Storming the Capitol

[Box Ox]

No you won't, you'll let the media give you another BS reason to vote Democrat, because you want to vote Democrat, because you're a Democrat.

Just own it man. This need to view yourself as "independent" is just silly.

OK, I guess I will!

2020 Presidential Updates | Current Events

 

[bbsam]

There's not much a President can do when local governments decide they're going to hobble or dismantle their law enforcement agencies for political purposes. Many have done so. And zero black lives have been saved by their efforts when the huge increases in crime are taken into account.

C’mon now. His rhetoric certainly wasn’t helpful. “...hobble or dismantle their law enforcement...”? That’s hardly definitive. We’ve seen hardline police tactics have disastrous effects as well. Philadelphia 199x comes to mind. Zero black lives saved? That’s impossible to say.

Basically you’re arguing that you don’t like the tactics and if only they would do things your way, all would be fine or at least far better. That’s simply not something that can be proved.

 

[Box Ox]

C’mon now. His rhetoric certainly wasn’t helpful. “...hobble or dismantle their law enforcement...”? That’s hardly definitive. We’ve seen hardline police tactics have disastrous effects as well. Philadelphia 199x comes to mind. Zero black lives saved? That’s impossible to say.

Basically you’re arguing that you don’t like the tactics and if only they would do things your way, all would be fine or at least far better. That’s simply not something that can be proved.

CNN, April 3, 2021:

The US saw significant crime rise across major cities in 2020. And it's not letting up

"Major American cities saw a 33% increase in homicides last year as a pandemic swept across the country, millions of people joined protests against racial injustice and police brutality, and the economy collapsed under the weight of the pandemic — a crime surge that has continued into the first quarter of this year.

Sixty-three of the 66 largest police jurisdictions saw increases in at least one category of violent crimes in 2020, which include homicide, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault, according to a report produced by the Major Cities Chiefs Association."

Experts point to a "perfect storm" of factors -- economic collapse, social anxiety because of a pandemic, de-policing in major cities after protests that called for abolition of police departments, shifts in police resources from neighborhoods to downtown areas because of those protests, and the release of criminal defendants pretrial or before sentences were completed to reduce risk of Covid-19 spread in jails -- all may have contributed to the spike in homicides."

"In Chicago, homicides are up 33% in the first three months of the year compared to 2020, while shootings are up nearly 40% for the same period year-over-year. In New York City, the NYPD data shows murders jumped by nearly 14% through March 28, the latest numbers the department has made public, while shootings were up nearly 50%.

In Los Angeles, homicides have increased nearly 36% from 67 to 91 through March 30, LAPD Officer Rosario Cervantes told CNN. Those three cities -- the nation's largest -- all saw significant increases last year over 2019.

The homicide uptick in the three cities comes as Chicago, Houston, and Memphis saw some of the largest surges in homicides last year, with an increase of 100 or more killings compared to 2019. Chicago had a single day with 18 homicides, the largest number for the city on record."

 

[bbsam]

You are being a bit disingenuous with the article. It references a “perfect storm” and concludes with “may have contributed”. It does not make the concrete conclusion that you infer nor does it claim that these are the only factors involved. Does it mention the vast increase in gun permits and sales? The relaxed requirements for conceal carry permits? What else doesn’t it mention? What else could be listed under “may have contributed”?

That’s a pretty dirty game to play with an article and a pretty weak assertion for an article to make without the “experts” diving pretty deep into each crime, it’s motivations and commission.

 

[Box Ox]

Does it mention the vast increase in gun permits and sales? The relaxed requirements for conceal carry permits? What else doesn’t it mention?

Do you really think those who legally obtained their firearms and concealed carry permits were the ones responsible for the increase in crime rates in major urban centers over the past year?

That’s a pretty dirty game to play with an article and a pretty weak assertion for an article to make without the “experts” diving pretty deep into each crime, it’s motivations and commission.

Uh huh. Sure it is. Police backed off in the urban areas that openly hate them and/or politely told them to off for a while because their mere presence was supposedly super triggering. And homicides, rapes, robberies, and aggravated assaults significantly increased. It's not rocket science.

 

[MAKAVELI]

Do you really think those who legally obtained their firearms and concealed carry permits were the ones responsible for the increase in crime rates in major urban centers over the past year?


Uh huh. Sure it is. Police backed off in the urban areas that openly hate them and/or politely told them to * off for a while because their mere presence was supposedly super triggering. And homicides, rapes, robberies, and aggravated assaults significantly increased. It's not rocket science.

What about the areas that increased where the police didn't back off?

 

[bbsam]

Do you really think those who legally obtained their firearms and concealed carry permits were the ones responsible for the increase in crime rates in major urban centers over the past year?


