Russia Claims Ukraine Standoff Is Over

[oldngray]

Well, I don’t think we’re supporting Ukraine. I think we’re the instigator.. I think Russia fell for the bait and they are not justified even if Ukraine has a Nazi problem. I’ve never heard one single person say everyone in Ukraine is a Nazi lol it’s really not an argument.

They want a forever war

 

[Thebrownblob]

@Thebrownblob

That does not suppose everyone was a sympathizer, but the problem was a systemic one in Ukraine, and a large portion of the authorities, and government entities were involved and not just a few random people. Even many of The German people didn’t agree with much of what the Nazi party did.

 

[oldngray]

That does not suppose everyone was a sympathizer, but the problem was a systemic one in Ukraine, an a large portion of the authorities, and government entities were involved and not just a few random people. Even many of The German people didn’t agree with much of what the Nazi did.

Most of the German people didn't agree but many were willfully ignorant of what was happening.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Most of the German people didn't agree but many were willfully ignorant of what was happening.

Yep once again, propaganda is a powerful tool as we can see here.

 

[vantexan]

I find it telling you you always revert back to liberal leftist talking points. Strange for a supposed conservative. I never used the word “all” I said many. The German couldn’t have carried out such a massive amount of killing and exterminating of Ukrainian Jews without lots of help from the willing locals. The fact that the Germans turned on them and killed them as well is inconsequential if not completely expected.

Which liberal Leftist talking points did I revert back to? And as I said before, some did. The Ukrainians were being characterized as Nazi collaborators by LineandInitial. You jumped in for some reason saying you never said that.

 

[vantexan]

Most of the German people didn't agree but many were willfully ignorant of what was happening.

The Germans were very supportive of Hitler and the war effort. Those who weren't were often jailed and even executed. But some were involved in a resistance movement. It's not historically accurate talking about any group to say "they're all this or that." Not referring to you.

 

[Lineandinitial]

@Thebrownblob

@Thebrownblob

You're very clever.
Hundreds of thousands of Ukranians joined the military and para-military ranks in full support of the Nazi's.
I never said "all" and I am not a closet leftist like "some".
Your version of history is wrong because you only visited a few places around the world and see yourself as a global expert.
Those that were born in the EU and have many, many family members there see things as they WERE, and not as the liberal media or a few vacationers think they are.

 

[Lineandinitial]

The Germans were very supportive of Hitler and the war effort. Those who weren't were often jailed and even executed. But some were involved in a resistance movement. It's not historically accurate talking about any group to say "they're all this or that." Not referring to you.

You're soooo clever.
You're actually defining your own comments here, not mine

 

[oldngray]

The Germans were very supportive of Hitler and the war effort. Those who weren't were often jailed and even executed. But some were involved in a resistance movement. It's not historically accurate talking about any group to say "they're all this or that." Not referring to you.

There was a resistance movement but pretty small. At least as long as the Germans were still winning.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Which liberal Leftist talking points did I revert back to? And as I said before, some did. The Ukrainians were being characterized as Nazi collaborators by LineandInitial. You jumped in for some reason saying you never said that.

And you were characterizing them as having very little part. Millions of dead Jews would say otherwise can you even fathom that many dead people? And when someone brings it up, you pretend I said all., and then proceeded to use some nonsense about “all” MAGA.I Simply pointed out to you that you have been rolled by propaganda.. On the one hand you think Biden is complicit in all kinds of corruption with his son in Ukraine, but are blinded by your love of war, and cannot fathom that this war could be a cover.

If you don’t want people jumping in, don’t have a conversation online.

 

[Next Day Err]

SARs note when large sums of money are sent or received. So explain why $20 million+ was sent to 9 Biden family members, laundered through 20 phony companies?

Show me the details. Surely you can do that if this is accurate.

 

[vantexan]

You're very clever.
Hundreds of thousands of Ukranians joined the military and para-military ranks in full support of the Nazi's.
I never said "all" and I am not a closet leftist like "some".
Your version of history is wrong because you only c=visit a few places around the world and see yourself as a global expert.
Those that were born in the EU and have many, many family members there see things as they WERE, and not as the liberal media or a few vacationers think they are.

Unlike you I've spent most of my 62 years reading. Primarily history. Seems when people take a side on a current issue they often take historical events out of context to justify their position. And as is often the case with war the side they're against gets demonized.

