tentative contract now online

[Braveheart]

There is no way that you should vote for this agreement. Your wage increases each year are less than stated. They would actually be .52, .56, .56, .63, and .71. Since they are splitting your raises in two, take they average and that is what your yearly raises will actually be. Why is the union giving in to UPS. Over the last 2 years UPS made over $8 BILLION in profit. Compare our wage increases to the deal that the UAW got its members. We will earn approximately $8500 over the 5 year deal, yet the GM workers will get around $13000. And GM lost almost $13 BILLION over the last 2 years. The other problem that I see is that if pension and health care costs go up, which we know that they will, the way I read the contract proposal is that the company can take up to .35 cents an hour of your pay and move it to the pension or health care costs. Why should we pay that increase when UPS continues to make record profits. Before you vote on this contract read it carefully and educate yourself. Don't take the union or managements word that it is a good contract. Remember, a union trustee voted with UPS to put New York & New Jersey under a joint UPS/Teamster pension plan and reduced their benfits by 30% and then put a cap on them. So it would be suprising that our union negotiators switched sides and sold us out to the Dark Side.

Great post man!!!! That was what I was saying about the last part of the contract allowing them to take part of our raise!

Didn't the union tell us not to let UPS get control of our pension back in1997, and then Hoffa gets voted in and he is giving it to them!?!?

Also didn't UPS boast back in 1997 of how their pension would be better and in fact like a $1,000 or more per month better?!?!

I say trust only what you think is better and this contract is not it.

 

[Braveheart]

Remember when the Union said they couldn't use the GPS as a tool against the drivers when it first came out?

Now the new wording says you can't have action taken against you for the first offense when they used the GPS or other newer systems.

I see a whole lot of drivers finding this out the hard way.

Lets face it....every one here cried about the 3 year progression.....but gee look. It comes with higher wages through the progression. Doesn't look that bad now.

Yeah but the extra 6 months just cost you like $10,000!!!!! I did the math!

Plus it is the second straight contract under Hoffa and now it will be 36 months when it used to be 24 months!!

Plus I feel as though any part timer who has worked inside for a couple years or more is already going through a progression and waiting period starting at $8.50 no less!!

 

[Braveheart]

Remember when the Union said they couldn't use the GPS as a tool against the drivers when it first came out?

Now the new wording says you can't have action taken against you for the first offense when they used the GPS or other newer systems.

I see a whole lot of drivers finding this out the hard way.

Lets face it....every one here cried about the 3 year progression.....but gee look. It comes with higher wages through the progression. Doesn't look that bad now.

Great point about the GPS thing!!! So now we will be fired for trying to find a place to eat after all!!! What ever happened to stay within a mile of your area and everybody is cool. Now it is like you went even half a mile to eat and you used lunch time for the couple minutes of driving so as not to exceed 1 hour but your still fired???

We are opening pandora's box if we vote this contract in!!!!!

 

[samiam]

My take on just skimming it...same old crap as before. Nothing new to make me happier I work for UPS. I will have to wait until I read it all word for word, and my local contact also.

 

[Braveheart]

does this mean we still have to work till 62 with a 6% penatly,



( (2) The benefit formula for current or future full-time employees who are participants in the
UPS/IBT Plan will be as set forth below for each year of future service (hours worked in Covered
Employment on or after the effective date) up to a maximum of thirty (35) years of Credited
Service (such limitation is only applicable to service pensions). This benefit is unreduced if
payable at Normal Retirement Age (age 65) and 5 years of vesting service or at age 62 with 20
years of Credited Service. Benefit payments may begin as early as Early Retirement Age (age 50
with five years of vesting service) and are reduced 6% per year for each year and partial year
prior to Normal Retirement Age. There shall be no reduction or change in the level of benefits
described herein unless negotiated and agreed to by the Union. )



i have 20 plus years, you are still giving me 3000. amonth with no cola?
thats the same as 97, this is 2007.where is the improvement? and whats to say the company wants to make cuts on the pension some wheres down the road and the new ups/ibt panel agrees with it ? just like they did to 804?

UPS wanted the pension so bad they paid 6 billion to get out of it. So what, I do not care. This is still 10 year old pension levels.

Why are we buying a 10 year old car and with no real warranty either I add!

 

[Braveheart]

The last sentence appears to say that they can't do it, without us allowing them to do so with a vote. That would be a tough sell.

