Student pilot curious about advancement

[Dakota Phelps]

Hello everyone, I'm a 21 yr old student pilot currently working part-time as a pre-loader and finishing up on my private pilots license. My long term goal is to eventually land a professional position in aviation. I have a few questions for anyone who may have information I'm looking for. Thanks in advance!

1) Is there any kind of training or aid offered to student/private pilots through UPS that I am unaware of?

It is extremely hard and expensive to meet the 1000 hrs of flight time requirement for pilots without a job flying. In my opinion, it would make sense for the company to help potential pilots build that flight time with a co-pilot position or something similar, right?

2) From what I've seen, UPS seems to prefer hiring/promoting employees from within. Is this the same for pilots?

3) Are there any additional steps I should be taking to improve my chances of landing a position in aviation? Like maybe somewhere I can put my name out so that the company knows I'm already working on and am interested becoming a pilot?

All other info that you think may be useful concerning my advancement in the aviation field (UPS or not) is welcome!

 

[oldngray]

ask @FrigidFTSup

 

[BrownTexas]

From my understanding all or most Ups pilots are retired from an aviation position from a branded company or military. Pilots aren't covered as a UPS teamster so senior means jack. You have a better chance trying to fly for the military and hoping after retirement UPS will hire you.

 

[MC4YOU2]

You may find this useful.

http://www.ipapilot.org/

 

[FrigidFTSup]

You're not going to love my answers, sorry in advance.

1) Is there any kind of training or aid offered to student/private pilots through UPS that I am unaware of?

Nope. You're going to have to finance it yourself. You may be able to get some scholarships, but other than that you are on your own. Some regional airlines offer programs through Part 141 Universities to hire you your junior year, then have you instruct until you reach the required time.

It is extremely hard and expensive to meet the 1000 hrs of flight time requirement for pilots without a job flying. In my opinion, it would make sense for the company to help potential pilots build that flight time with a co-pilot position or something similar, right?

Read more into the rule. ATP is 1500 hours unless you go to a school with a waiver. Your regular everyday flight school is NOT a Part 141 school, but Part 61. If you don't have classroom instruction with a set TCO, you are in a Part 61. If you want to save money, I recommend looking into a Part 141.

2) From what I've seen, UPS seems to prefer hiring/promoting employees from within. Is this the same for pilots?

No, it's not like a bid sheet goes up and you get a FT Pilot Bid.

3) Are there any additional steps I should be taking to improve my chances of landing a position in aviation? Like maybe somewhere I can put my name out so that the company knows I'm already working on and am interested becoming a pilot?

You've gotta look into good flight schools and save your money. But you also have to remember things are going to be tough for a while after you get all your licenses. I'm sitting on 65,000 in debt for flight fees alone. I have my Commercial multi engine license, and a CRJ type rating.

There's a reason I'm a FT ORS and not a pilot. I would have taken a pay cut going from being a PT Sup to a FT Pilot. If you love aviation that is great, I do too. But you have to realize it isn't as great as they make it out to be. Do you eventually end up sitting pretty? Absolutely, but these days the investment costs are very high. To get hired at UPS as a pilot is very difficult too. You need 3500 hours total time, usually at LEAST 1500 turbine. Doing right seat in a Cessna as a flight instructor doesn't get you that. To get the turbine time you'll either need to fly for a regional or a small feeder operation. Even then though, it's tough to get on the list.

 

[cosmo1]

^^Buzzkill.

 

[burrheadd]

You're not going to love my answers, sorry in advance.

Nope. You're going to have to finance it yourself. You may be able to get some scholarships, but other than that you are on your own. Some regional airlines offer programs through Part 141 Universities to hire you your junior year, then have you instruct until you reach the required time.

Read more into the rule. ATP is 1500 hours unless you go to a school with a waiver. Your regular everyday flight school is NOT a Part 141 school, but Part 61. If you don't have classroom instruction with a set TCO, you are in a Part 61. If you want to save money, I recommend looking into a Part 141.

No, it's not like a bid sheet goes up and you get a FT Pilot Bid.


You've gotta look into good flight schools and save your money. But you also have to remember things are going to be tough for a while after you get all your licenses. I'm sitting on 65,000 in debt for flight fees alone. I have my Commercial multi engine license, and a CRJ type rating.

There's a reason I'm a FT ORS and not a pilot. I would have taken a pay cut going from being a PT Sup to a FT Pilot. If you love aviation that is great, I do too. But you have to realize it isn't as great as they make it out to be. Do you eventually end up sitting pretty? Absolutely, but these days the investment costs are very high. To get hired at UPS as a pilot is very difficult too. You need 3500 hours total time, usually at LEAST 1500 turbine. Doing right seat in a Cessna as a flight instructor doesn't get you that. To get the turbine time you'll either need to fly for a regional or a small feeder operation. Even then though, it's tough to get on the list.

Nah^^*
Just sign the bid sheet

 

[barnyard]

Frigid gives good advice.

New pilots make less than PT preloaders. You need to consider, very carefully, how long you want to live in poverty and whether you will make enough over your lifetime to pay off your debt.

