INTEREST while full-timers show FULL TIME INTEREST in their union. Unfortunately the minority group of part-timers who have that full time interest will never be the majority and it is intrinsically set up this way.

 

[Catatonic]

But you can thank the union for your level of pay -- which is unquestionably higher than most other PT jobs hiring those with similar skill sets (e.g. none) -- and no-cost, quality health insurance.

Sarcasm is one of my favorite types of humor. Nice job!

 

[104Feeder]

So explain to me again why union contracts aren't handed out right when a member begins to pay dues. This might be one of the more obvious things you'd assume would be protocol. The local has boxes of these things when you go there, why are they at the local and not in the back of a stewards car? Here is why: The union doesn't give a damn about an informed pt workforce.

Bagels, part-timers dropping out of the union gives more leverage to the company and full-timers? Both doesn't seem like the right presumption. Keep repeating to yourself, part-timers as a whole don't care because they are part-time in a throw away job while you are full-time in a career. All your answers are right there. It must be nice to pull the wool over your eyes as you do a cash-grab every contract though, telling yourself "part-timers could have their way if they just...".

Part-timers will never take their piece of the pie and that is perfectly fine, if you want the $ you must go full-time. Really though, just be honest with yourselves and others about the situation. It appears clear as day that the union isn't interested in educating its new membership. Couple that with new membership not wanting to be interested as they pass through and there are the real reasons why part-timers show PART TIME INTEREST while full-timers show FULL TIME INTEREST in their union. Unfortunately the minority group of part-timers who have that full time interest will never be the majority and it is intrinsically set up this way.

We aren't there to hold your hand. Stewards probably have contracts in their cars & in their lockers, I certainly do. How about stepping up and asking for one? And is it really too much to expect you to come down to the hall and maybe attend a monthly meeting where not only could you get a copy of the contract, but also the bylaws and all sorts of good literature plus maybe some information?

In RTW States we are required to give members and non-members alike a copy of the contract but we aren't required to hunt them down and beg them to take it. I tell non-members they can pick theirs up from the hall.

Stop whining that the Union is trying to keep part-timers down and clean up your own house.

 

[anonymous4]

Stop telling me I am whining, and stop ASSuming I don't partake in union activities. I am referencing the general part-timer, not myself for the 2nd or 3rd time. An FYI, when I first started I had 4 months in and approached a steward about a contract. She told me she couldn't help me and I probably couldn't access one until I was fully paid in. Did that stop me from obtaining one? NO, but the point is it was more difficult than it should have been and most wouldn't care enough to jump through the hoops just like most wouldn't jump through the hoops of pursuing a supervisor working grievance for MONTHS ON END WITHOUT A POSITIVE RESULT.

It just seems like common sense that if the union can send out their endless liberal propaganda, magazines with hoffa making strong but empty statements et cetera, a contract, which is, you know... the entire basis of the union would be something you made sure every new member received with or without a fresh part-timers request. The entire point is most new hires don't even know what the hell the contract is but you seem to enjoy letting that fact fly over your head. I respect some of your thoughts in previous threads but you seem to have your head in the sand on some issues, sorry for the ASSumption.

 

[104Feeder]

Stop telling me I am whining, and stop ASSuming I don't partake in union activities. I am referencing the general part-timer, not myself for the 2nd or 3rd time. An FYI, when I first started I had 4 months in and approached a steward about a contract. She told me she couldn't help me and I probably couldn't access one until I was fully paid in. Did that stop me from obtaining one? NO, but the point is it was more difficult than it should have been and most wouldn't care enough to jump through the hoops just like most wouldn't jump through the hoops of pursuing a supervisor working grievance for MONTHS ON END WITHOUT A POSITIVE RESULT.

It just seems like common sense that if the union can send out their endless liberal propaganda, magazines with hoffa making strong but empty statements et cetera, a contract, which is, you know... the entire basis of the union would be something you made sure every new member received with or without a fresh part-timers request. The entire point is most new hires don't even know what the hell the contract is but you seem to enjoy letting that fact fly over your head. I respect some of your thoughts in previous threads but you seem to have your head in the sand on some issues, sorry for the ASSumption.

