teamster president election

[JonFrum]

. . . You can't alibi by pointing to his wages. As a lawyer he could have made much more in the private industry.

Who says he didn't make much more? Remember, Hoffa is 67 years old!!!

He's had a full ("checkered") lawyer career already. Running the Teamsters is what he's doing in his "retirement years."

And the money he makes is huge when you realize it comes from dues-payers making as little as $8.50 for a 17.5 hour workweek, with H&W benefits delayed for a year and pension credit accrual delayed for five years. After paying dues and initiation fees, many low-wage UPSers will be earning minimum wage.

 

[Bloodybrown]

Amazing go figure thierss, a management poster running to the defense of hoffa!

Im not going to debate contract talks under every single thread with you, but understand that what you are referring to is current contract language and ptimers do get another chance after a year.

I am not defending Hoffa, I am actually making the point that you and your leadeship would be the worse thing for the teamsters!!...Your one way, its all about you and your local, not whats good for all.

If it is one year for a part timer thats good. I read where another 705 guy said it was the life of the contract.

 

[705red]

I am not defending Hoffa, I am actually making the point that you and your leadeship would be the worse thing for the teamsters!!...Your one way, its all about you and your local, not whats good for all.

Im not making any predictions here and the election is several years away, but dont you mean it would be bad for ups and other teamster companies? I have come to an understanding that if management is endorsing someone for union leadership you should vote the other way and fast. And if ups is against someone you have to vote for them in your own best interest.

If it is one year for a part timer thats good. I read where another 705 guy said it was the life of the contract.

I didnt see that other post, but when you posted your statement i went right to my current contract and the new proposal. It reads the same and it does read that way, however since that language wasnt changed we would continue to honor the existing agreement that you are done for one year.

 

[hondo]

If it is one year for a part timer thats good. I read where another 705 guy said it was the life of the contract.

I'm that guy, and I only know what's in the contract on that subject (Arts. 22.6 & 45.3). If area practice is different, great, and 705Red would know better than I. I do know when I asked specifically about 22.6, I was referred to 45.3 and I do understand the importance of what it affords us, but if past practice is one year, shouldn't we get clarifying language?

 

[705red]

I'm that guy, and I only know what's in the contract on that subject (Arts. 22.6 & 45.3). If area practice is different, great, and 705Red would know better than I. I do know when I asked specifically about 22.6, I was referred to 45.3 and I do understand the importance of what it affords us, but if past practice is one year, shouldn't we get clarifying language?

Hondo if contract language does not change you would continue working under its present intent. I have a ptimer that has tried 3 times over the last 6 years without making it. This last time she was dqed for the agreement. It works both ways why should someone get 5, 6 chances over a 6 year deal? I understand that we are taking 3 month employees to ftime because no one wants it.

 

[tieguy]

Jr couldnt fill his fathers shoes! His father if alive today would smack the taste out of his mouth for what he has done to this organization.

His father stood for the working man and for working families so everyone could enjoy finer things. Jr enjoys getting along with the companies just to get along.

Sr worked in our trades and had an understanding of the jobs, crafts. Jr is an attorney with a secretary to do his heavy lifting and envelope opening.

Jimmy Hoffa SR built the teamsters to the strongest levels ever whil jr has weakened us to our lowest levels ever.

Interesting. points but I think both Hoffas fit their time well. Senior appealed to a less educated thug that feed off the violent history the teamsters were known for. I wouldn't be surprised if Senior had the mob knock off a couple of workers from time to time that he could then blame on the company.

While we still have a few locals in todays world that are not far removed from their caveman ancestors todays teamster overall is much smarter, certainly more educated then his predecessors. Thus they may require a smarter better educated leader to lead them. Perhaps that is where the TDU side has failed. They keep throwing up candidates endorsed by the thug sides such as Ron Carey who did not even understand basic ethics issues.

 

[Bloodybrown]

I didnt see that other post, but when you posted your statement i went right to my current contract and the new proposal. It reads the same and it does read that way, however since that language wasnt changed we would continue to honor the existing agreement that you are done for one year.

Red, what you continue not to get is that UPS and other companies must remain competitive and make money. You would have UPS go under just so you and your boys can enjoy a few good years, but eventually we will wind up like the auto companies.......YOU REALLY DON'T GET IT, DO YOU????

 

[Catatonic]

Jr couldnt fill his fathers shoes! His father if alive today would smack the taste out of his mouth for what he has done to this organization.

His father stood for the working man and for working families so everyone could enjoy finer things. Jr enjoys getting along with the companies just to get along.

Sr worked in our trades and had an understanding of the jobs, crafts. Jr is an attorney with a secretary to do his heavy lifting and envelope opening.

Jimmy Hoffa SR built the teamsters to the strongest levels ever whil jr has weakened us to our lowest levels ever.

In the his time SR did not have to
1) bargain with only one unionized company in an industry that is primarily non-union
2) consider the long-term consequences of labor costs in an industry of non-union competitors.
3) compete in a global economy

Junior is working in a world where there has to be a very balanced agreement that allows UPS to remain competitive while honoring the retired Teamsters from other companies that have gone out of business.