You are not reading it correctly. They can only take up to .35 cents, WITHOUT OUR APPROVAL!!!!!!!!! then if they want any more money they have to come ask us!!!!!!

If we vote yes then you may as well kiss .35 cents of every raise goodbye!!!!

 

[Braveheart]

I think this says they can do take $0.35 cents out of each 6 month raise and put it into the pension without mutual agreement and without a vote. Only when they try to move more than $0.35 cents do they have to ask us!!! This alone is worth a no vote!

I agree completely!!!!!!

 

[Braveheart]

There is absolutly no reason anyone should vote yes on this deal !!!!

9.5 Language is a Deal breaker for me....

No Change at all. Name one person that has every gotten the double pay.? So now it is triple, might as well make it 100X. You dont just automatically get that if you file. You have to file over 20 plus times I have found out to get double pay. I have filed 18 times and am no closer to double pay than I was when I started the process. Each time they put a sup or manager on car with me and we work over 9.5. Some say "oh that is a screwed up route" and some say "We real need to fix that area". We will then review the ride and agree to an average stop count and a average stops per hour that I must maintain. I have not once missed the stops per hour but the stop count is never at or below what was agreed on. They blame it on PAS. I am still working over 9.5 at least 2-4 days a week and can only file when I have 3 or more in a week. I think that I should be allowed to bring the car back at 9.5 if the dispatcher screwed up and he can go out for the 2-3 extra hours and deliver the rest. I guarantee you it would only take one time of having to call him at home at 6:45 and tell him to put his browns on because he needed to come back and clean his mess up.

Tell your local to re think the 9.5 issue. Either a list each month for those that want over 9.5 or those that dont. If there are no takers then it is forced in seniority order from the bottom up. That is the only way they get me to vote yes on this deal.

I agree!!!! 5 months and 7 months a joke!!!!! Love the seniority idea too!!!!!

 

[BigBrownSanta]

Is this contract to take effect "upon ratification" or on August 1, 2008?

 

[RockyRogue]

Is this contract to take effect "upon ratification" or on August 1, 2008?

I believe if you look at the top of the first page of the contract online, it says December ___, 2007--July 31, 2008. -Rocky

 

[KTB]

Well why are we not fighting for new combo jobs anyway? And there are no new full time jobs promised either! There is no new protection for the loss of non 22.3 jobs! We have had like 6-8 full timers quit in our bldg yet everyone replaced by cover driver! Union says as long as they have 10% over average daily routes they do not have to replace them. That sucks!

Right on. The more part time to full time we get the better. You'll get no arguments out of me on that. I was talking about the speculation that this contract allowed UPS to eliminate existing 22.3 jobs. That's not the case. I think it's a piece of garbage, but it's important to attack this proposal on what's actually in it. There's enough bad to go after in the proposed contract (like the lack of new 22.3 jobs) that it's important not to swing at phantoms that aren't there.

 

[area43]

After reading alot of the contract. This is what comes to mind. Buy Out!! UPS is pissed about the 6.1 billion and they have every right to be. The MEP folks. Its a failed way to run pensions and health care. We the workers are having to pay the piper so to speak for the Teamsters "dysfunctional" economic practices. If UPS averages 4.1 billion in profit a year than it will take roughly 1 1/2 years to make up that 6.1 billion. Thats about a third of the 5 year contract. Wow!!! Folks, what did you really expect. Lets give UPS some credit. They took one for the team in giving up 6.1 billion to save or hopefully save 35,000 to 40,000 active UPS Teamsters brothers and sisters. Hell will have to be paid. The Teamsters have realized this. They went to the negioations as a lame duck. IMO, Key word "promises". Curious on what really happened behind closed doors. Remember that article Chan posted a while back. Mr Black(UPS spokesman) said, "promises were made". What did he actually mean by that? Bogus Teamsters Promises made to us over the years in reference to our pensions. Did UPS give Teamsters an ultimatum. Give us a quick contract and we will not fight(legally) the fact that you made bogus promises to your members, thus having UPS be possiblily exempt on having to pay the 6.1 billion. Bad press. Could the Teamsters be exposed? Could they really with stand the negative press? What about organizing UPS freight? Would it hinder their efforts? Even if UPS lost the fight to put its hard earned billions in a bankrupt fund, The damage would be done. Bogus promises,folks. How would they be able to acquire new members? Just maybe the Teamster were finally cornered. Hey, Jonfrum in reference to your latter post on Teamsters being "Dysfunctional" and that no one could change them. Well, maybe that is what happened? UPS took the Teamsters to the Wood shed. Who knows? LOL