You are whining. The "general part-timer" doesn't need us to hold his/her hand. The address for the Union hall is posted on every letterhead on every document in every Union board in EVERY SINGLE HUB EVERYWHERE. So a steward didn't have the right answer and blew you off, and it didn't stop you. Why can't you assume that everyone could get off their lazy ass and go find another steward or go to the Union hall? Here's a newsflash: Printing contracts costs money. When I hand them out, I have a signoff sheet so that no one gets more than one. We can't be handing them out time after time since you, (and I'm referencing the general "you") seem to lose them left and right.

So you had a Sup working grievance that didn't work out for you, whoop de doo. Shizzit happens. It's an imperfect system. Just because one time it didn't work out doesn't mean that it won't the next. It's free money for you anyway so all you lost is the time you spent filling out a piece of paper. Again, if you don't like how they are being handled STEP UP and become a Steward so you can do it yourself. You'll find the experience eye opening I'm sure.

The "liberal propaganda" (focused on getting jobs crazy I know) comes from the National. The local has nothing to do with it. Shipping everyone a contract would be cost prohibitive and not exactly help the lazy people from getting off their couch and attending a meeting (which you don't seem to do either- not the general "you" this time). The Contract is not, you know, the entire basis of the Union- Organizing is. New hires barely know where anything goes after they put it on the belt but you expect us to have them up to speed & fully informed before the ink is dry on their application.

Again, QUIT WHINING

 

[brown_trousers]

Stop telling me I am whining, and stop ASSuming I don't partake in union activities. I am referencing the general part-timer, not myself for the 2nd or 3rd time. An FYI, when I first started I had 4 months in and approached a steward about a contract. She told me she couldn't help me and I probably couldn't access one until I was fully paid in. Did that stop me from obtaining one? NO, but the point is it was more difficult than it should have been and most wouldn't care enough to jump through the hoops just like most wouldn't jump through the hoops of pursuing a supervisor working grievance for MONTHS ON END WITHOUT A POSITIVE RESULT.

It just seems like common sense that if the union can send out their endless liberal propaganda, magazines with hoffa making strong but empty statements et cetera, a contract, which is, you know... the entire basis of the union would be something you made sure every new member received with or without a fresh part-timers request. The entire point is most new hires don't even know what the hell the contract is but you seem to enjoy letting that fact fly over your head. I respect some of your thoughts in previous threads but you seem to have your head in the sand on some issues, sorry for the ASSumption.

You just have a bad shop steward. Theres bound to be a few bad eggs in any organization.

My shop steward would be overwhelmed with joy if ANY part-timer showed interest in union activities.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

104Feeders, with all due respect, handing out dues books and and getting in the face of every new ptmer and letting them know
that the union is there for them and HOW is not "holding someone's hand"-and quite frankly if it was, would there be a problem with that, if it ultimately meant a stronger union in the end, with a more-informed workforce willing to make the union-fought rules work for them (e.g. more part-timers fighting the war against supervisors working)?

As kids we have school to get us ready for life, and learn how to cope with it. Companies give orientations that consist of more than "If you need help, talk to your supervisor or some older person on your dept). Why doesn't the Union take a similar approach.

When UPS first hired me as a loader, they failed to "hold my hand", as it were, using THEIR prescribed methods with the graduated work load. You would say they set me up for failure, and so it would probably not surprise you that I bombed, causing drivers to leave late every morning and eventually prompting the Center Mgr to verbally berate me in a screaming tirade one morning. However, nothing changed until they did some training and "held my hand".

On at least three occasions in my previous driving center I was thrown cold onto a route; little wonder I did not make 9.5 during the first three weeks, if not longer, on those routes. The first route I ever learned I was the helper to the main driver for 3 days; in my current center the oncars stay with you for about a week; much less problems for UPS due to my stumblings under those scenarios.

You are basically throwing new union members "into the cold" with the current methods (making them come to you). This will not work well in the long run.

I find it ironic, given the union's democratic leaning, how much the more involved Union members position here is reminiscent of the Republican stance concerning giving people a helping hand, and being more generous with spreading the wealth.

 

[Hroller]

I am a seasonal driver, for the past 4 years. I would choose not to join the union for those 6 months out of the year.

 

[Inthegame]

104Feeders, with all due respect, handing out dues books and and getting in the face of every new ptmer and letting them know
that the union is there for them and HOW is not "holding someone's hand"-and quite frankly if it was, would there be a problem with that, if it ultimately meant a stronger union in the end, with a more-informed workforce willing to make the union-fought rules work for them (e.g. more part-timers fighting the war against supervisors working)?

