What are you talking about? I was responding to the grievance procedure.
Step 1: file grievance or talk?
- Thread starter smapple
- Start date
By The Book
Well-Known Member
I thought that hourlies filed grievances, and management gave verbal warnings, thats where I was confused.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
He was referring to the first step of the grievance process being verbal.
People on here are saying the first step is to file a grievance if a sup is working, or some other grievable issue.
The first step of the grievance process is not to file a grievance, but to discuss it with the sup, or have the steward discuss it with the sup and try to get it worked out. Verbal.
The next step would be to file the grievance if an agreement was not reached.
UniteandWin
Well-Known Member
My opinion is to confront the contract violation verbally with your steward present. If and when the contract is violated again, the written grievance, with notes of a explanation to management that you tried to stop the violation verbally, that grievance becomes a better case
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dudebro
Well-Known Member
You should talk first. That's how civilized people resolve issues, even if mgmt is clearly in the wrong. There's a chance that the violation of the contract will stop through discussion. There's nothing to lose (you don't lose the right to file because you pointed the violation out), and a possible gain.
Just filing without looking someone in the eye and telling them of your intent to do so if activity x doesn't stop, is not really honorable. Pointing out that "management hasn't displayed any honor" doesn't make it honorable.
If the disrespect, etc, that many here are expecting actually occurs, it's only a few seconds delay from filing the grievance anyway, and you can tack on whatever language deals with treatment with respect.
In the end, all a grievance is, is more discussion anyway, with the possibility of a small financial penalty on the company, or not.
Just filing without looking someone in the eye and telling them of your intent to do so if activity x doesn't stop, is not really honorable. Pointing out that "management hasn't displayed any honor" doesn't make it honorable.
If the disrespect, etc, that many here are expecting actually occurs, it's only a few seconds delay from filing the grievance anyway, and you can tack on whatever language deals with treatment with respect.
In the end, all a grievance is, is more discussion anyway, with the possibility of a small financial penalty on the company, or not.
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UniteandWin
Well-Known Member
Why sink to Ups level and not try to talk about the violation. When the company ignores your request, hammer thier butts multiple grievances. That being said, a notation of initial verbal warning improves your credibility. Its chess not checkers
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Nimnim
The Nim
There's really no reason to not ask the PT/FT sup or Manager why sups are doing the hourly work and tell them you'll be filing if it doesn't stop. Worst case they don't stop and you file, best case they tell you to do it or assign a senior hourly in the area to do it. After you inform them of your intentions there's no reason to talk to them again and just file until it's corrected.
Sure you can file without talking to them first, but I believe it's preferred to solve things without the excessive paperwork and meetings that grievances can produce. Many members of supervision and management would rather eat a conference call about why someone hit overtime rather than dealing with the extra paperwork and conference calls about grievances.
Sure you can file without talking to them first, but I believe it's preferred to solve things without the excessive paperwork and meetings that grievances can produce. Many members of supervision and management would rather eat a conference call about why someone hit overtime rather than dealing with the extra paperwork and conference calls about grievances.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
When I say you need to talk first before filing a grievance, I mean that you, as a steward, need to verbally ask management if they are going to pay, as an example, the time that a sup worked.
If they say no, you followed the grievance procedure and the next step is to file the grievance.
If you are not a steward and want to grieve it, the process is to get with your steward. He or she needs to talk to management first, and if they refuse to pay, then the grievance is filed.
I don't mean to talk to management and give them the opportunity to try and fix the problem. They knew they violated the contract, and there are consequences.
If a sup is working, management does need to fix the problem but they also need to pay someone for the time that the sup worked.
Nimnim
The Nim
First, I'm not a steward so my options are ignore it, talk to them, or get a steward to talk to them and file a grievance.
Second, this thread was about precharge (which I assume to be early start setup work) and wrapup (cleaning up at the end of the shift.) If I show up 15 minutes before a normal start for me on the midnight shift and the twilight sup is loading a trailer I can say to them, "Hey, why're you loading the trailer. An hourly should be doing it and I'll grieve it if you continue." At that point they either tell me to load it, get another hourly to do it or keep doing it knowing I'll grieve it. Nothing lost, either I or someone else gets paid to work or I file a grievance. No reason to run off to get a steward to talk to them for something I can handle with one statement. If they continue working and I file a grievance I just state I addressed the contract violation to them and they continued to violate.
Stewards are great, but a strong union also relies on strong members who know how to follow the contract as well. Running to a steward over a clear cut violation doesn't solve it any faster than telling them you're going to file if they continue. If they stop, done. If they don't you get with the steward and file.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
I didn't say to run off and get a steward. You don't need a steward present when you ask why a sup is working. Tell the sup that you will start early and do the work, but also ask to be paid for the time that he did work.
If the sup refuses, you then need a steward to process your grievance. An employee can fill out a grievance asking to be paid for the time a sup is working, but the grievance needs to be processed through a steward.
Some areas may accept a grievance from an employee, but they don't have to. A grievance needs to be processed through a steward and the steward needs to talk to management to try and settle the grievance first.
If the company is unwilling to pay the employee, the grievance then gets filed and processed by the steward.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I would agree with this if Ninnim showed up at his start time and saw the sup working. He stated that he was there 15 minutes early and, as such, was not yet on the clock when he approached the sup in question. I think the better question at that point would have been should Nimmin have asked to punch in and taken over loading the trailer.
He should offer to punch in.When the sup says no,then you file.
oldngray
nowhere special
Always talk before you file.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
The problem here is he was not on the clock and as such was not really supposed to be in that area before his start time.
How is this different from an hourly who punches out and then goes back to his work area to make sure there are no sups working?
Then the steward needs to come in early. He is allowed to be there to investigate.
Besides that ,I'm not sure if their is a rule on how early you can be at work before your start time.
I'm usually at work 20-30 minutes before my start time. I've seen preload sups working and have asked them if they needed me to start early.
Sometimes they said yes. Sometimes they quit working.
Sometimes that's works. Sometimes it causes more crap than just filing.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I can see drivers showing up to work early as they have to gather what they will need for the day. PTers really have no reason to show up early.
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