Both Hoffa and you have to get out there and organize FedEx and the other transportation companies.

Once UPS goes under, there will not be any other Teamster organized companies to pay your pension.

 

[705red]

Interesting. points but I think both Hoffas fit their time well. Senior appealed to a less educated thug that feed off the violent history the teamsters were known for. I wouldn't be surprised if Senior had the mob knock off a couple of workers from time to time that he could then blame on the company.

While we still have a few locals in todays world that are not far removed from their caveman ancestors todays teamster overall is much smarter, certainly more educated then his predecessors. Thus they may require a smarter better educated leader to lead them. Perhaps that is where the TDU side has failed. They keep throwing up candidates endorsed by the thug sides such as Ron Carey who did not even understand basic ethics issues.

So now if you represent the membership you are a thug? I would like to change my screen name to thug then!

 

[Bloodybrown]

So now if you represent the membership you are a thug? I would like to change my screen name to thug then!

Good Idea

 

[Bloodybrown]

In the his time SR did not have to
1) bargain with only one unionized company in an industry that is primarily non-union
2) consider the long-term consequences of labor costs in an industry of non-union competitors.
3) compete in a global economy

Junior is working in a world where there has to be a very balanced agreement that allows UPS to remain competitive while honoring the retired Teamsters from other companies that have gone out of business.

Both Hoffa and you have to get out there and organize FedEx and the other transportation companies.

Once UPS goes under, there will not be any other Teamster organized companies to pay your pension.

Excellent post!!

 

[705red]

Red, what you continue not to get is that UPS and other companies must remain competitive and make money. You would have UPS go under just so you and your boys can enjoy a few good years, but eventually we will wind up like the auto companies.......YOU REALLY DON'T GET IT, DO YOU????

Its you that are missing the point! What your failing to understand is we are not in the car making industry. When you buy a car you dont see the guy that just built it or carpeted it.

When you get a package its me and other upsers that the customer is seeing. Its us that are providing this service and yes we wear the shiel on our chest its much more than that to the customer.

If we wind up like the auto industry it will not be because of the union employees that provide a great quality service. It will be because of the bad management decisions made up from the top even way above your head. We the drivers are doing the best to provide this service even with the micro managing but if it gets worse the customers will take their business elsewere because we are not reliable. Thats not on the union its on the ceo and top executives that have been running this company the wrong way for the last 3 or so years!

 

[705red]

In the his time SR did not have to
1) bargain with only one unionized company in an industry that is primarily non-union

Really so what you are saying is that everyone was union when hoffa came into power? You are talking about fedex and dhl, wheil fedex is non-union i do believe that around half of dhl is union and are teamsters(at least here in chicago)
2) consider the long-term consequences of labor costs in an industry of non-union competitors.

And how is now any different than the great depression? But yet they had people coming to join the teamsters in droves under sr's watch. Now you have memebers decertifying and coming up with other organizations such qas the apwa to gat fair representation.

3) compete in a global economy


Junior is working in a world where there has to be a very balanced agreement that allows UPS to remain competitive while honoring the retired Teamsters from other companies that have gone out of business.

Are you currently employeed under this balanced fair agreement that you speak of? It sounds like you are a retiree which either way i will still respect your point of view.

Both Hoffa and you have to get out there and organize FedEx and the other transportation companies.


Hoffa has some wins in organizing with ups freight being the biggest win. However we could have done alot more and should have grown this membership more than it has. I know of close to 1000 members that we have organized in 705 but other locals claimed juristication to them and then never closed the deal or the members only wanted to join 705 because of the leadership and representation that they would have received.

Once UPS goes under, there will not be any other Teamster organized companies to pay your pension.

Never have i said that i want ups to go under, all i want is the contract they have agreed to honored!

 

[Bloodybrown]

Its you that are missing the point! What your failing to understand is we are not in the car making industry. When you buy a car you dont see the guy that just built it or carpeted it.
The point is thier union drove them into the ground with the elaborate contracts that they won....look at where they are now...can't compete when you give the employees much more than the rest of the industry!!...sound familiar ???....this is just what you want from UPS!!
When you get a package its me and other upsers that the customer is seeing. Its us that are providing this service and yes we wear the shiel on our chest its much more than that to the customer.
Of course it is, and you should be paid well !!......but you want to drive us into the ground.....customers are leaving us for price plain and simple!! If it was not for all the technological investments and inovations we would be in big trouble right now......International businesss is what's keeping us profitable not the domestic side.....but that's way over your head!!

If we wind up like the auto industry it will not be because of the union employees that provide a great quality service. It will be because of the bad management decisions made up from the top even way above your head. We the drivers are doing the best to provide this service even with the micro managing but if it gets worse the customers will take their business elsewere because we are not reliable. Thats not on the union its on the ceo and top executives that have been running this company the wrong way for the last 3 or so years!