As kids we have school to get us ready for life, and learn how to cope with it. Companies give orientations that consist of more than "If you need help, talk to your supervisor or some older person on your dept). Why doesn't the Union take a similar approach.

When UPS first hired me as a loader, they failed to "hold my hand", as it were, using THEIR prescribed methods with the graduated work load. You would say they set me up for failure, and so it would probably not surprise you that I bombed, causing drivers to leave late every morning and eventually prompting the Center Mgr to verbally berate me in a screaming tirade one morning. However, nothing changed until they did some training and "held my hand".

On at least three occasions in my previous driving center I was thrown cold onto a route; little wonder I did not make 9.5 during the first three weeks, if not longer, on those routes. The first route I ever learned I was the helper to the main driver for 3 days; in my current center the oncars stay with you for about a week; much less problems for UPS due to my stumblings under those scenarios.

You are basically throwing new union members "into the cold" with the current methods (making them come to you). This will not work well in the long run.

I find it ironic, given the union's democratic leaning, how much the more involved Union members position here is reminiscent of the Republican stance concerning giving people a helping hand, and being more generous with spreading the wealth.

What are you talking about??? You bombed as a loader cause you needed more training? Then you went out on routes cold and didn't make it in less than 9.5? The horror! What inhumanity! But you really threw me with the last quip...the "republican" stance of helping hand and spreading the wealth???
I read this post three times and I come to the conclusion I've had too much Christmas "cheer".

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Inthegame, I think you missed my point.

When I was given proper orientation-i.e. pointed in the right direction-on how to do certain things, I prospered. When I wasn't (and not because UPS wanted me to fail or didn't have good procedures in place, but because the supes involved were too busy or lazy to do it correctly), I suffered, but it also adversely affected UPS somehow for my managers and supervisors to come yelling/crying to me about my poor performance. New hires need to be pointed in-sometimes led in-the right direction concerning getting involved with union activities.

For myself, a conversation with my father concerning him going to a union meeting (he's in the postal union) made me realize I should learn more about my union, and go to meetings. A teamster at my workplace probably should have done that, not someone from the postal union. (To be fair, though, in my current center the steward always asks if we will attend the meeting on a given Saturday)

As for "the Republican Stance on handouts and redistribution", they do have one: don't do it. Union vets here about handing out info to new hires (vs them finding their own way) and involving them in the union's activities by reaching out to them: don't do it. I have read the primary job of a union agent is to organize. While they are "part of the union", ptmers are not organized, to the detriment of everyone involved.

 

[Inthegame]

Inthegame, I think you missed my point.

When I was given proper orientation-i.e. pointed in the right direction-on how to do certain things, I prospered. When I wasn't (and not because UPS wanted me to fail or didn't have good procedures in place, but because the supes involved were too busy or lazy to do it correctly), I suffered, but it also adversely affected UPS somehow for my managers and supervisors to come yelling/crying to me about my poor performance. New hires need to be pointed in-sometimes led in-the right direction concerning getting involved with union activities.

For myself, a conversation with my father concerning him going to a union meeting (he's in the postal union) made me realize I should learn more about my union, and go to meetings. A teamster at my workplace probably should have done that, not someone from the postal union. (To be fair, though, in my current center the steward always asks if we will attend the meeting on a given Saturday)

As for "the Republican Stance on handouts and redistribution", they do have one: don't do it. Union vets here about handing out info to new hires (vs them finding their own way) and involving them in the union's activities by reaching out to them: don't do it. I have read the primary job of a union agent is to organize. While they are "part of the union", ptmers are not organized, to the detriment of everyone involved.

Yes, you're right, I missed the point. See when I was hired at UPS I didn't ask anyone about the benefits of unionism. I already knew a union job was a better job and I made sure I found out when and where meetings were held. I regularly attended because I wanted a better union and I did what I could to make that happen. You're probably right though, I'm a dying breed, I didn't rely on sups to lead me to success. Todays generation needs direction and allows themselves to be led around and believe the corporate BS fed to them. All the crap about the union should do this and do that and when things all fall apart it'll be the "unions" fault but no one will look in the mirror and see who the union really is, YOU. Get yourself involved, go to meetings, call your BA, talk to your steward or better yet RUN for office, in this most democratic organization you most likely will ever belong to.
I'm glad your dad had the good sense to tell you about unions, I just don't understand why he needed to.