Google around a bit. I have read articles about pilots that live in campers near airports, because that is what they can afford.

The military is a very good suggestion.

 

[trickpony1]

The OP has a better chance of winning Powerball.

 

[Indecisi0n]

Does PC simulators count? I can do full circles mid flight.

 

[Dakota Phelps]

You're not going to love my answers, sorry in advance.

Obviously not the responses I was hoping for, but more or less what I was expecting. I wanted to be surprised with some good news. I was aware scoring a job like this would be difficult going into it. Still, very solid and straight forward info there.
I had never heard of the difference between a Part 61 and 141 school, I'll definitely look into that more. In hopes of saving me time researching myself, are there part 141 schools you know of that are approved for UPS's education assistance, if any at all?
Also, I have a few more questions for you personally, if you don't mind..
I'm new to the site.. What exactly is your position of ORS?
How did you come about racking up time for your commercial license?
Since you're already $65k in debt for aviation related stuff, would you consider adding a few extra g's to that number in order to help out a young, handsome, aspiring student pilot such as myself?

 

[FrigidFTSup]

Frigid gives good advice.

New pilots make less than PT preloaders. You need to consider, very carefully, how long you want to live in poverty and whether you will make enough over your lifetime to pay off your debt.

Google around a bit. I have read articles about pilots that live in campers near airports, because that is what they can afford.

The military is a very good suggestion.

Military is actually even more difficult these days. Turnover is very low for those guys right now. Something like 95% of the open spots are for unmanned aircraft. That gives you no leg up when it comes to applying in the real world. Airlines don't care how many hours you sat in an intermodal container playing with a joy stick. They want real seat time.

 

[Nike]

You can forget working for UPS as a pilot or FedEx for that matter. My understanding is that they are highly sought after. Why you ask? Because you dont have to deal with people, their problems and such.
You want advice? Go after crop dusting. Can get you some seat time, minimal risk, and some places pay pretty decent.

 

[FrigidFTSup]

Obviously not the responses I was hoping for, but more or less what I was expecting. I wanted to be surprised with some good news. I was aware scoring a job like this would be difficult going into it. Still, very solid and straight forward info there.
I had never heard of the difference between a Part 61 and 141 school, I'll definitely look into that more. In hopes of saving me time researching myself, are there part 141 schools you know of that are approved for UPS's education assistance, if any at all?
Also, I have a few more questions for you personally, if you don't mind..
I'm new to the site.. What exactly is your position of ORS?
How did you come about racking up time for your commercial license?
Since you're already $65k in debt for aviation related stuff, would you consider adding a few extra g's to that number in order to help out a young, handsome, aspiring student pilot such as myself?

If you don't know what a Part 61 school is you better start hitting the FARs hard because they're going to nail you on the final check ride. Get your head in the FAR/AIM now and give yourself a leg up.

For education assistance it will only be for 4 year Universities. There are 5 or 6 that offer a 4 year commercial aviation degree.

ORS is on road sup.

I got my time in flight instructing. I was guaranteed a job from my flight school if I went through the CFI and CFII courses. I never did it full time, was just a way to supplement my income while I was in school. I still instruct now and then. But it's mostly just been for fun with my fiancée.

I have enough debt, sorry!

 

[Brownslave688]

If you don't know what a Part 61 school is you better start hitting the FARs hard because they're going to nail you on the final check ride. Get your head in the FAR/AIM now and give yourself a leg up.

For education assistance it will only be for 4 year Universities. There are 5 or 6 that offer a 4 year commercial aviation degree.

ORS is on road sup.

I got my time in flight instructing. I was guaranteed a job from my flight school if I went through the CFI and CFII courses. I never did it full time, was just a way to supplement my income while I was in school. I still instruct now and then. But it's mostly just been for fun with my fiancée.

I have enough debt, sorry!

TLDR.

 

[burrheadd]

You can forget working for UPS as a pilot or FedEx for that matter. My understanding is that they are highly sought after. Why you ask? Because you dont have to deal with people, their problems and such.
You want advice? Go after crop dusting. Can get you some seat time, minimal risk, and some places pay pretty decent.

Do you need a license to "crop dust"
@indecision

 

[FrigidFTSup]

You can forget working for UPS as a pilot or FedEx for that matter. My understanding is that they are highly sought after. Why you ask? Because you dont have to deal with people, their problems and such.
You want advice? Go after crop dusting. Can get you some seat time, minimal risk, and some places pay pretty decent.

It's because they pay so well. Nobody cares about the back of the plane. You're sealed off from the back anyways.

And crop dusting is not anywhere near minimal risk. More people died last year in crop dusters than commercial airliners in the US. Those guys are insane pilots.

 

[Box Ox]

More people died last year in crop dusters than commercial airliners in the US. Those guys are insane pilots.

And thank God for that. They might be the only ones who can save us if aliens show up in City Destroyers.

 

[Wally]

The OP has a better chance of winning Powerball.

I tried to win, but my plan crashed and burned.

 

[Indecisi0n]

Do you need a license to "crop dust"
@indecision

I been crop dusting elevators since I was a kid.