Section 1a Article 37

[toonertoo]

"Perceived [legal] liability" is one of the few things that can get UPS moving on stuff like this. If there's even perceived age discrimination, an EEOC charge can also help grease the skids.

The "gold standard" for a grievance like this involves two witness statements to support the grievant's version of events. This is next to impossible with a lot of the harassment/intimidation that goes on; a comment made by a supervisor in passing in the building or an on-car supervisor doing a production ride along.

That's why the recent Whole Foods "recording" case is so interesting; while it wasn't applicable to harassment per se, it granted workers the right to record an anti-union captive audience meeting in spite of the company's policy to the contrary. While I wouldn't recommend someone doing so, a recording like this is going to eventually surface.

I'm just curious if anyone is going to have the nuts to try and run with it.

I would bet someone will

 

[Dragon]

'giving due consideration to the age and physical condition of the employee' Anyone ever use this in a grievance, ? Do time allowances change for the elderly and sickly?

Thanks, now the Union has given me the ability to be a doctor!

Hell, I thought it was against federal law to discriminate based on age...now what I am supposed to do?

 

[Lead Belly]

So in other words you don't have experience with said issue

Sure if that's what you think I'm good with that.

 

[Bubblehead]

Thanks, now the Union has given me the ability to be a doctor!

Hell, I thought it was against federal law to discriminate based on age...now what I am supposed to do?

Your welcome and by the way

.....the Union has "given you" nothing.



This language was negotiated

....."in good faith"?



Perhaps you should recognize that the grievance process is for for everyone's protection?

After all, where would the company be (besides court) if it weren't for the term "differ to the grievance process"?



~Bbbl~

 

[Dragon]

Your welcome and by the way

.....the Union has "given you" nothing.



This language was negotiated

....."in good faith"?



Perhaps you should recognize that the grievance process is for for everyone's protection?

After all, where would the company be (besides court) if it weren't for the term "differ to the grievance process"?



~Bbbl~

Don't even go there with "in good faith" as much you guys violate the contract on a daily basis...the grievance process is exactly that, a grievance process not an ultimatum from you to me.

I got one on the ropes now because he thought he was "given" the right to not to work as instructed (he grieved something and asked us to go look and look who we caught!), he wished he had followed the contract "in good faith" now.

Before you waive that union book in my face make sure you follow "everything" that is in it and don't pick and choose which one's you want to follow and the one's you don't, other wise you are a hypocrite like the rest of them.

and if you bid on a route I ain't changing a d#$% thing based on your age or physical condition because you made the choice to work on the route, I am also not going to load you up either nothing to gain from that.

We will always be in court, we are large corporation, some one will always feel that we have screwed them over in some way (union and non-union)

Just some food for thought based on your post.

 

[burrheadd]

Don't even go there with "in good faith" as much you guys violate the contract on a daily basis...the grievance process is exactly that, a grievance process not an ultimatum from you to me.

I got one on the ropes now because he thought he was "given" the right to not to work as instructed (he grieved something and asked us to go look and look who we caught!), he wished he had followed the contract "in good faith" now.

Before you waive that union book in my face make sure you follow "everything" that is in it and don't pick and choose which one's you want to follow and the one's you don't, other wise you are a hypocrite like the rest of them.

and if you bid on a route I ain't changing a d#$% thing based on your age or physical condition because you made the choice to work on the route, I am also not going to load you up either nothing to gain from that.

We will always be in court, we are large corporation, some one will always feel that we have screwed them over in some way (union and non-union)

Just some food for thought based on your post.

 

[Bubblehead]

Don't even go there with "in good faith" as much you guys violate the contract on a daily basis...the grievance process is exactly that, a grievance process not an ultimatum from you to me.

I got one on the ropes now because he thought he was "given" the right to not to work as instructed (he grieved something and asked us to go look and look who we caught!), he wished he had followed the contract "in good faith" now.

Before you waive that union book in my face make sure you follow "everything" that is in it and don't pick and choose which one's you want to follow and the one's you don't, other wise you are a hypocrite like the rest of them.

and if you bid on a route I ain't changing a d#$% thing based on your age or physical condition because you made the choice to work on the route, I am also not going to load you up either nothing to gain from that.

We will always be in court, we are large corporation, some one will always feel that we have screwed them over in some way (union and non-union)

Just some food for thought based on your post.

If I ("you guys") violated the contract on a daily basis as you alledge, "we" would be long gone, while you hypocrites stroke your cash cow runners, who violate at the speed of profit, are left to your devices.
Turn your blind eye elsewhere.

 

[Bubblehead]

and if you bid on a route I ain't changing a d#$% thing based on your age or physical condition because you made the choice to work on the route, I am also not going to load you up either nothing to gain from that.

If I bid a route and you don't make the necessary adjustments, you will be paying me triple time for hours in excess of 9.5 daily.

I guarantee it.

BTW, I think it's OK to post the word damn?

 

[hellfire]

Don't even go there with "in good faith" as much you guys violate the contract on a daily basis...the grievance process is exactly that, a grievance process not an ultimatum from you to me.

I got one on the ropes now because he thought he was "given" the right to not to work as instructed (he grieved something and asked us to go look and look who we caught!), he wished he had followed the contract "in good faith" now.

Before you waive that union book in my face make sure you follow "everything" that is in it and don't pick and choose which one's you want to follow and the one's you don't, other wise you are a hypocrite like the rest of them.

and if you bid on a route I ain't changing a d#$% thing based on your age or physical condition because you made the choice to work on the route, I am also not going to load you up either nothing to gain from that.

We will always be in court, we are large corporation, some one will always feel that we have screwed them over in some way (union and non-union)

Just some food for thought based on your post.