Reread the posts from 104Feeder, he(she?) makes more sentence in one post than you'll read in fifty others.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Inthegame, there's a bog difference betweem you, and me and probably the majority of UPS workers, PT or FT:
You chose UPS because it was a union job; the fact that it is a union job meant little to nothing to me, and it had no bearing on my choice to work or make it my primary secular career. Thus, I focused on what I was taught what gets people higher wages and job security: strong work ethic, integrity, honesty, etc.

Most who decide to employ at UPS don't do so because it has a union, although their reasons may typically be because of the union (e.g. higher pay, excellent bennies, job security). It is to the union's detriment to assume that people are going to want to support the union just because. Afterall, most of those hired by UPS now may have little exposure to unions in a positive light, rather than negative ones (like the strikes of public sector unions without really knowing the issues).

Times are different. 104 is from a different generation. So am I, and I am only 32. That fact needs to be recognized, or we all suffer

 

[104Feeder]

OK AJ, I'll do it your way, you just need to hold my hand and tell me how to do it.

You be the Steward, pick your operation (hub or package; Feeder doesn't have this problem).

Walk me through how you would solve this problem.

 

[PT Stewie]

Iowa is a RTW state . Ask Melissa Nelson how she feels about being an at will employee. I know she would still have her job in she was an IBT member. A differant time ? Seven jack asses ruled she could be terminated for being too attractive !!! You bet it is a differant time and in a lot of cases not better.

 

[E Roldan]

There is almost no value for us P/T workers being in the union, that’s why the turnover is so high and new memberships are dwindling. Most of the new guys/gals are forced to pick up the slack of lazy friend/T’s. I’ve worked with too many who don’t care about how long they take to do things while you bust your hump while a Sup rides our back to get things done quicker. What does the union do for us? Make six figures while we struggle to get enough hours to make working here worth it?

 

[John19841]

Most of the new guys/gals are forced to pick up the slack of lazy friend/T’s. I’ve worked with too many who don’t care about how long they take to do things while you bust your hump while a Sup rides our back to get things done quicker

Join the Union and tell that Sup to get off your back, you're doing the best you can. If he doesn't, grieve for harassment. What is happening to you is a prime example of why we have and need a union. I'm aware you had no intent to, but thank you for relaying that to us. By the way, what is happening to you is your own fault.

 

[Coldworld]

There is almost no value for us P/T workers being in the union, that’s why the turnover is so high and new memberships are dwindling. Most of the new guys/gals are forced to pick up the slack of lazy friend/T’s. I’ve worked with too many who don’t care about how long they take to do things while you bust your hump while a Sup rides our back to get things done quicker. What does the union do for us? Make six figures while we struggle to get enough hours to make working here worth it?[/QUOTE)totally understand what your saying but UPS are the ones who won't give you more hours..not the union.

 

[PT Stewie]

There is almost no value for us P/T workers being in the union, that’s why the turnover is so high and new memberships are dwindling. Most of the new guys/gals are forced to pick up the slack of lazy friend/T’s. I’ve worked with too many who don’t care about how long they take to do things while you bust your hump while a Sup rides our back to get things done quicker. What does the union do for us? Make six figures while we struggle to get enough hours to make working here worth it
I have been a PT worker for 15 years . There is tremendous advantages of being in the union.Fully paid health benefits,pension,regular pay increases, union representation,and so on. Stick around for a while you will see.You have more going for you than the those pt sups riding your back.

 

[104Feeder]

There is almost no value for us P/T workers being in the union, that’s why the turnover is so high and new memberships are dwindling. Most of the new guys/gals are forced to pick up the slack of lazy friend/T’s. I’ve worked with too many who don’t care about how long they take to do things while you bust your hump while a Sup rides our back to get things done quicker. What does the union do for us? Make six figures while we struggle to get enough hours to make working here worth it
I have been a PT worker for 15 years . There is tremendous advantages of being in the union.Fully paid health benefits,pension,regular pay increases, union representation,and so on. Stick around for a while you will see.You have more going for you than the those pt sups riding your back.

Could add LTD/STD disability, life insurance, & the Teamster legal plan to that list too. I can't think of any part time jobs that pay disability.