Thanks for the advise, i just hate for 5 people to get canned at this small center. I do keep track everyday, everyminute, but its worthless unless a union steward witness me clocking it and out.
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Stealing Time??
- Thread starter 1slickguy
- Start date
The standard way to prove that your time card is being shorted is to use a second personal time card to manually punch in and out every day. You use that same second time card all week or all month and it provides a record of your time worked. If necessary, you can have a respected steward or supervisor witness your punches.
Getting paid for all hours worked is one thing. Proving that your shorted hours were transfered to other people's paychecks is a seperate matter and isn't required to fix your paycheck shortage problem. (Though the investigation of the one may lead to the discovery of the other.)
Getting paid for all hours worked is one thing. Proving that your shorted hours were transfered to other people's paychecks is a seperate matter and isn't required to fix your paycheck shortage problem. (Though the investigation of the one may lead to the discovery of the other.)
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Our center (and I suspect a lot of centers) uses an electronic time clock. How would you use you second time card in this instance?
BTW, it was mentioned earlier that only a fool does not keep track of his hours on a daily basis. Well, I guess you can call me a fool, but I don't carry the little notebook that most of my co-workers do, jotting down their punch times. It has never been nor do I suspect that it ever will be an issue for me.
Dragon
Package Center Manager
SLC,
Who is giving you the screen shot from GTS? Is it the OMS or another supervisor? Any management person giving it to you is wrong. Any manager can quickly validate your claim. Here in our district, Security runs a program daily(not the one available on GTS) that shows all time card edits from prior day, center with highest edits gets audited daily. Its only a matter of time before your boy is targeted.
Who is giving you the screen shot from GTS? Is it the OMS or another supervisor? Any management person giving it to you is wrong. Any manager can quickly validate your claim. Here in our district, Security runs a program daily(not the one available on GTS) that shows all time card edits from prior day, center with highest edits gets audited daily. Its only a matter of time before your boy is targeted.
By manually punching it in the old style punch clock that sits next to the electronic time clock. (See the last paragraph of Article 12, which I quoted.)
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
By manually punching it in the old style punch clock that sits next to the electronic time clock. (See the last paragraph of Article 12, which I quoted.)
I will have to look Tuesday (I am off tomorrow) but I don't think the manual time clock is even there anymore.
lastoasis
Well-Known Member
we still have them to punch grievances and PH requests
Bubblehead
My Senior Picture
OK, I'll bite, you're a fool.
Your right!!
It has never been, nor will ever be an issue for you.
Because you won't know, nor will you be able to show a discrepancy.
Why do you think that "most of your co-workers" keep a record?
Could it be because it has been for many, an issue in the past?
I'm thinking from your earlier posts in this thread that you would be afraid to say anything about it to management any way.
It would put a target on your back for retaliation.
This forum seems to be the only place that you have any stones.
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UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Whatever.
blackcircle
Well-Known Member
It's happened to me a few times and I confronted them about it. They were trying to be sneaky about it and changing the minutes directly to decimal time. Apparently they thought 39 minutes was .39 hours, they never did this daily but took the running total for the week and used that conversion. They see me writing down my time every day and my check hasn't been short since.
Here in my center the skilled labor list is for the brown nosers. I've talked to preloaders and pick offs that aren't even on it while people unloading are and they never press the issue for fear of losing their jobs because the center manager simply told them no they weren't supposed to be on it. Our stewie is a pansy though, no backbone whatsoever.
Here in my center the skilled labor list is for the brown nosers. I've talked to preloaders and pick offs that aren't even on it while people unloading are and they never press the issue for fear of losing their jobs because the center manager simply told them no they weren't supposed to be on it. Our stewie is a pansy though, no backbone whatsoever.
I think the more important question here is how did you get your hands on 6 months of GTS screengrabs if you're a) not allowed to be in GTS as a part time employee and b) not a supervisor authorised to be in GTS. Sounds like you're going to have to answer for that as well if you take this any further.
Sounds like you've been doing some sneaking around of your own, and possibly (more than likely) on company time. It's fine if a shop steward asks for it on your behalf, but the supervisor has to be the one to provide it to the steward. Unless you've got another Sup involved in this and is providing these screengrabs to you, you're putting an innocent person's job in jeopardy. Stop while you think you're ahead.
The other thing I forgot to add is do you really believe you'll be able to give physical proof for your allegations to your management team aside from those screengrabs? I don't think you can back it up with just allegations and accusations and I don't believe you have a leg to stand on. Not going to lie, I'm looking at this from a supervisory stand point. I look at everything from the both sides of the fence. I go to bat and fight for my drivers when I know my On Roads are wrong in a decision they've made. It gets me in trouble a lot, but when you're wrong, you're wrong. I very sincerely feel that you're going to make an ass of yourself with this situation.
Sounds like you've been doing some sneaking around of your own, and possibly (more than likely) on company time. It's fine if a shop steward asks for it on your behalf, but the supervisor has to be the one to provide it to the steward. Unless you've got another Sup involved in this and is providing these screengrabs to you, you're putting an innocent person's job in jeopardy. Stop while you think you're ahead.