UPS is not a bottomless pit of cash. One poster made the comment about UPS making 4.1 billion in a negative way. Yea, and so what. I hope and pray UPS keeps making a profit because that is what it will need to do in order to keep buying out all these ed UPS Mep plans. Sorry Mods I cussed. My fund is presently at 75%(joint council 83 of Va.). With the new changes on funding going into affect Jan 1,2008. Will the 25yrs and $2,500 at any age be changed in my MEP plan. Perphaps. Remember the governments goal in concerning the Meps. Every plan to my knowledge has to be above 80%. The Teamsters have to submit a plan by April. I have a funny feeling that I and many other Joint 83's might be getting screwed come April.
Folks, I would have never stayed with UPS if I would have know this when I first started driving for UPS. I will be quiting when I hit my 25(I have 5 years left) years, retirement or not. Like I said before, I fulfilled my part of the bargain. I know theres never a guarantee with anything. You know what I mean. Don't get me wrong UPS isn't all that bad. Its been good. Old School Work and Ive meet alot of people, but it s time to move on to something different. Economic Security, well. What can I say? You fight hard for something and you lose it. I am a hard worker. I'll just work till I die. Aint nothin but a thing. LOL

Folks, you better start fortify those little concrete bunkers in your head. UPS is going to be on the production War Path. Money and stocks are the key here folks. God forbid this first contract gets voted down. Maybe I'll go in the bomb shelter of being a feeder driver. LOL Just messin with all you feeder guys and gals. Hey in all seriousness. UPS took one for the team(6.1 billion). So lets vote "Yes" and show our gratitude. ( :

Again, its the MEP. Thats what's killing us. Pension and health. Socialized, communistic plan. It just doesn't work. Active UPS EX CSers have a possible brighter future coming out of it. UPS can't afford to be the cash cow and subsidize all these other companies employees. Teamsters, when neg. our contract are in fact neg. the non ups employees contract also. Read Hoffas quotes. He's a lawyer. His word selections are interesting. He always refers to the "members of the plan". "UPS contract will benefit the members of the Plan". Remember, the 40 cent to every dollar. Wow, I guess If UPS wanted to make sure we recieved a full dollar in these MEPS they would have to give $2.50. Give UPS a break. Health is the same thing. Monies are pulled from the contributing companies and put in a bucket. Of course we UPSers get screwed again. UPS contributes the most and we get short changed. AGAIN, by the Teamsters in having to have our raises go back to the Health fund and support non UPSers. Remember were just one big not so happy disgruntled family. Folks, its not UPS's FAULT. Whats fair is fair. Put the blame where the blame should be placed. The Teamsters.... I have alot more to say, to be cont.

 

[local804]

Again, its the MEP. Thats what's killing us. Pension and health. Socialized, communistic plan. It just doesn't work. Active UPS EX CSers have a possible brighter future coming out of it. UPS can't afford to be the cash cow and subsidize all these other companies employees. Teamsters, when neg. our contract are in fact neg. the non ups employees contract also. Read Hoffas quotes. He's a lawyer. His word selections are interesting. He always refers to the "members of the plan". "UPS contract will benefit the members of the Plan". Remember, the 40 cent to every dollar. Wow, I guess If UPS wanted to make sure we recieved a full dollar in these MEPS they would have to give $2.50. Give UPS a break. Health is the same thing. Monies are pulled from the contributing companies and put in a bucket. Of course we UPSers get screwed again. UPS contributes the most and we get short changed. AGAIN, by the Teamsters in having to have our raises go back to the Health fund and support non UPSers. Remember were just one big not so happy disgruntled family. Folks, its not UPS's FAULT. Whats fair is fair. Put the blame where the blame should be placed. The Teamsters.... I have alot more to say, to be cont.

Area 43,
Once again I hear the crying wolf about how bad the Mep`s are and under a Sep things would be so peachy. Local 804 (one of the largest locals) is a Sep with more problems now than the Central States ever had. There is NO "support to non UPSer" ( possibly 1% or less non upsers if that) and there are still problems, go figure........

