oldngray
nowhere special
I saw people lose grievances because they didn't follow the proper steps and talk first to try to resolve the issue before filing.
Step 1: file grievance or talk?
- Thread starter smapple
- Start date
I saw people lose grievances because they didn't follow the proper steps and talk first to try to resolve the issue before filing.
Maybe they take a bus to work and get there a little early.
Should they wait outside?
I don't know the answer.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
No, they shouldn't wait outside, but they also shouldn't be wandering around the building.
oldngray
nowhere special
They shouldn't wander around off the clock but nothing wrong with being there ready to start a few minutes early. If they see a sup working they can tell him to stop or ask to be put on the clock.
Not sure if that's really your job to talk to the supervisor. Remember who we work for.
Trust me,I fought many of battles over supervisors working. Not much of a problem anymore
But once us old-timers are gone,who knows?
Not saying wondering around the building.
But if you are in your designated starting area and notice a supervisor working.
Then what?
oldngray
nowhere special
Often, especially for part timers there may not be a steward around when things happen.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Bring it to the attention of an hourly who is on the clock?
That's why we spy on the reload.
We won some big grievances for the part timers.
Then the DM called us out and said if you want to file,then you unload.
After two weeks of paying us top dollar,they hired a few more people
Or have a steward that shows up a little early or vote a new one in.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Stewards have lives outside of UPS just like the rest of us.
Its a thankless job. Don't take it if you aren't willing to do what it takes.
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
Lot of opinions here, but I wonder how many of them actually file anything. There are some good ideas, and I accept we have our own way of handling things. My thought was, you mention, "that's hourly work, and an hourly should be doing that work". The sup should stop - HE WON"T. That was the talk. Now you file. If you want, you can just go straight to file, and not mention it. Sometimes in the grievance, the manager in a sincere tone will ask; why didn't you bring it to our attention"? I feel the better response is, 'I did, and the sup continued to work". If you like the response of; because I didn't have to". Well then go ahead. In my scenario, you don't leave room for the BA or Steward to say crap like; okay, we've warned them, and next time we'll expect payment".
The worse thing you can do, is start debating the issue. Don't explain it. Your not there to educate and explain the violation. You tell them - and your on your way to get the form. The violation has already taken place. Your just a nice guy and letting them know, THEY SCREWED UP.
What the majority of guys do, is go in, and start debating the issue. Arguing the violation. Threaten, bark bark bark - and no grievance. You've just let management know, your harmless and nothing but bark. Your the last guy they are going to ever listen to.
There is also no reason for any driver, to be in his car before his start time. NO REASON. If your rationalizing it with, I have to prepare this or that, so you can be in there a minute early. Then you are just part of the problem. I'm the guy you hated. I'm the guy who went in 1/2 hr, and walked to every car and took down names, and wrote grievances. They stopped the drivers after 3 weeks. Was expensive to pay. Just kept turning in the grievances every 3 days!
No threat. No barking, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. Just repeated grievances. How many guys do you have in cars, prior to their start times, now? Probably more in cars, than standing at the center waiting for the PCM (if they have them anymore). I seen this for so many years. We cut our own throats, and we're too stupid to do anything about it. That's why the company is winning.
and you're losing.
The worse thing you can do, is start debating the issue. Don't explain it. Your not there to educate and explain the violation. You tell them - and your on your way to get the form. The violation has already taken place. Your just a nice guy and letting them know, THEY SCREWED UP.
What the majority of guys do, is go in, and start debating the issue. Arguing the violation. Threaten, bark bark bark - and no grievance. You've just let management know, your harmless and nothing but bark. Your the last guy they are going to ever listen to.
There is also no reason for any driver, to be in his car before his start time. NO REASON. If your rationalizing it with, I have to prepare this or that, so you can be in there a minute early. Then you are just part of the problem. I'm the guy you hated. I'm the guy who went in 1/2 hr, and walked to every car and took down names, and wrote grievances. They stopped the drivers after 3 weeks. Was expensive to pay. Just kept turning in the grievances every 3 days!
No threat. No barking, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna do that. Just repeated grievances. How many guys do you have in cars, prior to their start times, now? Probably more in cars, than standing at the center waiting for the PCM (if they have them anymore). I seen this for so many years. We cut our own throats, and we're too stupid to do anything about it. That's why the company is winning.
and you're losing.
542thruNthru
Well-Known Member
I'm sure you will disagree but he has just as much right as you do to show up early. You show up early to gather supplies and look at your route to prepare for the day. You are not on the clock and essentially working. That's breaking the rules. To many drivers think they are above the rules but think pt should follow them.
He shows up early to be prepared for work. When I was pt we were told we had to be there 10 min before start time. As long as he isn't disrupting other employees there should be no issue.
Since I know you will disagree please explain to me why you as a driver are exempt from the rules everyone else is held to?
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
No, he shouldn't ask to punch in. I'm assuming Nummin isn't dispatching. it is up to the sup/mgr to decide who punches in, according to the work rules. Don't involve yourself, anymore than you have to. Doesn't make sense!
You guys must be really good at driving on the highway with all of that pass practice
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
Doesn't refer to driving. It refers to what quarterbacks do.
Thanks for everyone's input, Update:
Talked to sups both pt and ft and the steward, talked with some older guys who've been here 15+ years. Seems like everyone who's filed a grievance were eventually put on suspension for a long period or fired for bogus reasons although most come back. This actually explains at lot of why sups seem to antagonize certain hourlies. I know myself well enough that I'm not aware or invested enough in the job to watch my back every night or not blow up at a sup for hassling me. I'm gonna just do minimum work for my 3.5 hrs and focus on my 2nd job more.
Talked to sups both pt and ft and the steward, talked with some older guys who've been here 15+ years. Seems like everyone who's filed a grievance were eventually put on suspension for a long period or fired for bogus reasons although most come back. This actually explains at lot of why sups seem to antagonize certain hourlies. I know myself well enough that I'm not aware or invested enough in the job to watch my back every night or not blow up at a sup for hassling me. I'm gonna just do minimum work for my 3.5 hrs and focus on my 2nd job more.
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
Not that good, but getting better!
twoweeled
Well-Known Member
Well that is what probably 90% of drivers do. Although few will admit it. You'll hear a lot of big talk, and you find out later, they've filed "maybe" 5 grievances in 5 years. Maybe not even that. Management will start looking at everything you do, and it can and probably will become a war. That is why, some of the people have been fired (at least once)! Drivers are probably more under the gun. But management is having a hard time keeping part timers (YMMV). Better to not say anything, than to make a big fuss, and not do anything (in my opinion). Do what you feel is best, because it will escalate to a war. If everyone stood up, management couldn't battle everyone - but there's probably only 3-5 hardcore guys in the center that do daily battle with them.
In the case of drivers - management will fire you, the first solid opportunity anyway - they just don't look as hard at the guys who don't say anything.
You should do what works best for you. Plan ahead.
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