Supervisors at center not having routes set before start time saying we can't bump

[Thebrownblob]

This is how it works in my center. If a rpcd is driving on a sarurday, they get last pick of what route they want after all 22.4s. Its their scheduled work day, not the rpcd. So they have more seniority on that day.

And again, different rules, different places, and that rule in particular makes no sense, especially if a driver is forced. Perhaps if it’s a voluntary Saturday and they’re extra, but if you’re forced, how can your seniority be ignored? 22.4 here really don’t get to pick, they are assign, even if there are no regular RPCDs although it does benefit the company to put people in areas, they will do better.

 

[Wally]

At our center they tell us we have a 15 minutes before start time rule to be able to bump to a route but most days recently they have extras in the middle and are asking people if they want to go home til past start time then they put whoever they want on a route and won't allow you to say that you want that route instead of the lower seniority guy they move to it. What can be done about this? If there is a 15 minute rule then they should be held to having the routes set 15 min before too.

Sounds like they are playing "cell phone senority".

Shut it down. No one goes home before start time.

If you really need the day off, keep the mouth shut and call in sick.

 

[ManInBrown]

At our center they tell us we have a 15 minutes before start time rule to be able to bump to a route but most days recently they have extras in the middle and are asking people if they want to go home til past start time then they put whoever they want on a route and won't allow you to say that you want that route instead of the lower seniority guy they move to it. What can be done about this? If there is a 15 minute rule then they should be held to having the routes set 15 min before too.

Total BS. You have no responsibility to show up to work 15 or 20 minutes early off the clock to bump onto a route. When I was in package they tried that here. Union put a stop to it real fast. I used to walk in the door at 8:48 for 8:50 start. You bump after the pcm if need be.

 

[Cowboy Mac]

As long as it says you can't, you can. Only when it states there is a difference in what RPCD's can do and what 22.4 can do, both are full time drivers.

You are a 22.4 Full Time Combination Driver. In the southern region, article 48.6 talks about bidding and seniority. Unfortunately for 22.4s, they use the term “package car driver”.

I believe that the term should mean any employee who drives a package car, but the panels did not see it this way. They interpret it as “RPCD”.

So again I think it’s BS because you guys can’t bid on permanent routes or vacation coverage, but this is what happens when we have vague language. The company takes advantage of it to their benefit, and panels being unpredictable sometimes side with the company and the decision is binding.

Why don't you tell everyone where it says that 22.4's have no right to bump ? We do it at my center each day. We even bump RPCD's on Saturdays since Saturdays are our day.

RPCDs are not supposed to work on Saturday because it is not a scheduled work day for us. 22.4s have seniority on this day.

Article 22.4(B)-5 says that you are guaranteed 8 consecutive hours of straight time pay per day. It does not say whether you get the hours driving or inside.

Section 6 basically says to refer to the supplements for anything not listed in the NMA in regards to 22.4s:

As far as route selection on Saturdays, I think it’s BS as well because we left the door wide open in the 2018 contract for the company to assign routes on Saturdays however they want.

We also didn’t foresee the volume shift from Monday to Saturday, causing Mondays to be light and Tues-Saturday to be heavy. In my center we have so many routes that are cut on Mondays but run Tues-Fri or Tues-Sat. We can’t get them put up for bid because technically they aren’t run consecutively for 30 days. It’s another loophole the company took advantage of to reduce their labor costs.

I’d like to have a nickel for every time I heard someone who had no idea what they were reading tell me….”they’ve read the contract”
OK great did you read all the interpretation booklets? Have you been to panels and heard all the decisions?

What is an interpretation booklet? Is that something that strong locals have?

 

[Thebrownblob]

You are a 22.4 Full Time Combination Driver. In the southern region, article 48.6 talks about bidding and seniority. Unfortunately for 22.4s, they use the term “package car driver”.

I believe that the term should mean any employee who drives a package car, but the panels did not see it this way. They interpret it as “RPCD”.

So again I think it’s BS because you guys can’t bid on permanent routes or vacation coverage, but this is what happens when we have vague language. The company takes advantage of it to their benefit, and panels being unpredictable sometimes side with the company and the decision is binding.

RPCDs are not supposed to work on Saturday because it is not a scheduled work day for us. 22.4s have seniority on this day.

Article 22.4(B)-5 says that you are guaranteed 8 consecutive hours of straight time pay per day. It does not say whether you get the hours driving or inside.