 

[GuyinBrown]

804, I didn't see anything in the new contract that was asking you guys to take the .10 pay cut for you pension. Did that turn out to be bad information? Or is it something that is only in your local rider?

 

[705red]

804, I didn't see anything in the new contract that was asking you guys to take the .10 pay cut for you pension. Did that turn out to be bad information? Or is it something that is only in your local rider?

Guy here is a link on this info.
http://www.makeupsdeliver.org/news.php?extend.84

 

[GuyinBrown]

Yeah that was the information I meant, but I was curious if there was anything "official" yet since I didn't see anything in the national master that was posted. Seemed like it if was true it would be in there, but I wondered if maybe it was something that would be in a local rider instead.

 

[705red]

Yeah that was the information I meant, but I was curious if there was anything "official" yet since I didn't see anything in the national master that was posted. Seemed like it if was true it would be in there, but I wondered if maybe it was something that would be in a local rider instead.

Last time i heard there are about 22 different riders/supplements across the nation. It looks like this contract we are seeing is the one that mainly effects cs members. I have seen that the contract is now on teamsters.org i wonder if they will have all the riders online or if it will be an area by area basis.

 

[area43]

Area 43,
Once again I hear the crying wolf about how bad the Mep`s are and under a Sep things would be so peachy. Local 804 (one of the largest locals) is a Sep with more problems now than the Central States ever had. There is NO "support to non UPSer" ( possibly 1% or less non upsers if that) and there are still problems, go figure........

All pensions contributions should go into the TEAMSTERS UPS 401k. The infastructure is already in place. Let the Active UPS exCSer's put their pension monies in that. The common practice for pensions by companies now is the 401k. I agree MEPS and SEPS are failing, but I also believe that a Sep would be the lesser of two evils. In the MEP you have so so many companies that have died, but their employees keep drawing on the fund. Where is the logic in that? UPS, is a company that has been in the black for a 100 years. Is it a good choice for a SEP? The Teamsters sure think it is. Actions speak louder than words. We sure know what the MEP had to offer.

Just a few questions 804 with all due respect. What would you tell those 35,000 to 40,000 UPSers that just came out of that soon to be bankrupt fund CS to do? Have you talked to them? I have. Our state borders next to NC. Ive talked to some of these feeder drivers. Their happy the buy out took place. What have they got to lose? Any pension plan is a risk. 804. would you want these UPSers to stay in the CS plan and stick it out? What about the new funding laws? Ouch! Again, 804 you show us the problems with the MEP and SEP but you give us no solutions. Why don't the Teamsters and UPS realize its the 401k? Cut out the middle man. ( :

Ok back to the contract. 6.1 billion folks. Let me give you some of the reasons why I am voting "yes". These are some of the benefits that I recieve working for UPS. I have 19.5 ft driving and 2.7 pt. Oct 30 I'll have 22 yrs total. I would like to quote Red in one of his recent post. " I choose to look at the glass as half full, than half empty. Its good to bring out the negatives, but you have to bring out the positives too". Red, you are right on. Also, you must bring forth ideas and solutions to the problems. Not just complain about them. Ok, here are the bennies of UPS.

1) $28.15 an hour. Time and half for anything over 8 hrs. Most jobs its anything over 40 hrs. I bring this out because when they have extra drivers I always volunteer to go home. Yipppeee. I request a no-pay day off,but with the ot over 8 hrs I still get my time and a half. More Money. ( :

2)UPS contributes $273.60 a week in my behalf to the Teamsters for my Pension.
UPS contributes $222.10 a week in my behalf to the Teamsters for my Health.
Yes, I have posted this before,but you know how the memory can be selective at times. LOL

3)I have 5 weeks vacation, 1 week sick and 1 week of ph's. I bid the sick week as a vacation. So in a sense that gives me 6 weeks vacation. One of those vac weeks I bid a day at a time. Execellent. In 3 years I'll get another week vacation. Total 8 weeks paid off. 2 months. Just about the whole summer. Oh one other thing. Lets not forget the paid holidays. Yippeeee!!! OK most UPSers have 2 days off for Thanksgiving. 1 day off for Christmas. 2 days off for New Years eve and New Years day depending on where they fall during the week. 1 day off for Memorial day. 1 day off for July 4. 1 day off for Labor day. Wow, thats an additional 1 week and 2 days off. Lets total them all up. 9 weeks and 2 days after 25 years. Thats with Joint council 83 of Va. Real quick, pt ers what other job gives you 2 weeks vac and 1 week sic and 1 week ph's after one year. Total 4 weeks paid. A whole month. Incredible. Thats what the pters get in our center.