Did you just get of the phone from your am DM degradation? You honestly can't expect a 22 yr old and a 50 yr old to operate on the same level of physical intensity. As I watch my coworkers age, myself included, Its almost depressing to see the level of physical damage done to ones body that this job causes. It would not surprise me to see some of these guys walk into the building with a cane.

 

[PT Car Washer]

Did you just get of the phone from your am DM degradation? You honestly can't expect a 22 yr old and a 50 yr old to operate on the same level of physical intensity. As I watch my coworkers age, myself included, Its almost depressing to see the level of physical damage done to ones body that this job causes. It would not surprise me to see some of these guys walk into the building with a cane.

Maybe not at the same physical level. Maybe. A lot depends on the individual. The older driver would definitely have the advantage on the mental level. Area knowledge, methods, experience.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Don't even go there with "in good faith" as much you guys violate the contract on a daily basis.

Really.

Have you filed a grievance, on all of these "alleged" contract violations ?


You do know.... the company can file a grievance.... right ?

And if you bid on a route I ain't changing a d#$% thing based on your age or physical condition because you made the choice to work on the route

You say that, like you have a choice in the matter.

I am also not going to load you up either nothing to gain from that.

And.... you are back to reality.


I'm just trying to understand your place on the Totem Pole. Because, it's not at the top.



-Bug-

 

[Mugarolla]

Did you just get of the phone from your am DM degradation? You honestly can't expect a 22 yr old and a 50 yr old to operate on the same level of physical intensity. As I watch my coworkers age, myself included, Its almost depressing to see the level of physical damage done to ones body that this job causes. It would not surprise me to see some of these guys walk into the building with a cane.

And if UPS does not continue to honor their agreement to make up any CSPF cuts, if they do happen, drivers walking in with a cane will be a common sight.

 

[Method$]

@Dragon, I may be in your center, I may be old (with a lot of seniority) I might just bid one of your most over dispatched (profitable) commercial routes and take and hour lunch 12:00-13:00 everyday, work by all the method$. Will you just eat the missed? Or will you violate the contract and harass me? Is it my fault I may be old? Is it my fault UPS lives in a delusional world?

 

[toonertoo]

Don't even go there with "in good faith" as much you guys violate the contract on a daily basis...the grievance process is exactly that, a grievance process not an ultimatum from you to me.

I got one on the ropes now because he thought he was "given" the right to not to work as instructed (he grieved something and asked us to go look and look who we caught!), he wished he had followed the contract "in good faith" now.

Before you waive that union book in my face make sure you follow "everything" that is in it and don't pick and choose which one's you want to follow and the one's you don't, other wise you are a hypocrite like the rest of them.

and if you bid on a route I ain't changing a d#$% thing based on your age or physical condition because you made the choice to work on the route, I am also not going to load you up either nothing to gain from that.

We will always be in court, we are large corporation, some one will always feel that we have screwed them over in some way (union and non-union)

Just some food for thought based on your post.

How about when you bid on a route, that because of Orion, and edd, and diad vs, paper, a route that once was, is nothing more than an albatros.

I bid on a route totally commercial, about 25 dr's. 85 stops. Now I have ghetto, and 130.
it was not like that when I bid on it. And nothing has changed except the numbers, which I no longer care about as I have beat myself to death, to achieve them and I cannot and no one does.

So now I get told, you bid on it,, dont want to hear crap about not being in the ghetto at night, its your route, if you dont like it bid on another. And they dont come up that often here.

Some days I dont even recognize it, and put me in a shooting gallery at dark, not cool. I actually had to follow another driver to my "first stop" as I had never been there. Well I cant say that anymore. I bid on a route, so I didnt have to deal with not knowing where I was. And the worst thing is to act like you dont know wtf, you are doing in the hood.

And I do not know how your metrics work when a route changes that much, but I know and so does everyone else, that it isnt correct. Just because a computer says what used to be 8 is now 6, and what should be 8 is 10.5, doesnt make it correct.

Just because they say it is 8 hrs, it is not. Saying it, printing it out doesnt make it so.

 

[undies]

I'm in my early 30's and was told I have the back of a 60-70 year old. Would this work in my favor if it came down to it?

 

[Coldworld]

Yes, I have used it, and they dont know what to say or do. And nothing changes, so I'll just keep doing it. But I have seen older drivers leave because of the harrassment. ~ Aint happening here.

Not you kiddo...lol you go gangsta...ette!!

 

[Coldworld]

Did you just get of the phone from your am DM degradation? You honestly can't expect a 22 yr old and a 50 yr old to operate on the same level of physical intensity. As I watch my coworkers age, myself included, Its almost depressing to see the level of physical damage done to ones body that this job causes. It would not surprise me to see some of these guys walk into the building with a cane.

Question... Is ups ohsa records available to the public, or ups employees??

 

[Coldworld]

I'm in my early 30's and was told I have the back of a 60-70 year old. Would this work in my favor if it came down to it?

Ups knows this job is breaking us down and they still push us day in day out... I honestly believe the union could put a halt to much of this but choose to turn their head...

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Ups knows this job is breaking us down and they still push us day in day out.

Push back, while following the methods.

The company likes the methods, when they don't look good on paper.

Other than that, they don't care.

That's where drivers get complacent.... and make (creative) stupid mistakes.

I honestly believe the union could put a halt to much of this but choose to turn their head...

The Union can't tell the company how to run their business.

But, can certainly hold them accountable to the contract language.

Working at UPS, is not for the "faint of heart".


The language is there.... if you utilize it.

If you choose not too, that's on you.



-Bug-

 

[Method$]

We have a senior driver (65+years) on a city route, stop count goes up when he's on vacation. Areas he doesn't do are added (very steep, yet short drive ways).

Managment will adjust, because in the end they are the ones who will look bad.