The other thing I forgot to add is do you really believe you'll be able to give physical proof for your allegations to your management team aside from those screengrabs? I don't think you can back it up with just allegations and accusations and I don't believe you have a leg to stand on. Not going to lie, I'm looking at this from a supervisory stand point. I look at everything from the both sides of the fence. I go to bat and fight for my drivers when I know my On Roads are wrong in a decision they've made. It gets me in trouble a lot, but when you're wrong, you're wrong. I very sincerely feel that you're going to make an ass of yourself with this situation.
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Anonymous 10
Guest
LMFAO I agree 1+ or +1 or whateverOK, I'll bite, you're a fool.
Your right!!
It has never been, nor will ever be an issue for you.
Because you won't know, nor will you be able to show a discrepancy.
Why do you think that "most of your co-workers" keep a record?
Could it be because it has been for many, an issue in the past?
I'm thinking from your earlier posts in this thread that you would be afraid to say anything about it to management any way.
It would put a target on your back for retaliation.
This forum seems to be the only place that you have any stones.
What happened to yawn did you wear that out?
bluehdmc
Well-Known Member
By manually punching it in the old style punch clock that sits next to the electronic time clock. (See the last paragraph of Article 12, which I quoted.)
I saw one in one building, don't think time was reset for daylight savings time.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
By manually punching it in the old style punch clock that sits next to the electronic time clock. (See the last paragraph of Article 12, which I quoted.)
The time clock our area punches into-out of has no manual punch. The manual punch is a 3 minute walk to the other side of the building, which will result in discrepancies.
Employees like you are not only putting their jobs at risk, but also underming our contract. The language is clear, extra contractual agreements are not allowed and for good reason. So, this has something to do with your fellow union brothers and sisters. Part of being union is not having to kiss ass to get extra favors. When you steal time it's at a cost of you fellow union members because while you leave, someone is left behind to do your work.
Why stop with going home early. Maybe if you do a little something more, you can get a preferred position, an extra week vacation, maybe even a company car to take home. Who cares about seniority, you have figured out how to side track all that.
Unfortunately, when the crap hits the fan, you my brother (or maybe my sister), will be the one to pay. UPS takes pride in terminating employees for dishonesty and you will be the fall person. It's happen before and will happen again.
Special treatment towards select employees is discrimination against the others.
705red
Browncafe Steward
How about filing a grievance for seniority? If you do have more seniority than the people you speak of, that work should be yours. This will gt labor looking in to why you are not getting the work and just might uncover this sup.
Was curious what would happen if you could prove that a supervisor was helping a couple people steal time? These guys never clock in or out, show up late and leave earlier. And yes i know they are cause i have screenshots of GTS showing everyone who is clocked in and these guys reading as if they weren't there, but i also have screenshots of those same days where everyone knows they left at say the 3 hour mark, but they are getting paid 4 1/2-5 everyday of the week when they always leave b4 they even get their 3 1/2 hours in.
Getting pretty dang sick of this special treatment stuff. Everyone else has to stay and get their time, but not only that these people bs around until other people do their job or leave early cause they'll still get paid in full.
Slickguy,
I am curious to know (and I apologize if you have answered this already), how do you have access to your operations GTS? I take it you are not a supervisor because even knowing about this and doing nothing is your job.
I am not questioning any truth to your story, however, I would advise you take the anonymous route if you acquired the password illegally. Taking screen shots, via through the computer or camera phone, could be considered stealing company property (inside information).
To tell you the honest truth, I cannot comprehend how something like this could happen over an extended period of time. In my HUB, employees would literally jump at the chance to blow this up in the face of a management employee. Is this a part time supervisor by the way? Where is his Full time supervisor? How is he not seeing this?
Also, one last thing...you said GTS shows the employees who have punched in and those who have not..perhaps your GTS system runs a little differently but I have never noticed in GTS employee timecards as showing punched in. Just "No timecard" and the finished timecard..
D
Dis-organized Labor
Guest
Thats why i haven't went to anyone, cause i don't want these guys to get fired, but i don't want my hard earned money given to these lazy ****s either.
Again this is why i came here to ask what do you think would happen, to get peoples opinion on the subject not to get bashed.
That's not how I read any of your previous comments. As an airline management person and don't know anything about ground, I also find it hard to believe some sup is doing this as you say.
My 2 cents are that you should bring your concerns to the center manager. If I had someone tell me that one of my sups was pulling the crap as you describe, and I didn't know about it, I would be head hunting to validate and whack all involved. I also agree with the mind your own business recommendations as some have given. It looks like you're past thatnow. Keep in mind with you keeping track of others, THAT time is not what you are on the payroll to do. Stealing time? Good luck.
I'm still extremely curious as to how he gained access to GTS as an hourly employee. I posed several questions to the OP in my initial post in this thread and am eagerly awaiting the answers.
Additionally, GTS doesn't show people punched in and not punched out as you've correctly stated. Will only show a no card. The only way it will show a timecard if an employee punched in and not out is the following day when the PTM/GTS prorgrams finally realise that the employee failed to punch out and it automatically triggers a punch out time after 20 or so some odd hours. At that point, we go to the employee and ask for the time he punched out and correct it and get the employee to sign it and we keep it in his file in our office.
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