For example. I know you'll love this. I spent 3 months in Kyrgyzstan. A month each in their 3 biggest cities. Talked to a lot of people. Really good people who were very pro America, anti Russia. Never once asked for money from me. The majority of these people are pro capitalism. The majority come from a Muslim background. Most don't practice today because the communists put a huge burden on religion for decades.

Know what? According to some I'm naive. Those who haven't gone there claim that they're all communists and Muslim fanatics. Can't be told differently, they know better. What do I know, I'm just a tourist. That's the kind of thinking I see flare up on this forum on occasion.

 

[vantexan]

And you were characterizing them as having very little part. Millions of dead Jews would say otherwise can you even fathom that many dead people? And when someone brings it up, you pretend I said all., and then proceeded to use some nonsense about “all” MAGA.I Simply pointed out to you that you have been rolled by propaganda.. On the one hand you think Biden is complicit in all kinds of corruption with his son in Ukraine, but are blinded by your love of war, and cannot fathom that this war could be a cover.

If you don’t want people jumping in, don’t have a conversation online.

No, I said some did. Line just said hundreds of thousands fought for the Germans. I read about a division of 80,000. If I'm wrong fine but I suspect things get blown out of proportion to win arguments.

 

[Thebrownblob]

No, I said some did. Line just said hundreds of thousands fought for the Germans. I read about a division of 80,000. If I'm wrong fine but I suspect things get blown out of proportion to win arguments.

I don’t want to win an argument I just want to respect the millions of systematically exterminated Jews and give them their due and the perpetrators there as well. No need to sugarcoat.

 

[vantexan]

That does not suppose everyone was a sympathizer, but the problem was a systemic one in Ukraine, and a large portion of the authorities, and government entities were involved and not just a few random people. Even many of The German people didn’t agree with much of what the Nazi party did.

Ukraine wasn't a separate country. It was part of the Soviet Union. A big part of it was behind German lines on the Russian front and many Ukrainians saw working with the Nazis as a chance to break away from Russian domination. So in western Ukraine there was collaboration. The Nazis were doing most of the killing but the collaborators were certainly helping with that.

 

[vantexan]

I don’t want to win an argument I just want to respect the millions of systematically exterminated Jews and give them their due and the perpetrators there as well. No need to sugarcoat.

You just said millions. Recognized that 1.5 million Jews were killed in Ukraine. That's horrific enough but as I've pointed out numbers tend to get inflated to win arguments. Like hundreds of thousands fought for Germany. Saying the Ukrainians today are neo-Nazis. Using generalities to say we shouldn't be involved because they are this or that. Demonizing a whole people. Which is odd considering Germany was the epicenter of all this and we think well of the Germans today.

 

[Thebrownblob]

You just said millions. Recognized that 1.5 million Jews were killed in Ukraine. That's horrific enough but as I've pointed out numbers tend to get inflated to win arguments. Like hundreds of thousands fought for Germany. Saying the Ukrainians today are neo-Nazis. Using generalities to say we shouldn't be involved because they are this or that. Demonizing a whole people. Which is odd considering Germany was the epicenter of all this and we think well of the Germans today.

And I think you’re framing of the argument, as that is completely opposite of what I’m saying.

I feel terrible for the people of Ukraine having us as a friend is like having the school bully who egg on a fight just to watch you get pummeled so that they could laugh and do as a please behind your back. And when we’re done with them, we will kick them to the curb.

And I never mentioned any number of Ukrainians I just said many, because pretending there weren’t many is impossible with that many dead people.
Propaganda and the fog of war has covered up much of that over the decades. We will never know the true amount.

 

[Lineandinitial]

“Unlike you, I read”….
What an arrogant thing to say.

Blissfully ignorant and probably living in a converted motel, as I have been informed.

There’s a handful of people here and one seems to live and breathe arguing his weak and ignorant positions every day, all day.

 

[vantexan]

“Unlike you, I read”….
What an arrogant thing to say.

Blissfully ignorant and probably living in a converted motel, as I have been informed.

There’s a handful of people here and one seems to live and breathe arguing his weak and ignorant positions every day, all day.

I'd be insulted if it weren't so amusing watch you come up with your insults. I live in a 2800 sq ft brick home with detached garage on an acre next to a lake in Central Florida.

 

[Lineandinitial]

I'd be insulted if it weren't so amusing watch you come up with your insults. I live in a 2800 sq ft brick home with detached garage on an acre next to a lake in Central Florida.

Right…