Section 6 basically says to refer to the supplements for anything not listed in the NMA in regards to 22.4s:

View attachment 430843

As far as route selection on Saturdays, I think it’s BS as well because we left the door wide open in the 2018 contract for the company to assign routes on Saturdays however they want.

We also didn’t foresee the volume shift from Monday to Saturday, causing Mondays to be light and Tues-Saturday to be heavy. In my center we have so many routes that are cut on Mondays but run Tues-Fri or Tues-Sat. We can’t get them put up for bid because technically they aren’t run consecutively for 30 days. It’s another loophole the company took advantage of to reduce their labor costs.

What is an interpretation booklet? Is that something that strong locals have?

Yes, there’s a huge book of interpretations and decisions compiled for many many years.
And I like your breakdown of the strengths and weaknesses of the language.
Regardless of what anyone thinks on this thread, my sincere hope is that 22.4 is eliminated because it waters down our jobs and seniority. 22.4 deserve to be RPCDs as most of them really work only as that most of this contract.

 

[Cowboy Mac]

Yes, there’s a huge book of interpretations and decisions compiled for many many years.
And I like your breakdown of the strengths and weaknesses of the language.
Regardless of what anyone thinks on this thread, my sincere hope is that 22.4 is eliminated because it waters down our jobs and seniority. 22.4 deserve to be RPCDs as most of them really work only as that most of this contract.

Thank you. I also hope they do away with the classification, but it also scares me that with the change in the contract comes more opportunities for loopholes.

And we still have Saturday ground operation to deal with as well. I just hope they get it right at the bargaining table.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Thank you. I also hope they do away with the classification, but it also scares me that with the change in the contract comes more opportunities for loopholes.

And we still have Saturday ground operation to deal with as well. I just hope they get it right at the bargaining table.

I agree the company loves loopholes. Seems like it would benefit the company on Saturday to do away with 22.4 Schedule, wise. Just RPCDs scheduled by seniority, ask from the top force from the bottom scheduling. No more of this nonsense forcing six days.

 

[Michael Scott]

And again, different rules, different places, and that rule in particular makes no sense, especially if a driver is forced. Perhaps if it’s a voluntary Saturday and they’re extra, but if you’re forced, how can your seniority be ignored? 22.4 here really don’t get to pick, they are assign, even if there are no regular RPCDs although it does benefit the company to put people in areas, they will do better.

We dont ever have forced rpcds, theyre always voluntary

 

[Cowboy Mac]

I agree the company loves loopholes. Seems like it would benefit the company on Saturday to do away with 22.4 Schedule, wise. Just RPCDs scheduled by seniority, ask from the top force from the bottom scheduling. No more of this nonsense forcing six days.

Have like a base number of RPCD permanently scheduled Tues-Saturday. Then as needed offer/force on Saturdays to cover call ins.

Then if a M-friend job opens up offer it to the T-S guys by seniority.

They need to figure out route bidding too. I think they could possibly have M-friend routes and T-Sat bid routes. Not sure exactly how it would look but I think we need more opportunities for routes to be bid and no more 30 consecutive days BS. 30 consecutive days is impossible with saturday ground.

 

[Thebrownblob]

Have like a base number of RPCD permanently scheduled Tues-Saturday. Then as needed offer/force on Saturdays to cover call ins.

Then if a M-friend job opens up offer it to the T-S guys by seniority.

They need to figure out route bidding too. I think they could possibly have M-friend routes and T-Sat bid routes. Not sure exactly how it would look but I think we need more opportunities for routes to be bid and no more 30 consecutive days BS. 30 consecutive days is impossible with saturday ground.

I think it’s a win-win for everyone, more stability and more accountability. Most generally the only people working six days would be very minimal and purely voluntary.

 

[ManInBrown]

Total BS. You have no responsibility to show up to work 15 or 20 minutes early off the clock to bump onto a route. When I was in package they tried that here. Union put a stop to it real fast. I used to walk in the door at 8:48 for 8:50 start. You bump after the pcm if need be.

And if they don’t want to back off the 15 minutes before start time, then all cover drivers should have their start time pushed up 20 minutes. You don’t do anything at this place for free.

 

[JustDeliverIt]

Have like a base number of RPCD permanently scheduled Tues-Saturday. Then as needed offer/force on Saturdays to cover call ins.

Then if a M-friend job opens up offer it to the T-S guys by seniority.