Your wrong....if this company goes under its because of the greed of locals like 705 and teamsters like you!!......You think that you are special and UPS is your servant....It don't work that way!!......I have some of the best drivers working for me, and a majority of them get it!!!....They understand that a truck driver that makes 30 bucks an hour is earning a dam good wage and they know that growing the business is a priority and I treat them right and they do a hell of a job for UPS and me!....Thank God most teamsters don't have your mentality!!

 

[rocket man]

HOFFA is ok in my contract

 

[tieguy]

So now if you represent the membership you are a thug? I would like to change my screen name to thug then!

I certainly think its safe to say there are still a few locals susceptible to rabble rousing. Their mindset being one devoted to biting the hand that feeds them at all costs. Your little misguided power play by your inexperienced union leadership again hurt unions everywhere.

I also think that you will see a unionism take place as unions start developing a closer relationship with the companys they serve in order for the unions to survive. Clearly the rabble rousing caveman types are a dying breed. Smart unions that survive will develop partnerships with companys and benifit from profit sharing, 401 K match etc. The concept of a labor partnership is what will draw you more members not the concept of cutting the companys throat.

 

[tieguy]

Its you that are missing the point! What your failing to understand is we are not in the car making industry. When you buy a car you dont see the guy that just built it or carpeted it.

When you get a package its me and other upsers that the customer is seeing. Its us that are providing this service and yes we wear the shiel on our chest its much more than that to the customer.

If we wind up like the auto industry it will not be because of the union employees that provide a great quality service. It will be because of the bad management decisions made up from the top even way above your head. We the drivers are doing the best to provide this service even with the micro managing but if it gets worse the customers will take their business elsewere because we are not reliable. Thats not on the union its on the ceo and top executives that have been running this company the wrong way for the last 3 or so years!

standard caveman response. I didn;t do it , I don't know what you are talking about. that guy must have stolen his own car.

 

[705red]

Your wrong....if this company goes under its because of the greed of locals like 705 and teamsters like you!!......You think that you are special and UPS is your servant....It don't work that way!!......I have some of the best drivers working for me, and a majority of them get it!!!....They understand that a truck driver that makes 30 bucks an hour is earning a dam good wage and they know that growing the business is a priority and I treat them right and they do a hell of a job for UPS and me!....Thank God most teamsters don't have your mentality!!

So you are saying that because i earn $30 an hour i should overlook contract violations? I should allow you to fire and suspend people at will?

The point is thier union drove them into the ground with the elaborate contracts that they won....look at where they are now...can't compete when you give the employees much more than the rest of the industry!!...sound familiar ???....this is just what you want from UPS!!

Isnt toyota uaw? the point is when you stop providing a dependable service you will lose customers. Toyota is actually a little more expensive than buying a gm, ford, dodge but yet toyota out sells these other makers, why?


Of course it is, and you should be paid well !!......but you want to drive us into the ground.....customers are leaving us for price plain and simple!! If it was not for all the technological investments and inovations we would be in big trouble right now......International businesss is what's keeping us profitable not the domestic side.....but that's way over your head!!

Show me were i have said i want to drive ups into the ground!

 

[Bloodybrown]

So you are saying that because i earn $30 an hour i should overlook contract violations? I should allow you to fire and suspend people at will?

Don't twist words...I never said that. You are anti UPS management which runs the company.....teamsters don't run UPS although you may think so!
You think you should make 50 bucks an hour and UPS should not make a profit.....that's your communistic views....add more full time jobs even though UPS losses money!!....that is your thought process!!

The point is thier union drove them into the ground with the elaborate contracts that they won....look at where they are now...can't compete when you give the employees much more than the rest of the industry!!...sound familiar ???....this is just what you want from UPS!!

Isnt toyota uaw? the point is when you stop providing a dependable service you will lose customers. Toyota is actually a little more expensive than buying a gm, ford, dodge but yet toyota out sells these other makers, why?


They build a better car, more dependable. They are also owned by a Japanese company. They do what customers demand and are streamlined. You on the other hand would like us to operate like FEDEX. Hire more fulltime drivers to pick up ground out of our drop boxes, don't use air drivers is just one example, another is don't use air drivers to deliver air in the morning!! ....add more drivers....don't be flexible....add more drivers ....more useless 22.3 jobs.....drive UPS into the ground!!
Of course it is, and you should be paid well !!......but you want to drive us into the ground.....customers are leaving us for price plain and simple!! If it was not for all the technological investments and inovations we would be in big trouble right now......International businesss is what's keeping us profitable not the domestic side.....but that's way over your head!!

Show me were i have said i want to drive ups into the ground!

You actions and that of your local prove my point......pound the war drums of a strike!!....Drive our customers away!!....You really don't care about UPS....just the glory of your local !!....You are and your local could care less about your fellow teamsters or UPS!!.Time for me to go to work!!

 

[Mike Hawk]

Shame on them for using a strike vote to make the company stop the BS and negotiate, they should have just agreed to work for free. UPS only made 873 million in profit in the second quarter, and only had revenue of 13 billion, we should all bite the bullet for UPS, because they would do the same right? Not really. Maybe if UPS didn't violate the contract so much there wouldn't be this us vs. them attitude that is prevalent on both sides.