Uh huh. Sure it is. Police backed off in the urban areas that openly hate them and/or politely told them to * off for a while because their mere presence was supposedly super triggering. And homicides, rapes, robberies, and aggravated assaults significantly increased. It's not rocket science.

Do you think criminals sit around thinking about police tactics before they commit crimes? Rapists figure out when the cops have a shift change? News flash for you. Criminals commit crimes because they don’t believe they will be caught. They never do. They never have. How police respond does not cause the crime nor does it mean the crimes will go unsolved. We’ve seen crime rise and fall over the decades. Someday maybe we’ll figure out that “x,y, and z may or may not contribute to an increase (or decrease) in crime rates.”

And I think that the mere fact that legally owned and purchased guns shows a spike in all kinds of tensions that indicate a far more likely spike in crimes whether it’s in the form of a drive by killing or a domestic dispute taken to the extreme.

 

[Box Ox]

What about the areas that increased where the police didn't back off?

What about them? That can happen too. Usually not at a 33%-50% year over year rate of increase in areas whose police forces haven't backed off.

Do you think criminals sit around thinking about police tactics before they commit crimes? Rapists figure out when the cops have a shift change? News flash for you. Criminals commit crimes because they don’t believe they will be caught.

Glad we apparently agree that "de-policing in major cities after protests that called for abolition of police departments [and] shifts in police resources from neighborhoods to downtown areas because of those protests" probably are causes of the increased crime rates.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

You are being a bit disingenuous with the article. It references a “perfect storm” and concludes with “may have contributed”. It does not make the concrete conclusion that you infer nor does it claim that these are the only factors involved. Does it mention the vast increase in gun permits and sales? The relaxed requirements for conceal carry permits? What else doesn’t it mention? What else could be listed under “may have contributed”?

That’s a pretty dirty game to play with an article and a pretty weak assertion for an article to make without the “experts” diving pretty deep into each crime, it’s motivations and commission.

More police equals less crime.
Less police equals more crime.
These facts aren't complicated homie.

 

[PT 4 Life]

it is when you're a small business owner and you're watching your livelyhood and that of your employees go up in smoke.

we need to have that same empathy with those who die at the hands of police. You can rebuild your business, can’t bring back the dead.

 

[PT 4 Life]

so all the shooters in chicago just need a hug?

no they could use some guidance

 

[vantexan]

What do you believe a coup is?

Forcing out a government by seizing power. Can be a "bloodless" coup, when the leadership has no choice but to step down in the face of certain bloodshed, and is allowed to leave. Usually a country's military leadership decides to seize power either because of a lust for power or in some cases a concern that the elected leadership is hurting the country. A small group of mostly middle aged men with no weapons, just a lot of rhetoric, is in no position to force out our government and take over. It's a silly proposition no matter how you look at it.

 

[vantexan]

we need to have that same empathy with those who die at the hands of police. You can rebuild your business, can’t bring back the dead.

You seem to never mention how many cops die in the line of duty. How that most people who die in these situations refused not only to follow lawful orders but resisted arrest to the point of attacking cops, often with weapons. There are certainly bad cops doing bad things, but they are a fraction of the police force that almost always handles things professionally and fairly. And in high crime neighborhoods have an extremely stressful and dangerous job trying to keep the public safe.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

we need to have that same empathy with those who die at the hands of police. You can rebuild your business, can’t bring back the dead.

What a stupid comparison.

 

[PT 4 Life]

What a stupid comparison.

So property more important than human life?

 

[PT 4 Life]

You seem to never mention how many cops die in the line of duty. How that most people who die in these situations refused not only to follow lawful orders but resisted arrest to the point of attacking cops, often with weapons. There are certainly bad cops doing bad things, but they are a fraction of the police force that almost always handles things professionally and fairly. And in high crime neighborhoods have an extremely stressful and dangerous job trying to keep the public safe.

It’s unfortunate if anyone dies. The issue is cops killing people not cops dying on duty.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

So property more important than human life?

They are not comparable.
Your comparison is stupid.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

It’s unfortunate if anyone dies.

Not really.

 

[PT 4 Life]

They are not comparable.
Your comparison is stupid.

it’s not stupid “oh those evil rioters” ppffft please. People are fed up. This has been going on for years. The difference now is that you have camera phones to capture it more.

 

[vantexan]

It’s unfortunate if anyone dies. The issue is cops killing people not cops dying on duty.

Cops kill people who are trying to kill them, trying to not become one of the cops who die on duty. The George Floyd situations are few and far between. The whole narrative of white cops systematically killing black men is extraordinarily overblown. Many blacks believe that's the primary cause of violent black deaths when in reality most black murders are committed by other blacks. And in disproportionately higher numbers than what happens in other racial groups. That's the reality but not what is being pushed by both black and white political leaders. Fear gets votes. And money.