They need to figure out route bidding too. I think they could possibly have M-friend routes and T-Sat bid routes. Not sure exactly how it would look but I think we need more opportunities for routes to be bid and no more 30 consecutive days BS. 30 consecutive days is impossible with saturday ground.

We bid routes every 2 years here. Our first bid with Saturday delivery was before the 22.4 classification and that’s how they did it. You had routes that bid Mon-Fri or Tues-Sat. It wasn’t difficult at all.

As for Saturdays now, any RPCD that comes in gets the area they want and 22.4’s fill in the gaps. Not sure if they’re just happy to have the staffing so will do whatever they have to go get drivers in or this is done on purpose.

 

[Staydryitsraining]

How do you bump an RPCD who’s not even supposed to be there?

Well. Hey rpcds anyone want extra work come in Saturday. Rpcd shows up, super puts them on a gravy route because they are helping out. 22.4 is on a worse route, so the 22.4 bumps the rpcd because Saturday isn't the rpcd scheduled work day there for they have no seniority over a 22.4

 

[Thebrownblob]

Well. Hey rpcds anyone want extra work come in Saturday. Rpcd shows up, super puts them on a gravy route because they are helping out. 22.4 is on a worse route, so the 22.4 bumps the rpcd because Saturday isn't the rpcd scheduled work day there for they have no seniority over a 22.4

Seniority is seniority.

So then seniority is not seniority?

 

[Staydryitsraining]

Okay, so when it's your turn to be laid off and put inside, and they tell you you're going down to $16.33/hr instead of your wage, you gonna argue how you're a FT driver then?

So then seniority is not seniority?

On your scheduled work day.

 

[Thebrownblob]

On your scheduled work day.

Lol where is that written? Do you see what you noobs fail to understand is anything not written leaves an open door for the company to do as they please. Sometimes you might get a favorable local agreement or panel decision, and sometimes not.

Simply stating “Seniority is seniority” just doesn’t work with vague contract language.

For example, in my local when they laid off 22.4 they did not work Saturday, they were laid off and working in the hub M-Fri and they were taking volunteers and forcing regular drivers so apparently Saturday work is not just 22.4 work.

 

[UnionStrong]

Lol where is that written? Do you see what you noobs fail to understand is anything not written leaves an open door for the company to do as they please. Sometimes you might get a favorable local agreement or panel decision, and sometimes not.

Simply stating “Seniority is seniority” just doesn’t work with vague contract language.

For example, in my local when they laid off 22.4 they did not work Saturday, they were laid off and working in the hub M-Fri and they were taking volunteers and forcing regular drivers so apparently Saturday work is not just 22.4 work.

Apparently not…

 

[Staydryitsraining]

Lol where is that written? Do you see what you noobs fail to understand is anything not written leaves an open door for the company to do as they please. Sometimes you might get a favorable local agreement or panel decision, and sometimes not.

Simply stating “Seniority is seniority” just doesn’t work with vague contract language.

For example, in my local when they laid off

22.4 they did not work Saturday, they were laid off and working in the hub M-Fri and they were taking volunteers and forcing regular drivers so apparently Saturday work is not just 22.4 work.

A 22.4 not working on Saturday sounds like a bigger problem than what the contract says. That sounds like you have a fake BA and a fake local president. Nothing apparently matters where ever your at.

 

[Thebrownblob]

A 22.4 not working on Saturday sounds like a bigger problem than what the contract says. That sounds like you have a fake BA and a fake local president. Nothing apparently matters where ever your at.

I’m not the one making up the rules and saying “seniority, is seniority”, unless it pertains to you. When you get out of the diapers and get some facial hair then you can talk to me again.

 

[Thebrownblob]

A 22.4 not working on Saturday sounds like a bigger problem than what the contract says. That sounds like you have a fake BA and a fake local president. Nothing apparently matters where ever you’re at.

How would any person laid off from a job be required to work only one day?

We advised all laid off 22.4 drivers to work the night sort and the Preload shift, that way, if the company tried to force a Qualified driver to work Saturday, the laid off 22.4 would either not have the required DOT reset to work Saturday morning after working the night sort Friday, and if they did take the Friday night off, they could file for the missed shift and receive a 6 day punch Saturday. We also have a handful of 22.4 drivers who actually took a hard layoff and did not work at all. It worked beautifully, and they were only laid off two weeks, and haven’t been since.

That might not be possible everywhere because not everywhere have a night sort and Preload.