4)Possibe scholarships from the Teamster and UPS. My son is 16. Sunday, Oct 14 we are planning a trip to Virginia Tech for their open house. Go Hokies!!! Beamer Ball. Anyhow, its pretty "tuff", oopps "tough" to get accepted. A waiting list.

5) Last but not least. UPS gives us "The Bird" for Thanksgiving. If there's anything I forgot please feel free to add.

 

[705red]

All pensions contributions should go into the TEAMSTERS UPS 401k. The infastructure is already in place. Let the Active UPS exCSer's put their pension monies in that. The common practice for pensions by companies now is the 401k. I agree MEPS and SEPS are failing, but I also believe that a Sep would be the lesser of two evils. In the MEP you have so so many companies that have died, but their employees keep drawing on the fund. Where is the logic in that? UPS, is a company that has been in the black for a 100 years. Is it a good choice for a SEP? The Teamsters sure think it is. Actions speak louder than words. We sure know what the MEP had to offer.

Just a few questions 804 with all due respect. What would you tell those 35,000 to 40,000 UPSers that just came out of that soon to be bankrupt fund CS to do? Have you talked to them? I have. Our state borders next to NC. Ive talked to some of these feeder drivers. Their happy the buy out took place. What have they got to lose? Any pension plan is a risk. 804. would you want these UPSers to stay in the CS plan and stick it out? What about the new funding laws? Ouch! Again, 804 you show us the problems with the MEP and SEP but you give us no solutions. Why don't the Teamsters and UPS realize its the 401k? Cut out the middle man. ( :

Ok back to the contract. 6.1 billion folks. Let me give you some of the reasons why I am voting "yes". These are some of the benefits that I recieve working for UPS. I have 19.5 ft driving and 2.7 pt. Oct 30 I'll have 22 yrs total. I would like to quote Red in one of his recent post. " I choose to look at the glass as half full, than half empty. Its good to bring out the negatives, but you have to bring out the positives too". Red, you are right on. Also, you must bring forth ideas and solutions to the problems. Not just complain about them. Ok, here are the bennies of UPS.

1) $28.15 an hour. Time and half for anything over 8 hrs. Most jobs its anything over 40 hrs. I bring this out because when they have extra drivers I always volunteer to go home. Yipppeee. I request a no-pay day off,but with the ot over 8 hrs I still get my time and a half. More Money. ( :

2)UPS contributes $273.60 a week in my behalf to the Teamsters for my Pension.
UPS contributes $222.10 a week in my behalf to the Teamsters for my Health.
Yes, I have posted this before,but you know how the memory can be selective at times. LOL

3)I have 5 weeks vacation, 1 week sick and 1 week of ph's. I bid the sick week as a vacation. So in a sense that gives me 6 weeks vacation. One of those vac weeks I bid a day at a time. Execellent. In 3 years I'll get another week vacation. Total 8 weeks paid off. 2 months. Just about the whole summer. Oh one other thing. Lets not forget the paid holidays. Yippeeee!!! OK most UPSers have 2 days off for Thanksgiving. 1 day off for Christmas. 2 days off for New Years eve and New Years day depending on where they fall during the week. 1 day off for Memorial day. 1 day off for July 4. 1 day off for Labor day. Wow, thats an additional 1 week and 2 days off. Lets total them all up. 9 weeks and 2 days after 25 years. Thats with Joint council 83 of Va. Real quick, pt ers what other job gives you 2 weeks vac and 1 week sic and 1 week ph's after one year. Total 4 weeks paid. A whole month. Incredible. Thats what the pters get in our center.

4)Possibe scholarships from the Teamster and UPS. My son is 16. Sunday, Oct 14 we are planning a trip to Virginia Tech for their open house. Go Hokies!!! Beamer Ball. Anyhow, its pretty "tuff", oopps "tough" to get accepted. A waiting list.

5) Last but not least. UPS gives us "The Bird" for Thanksgiving. If there's anything I forgot please feel free to add.

Brother area everything you brought up are great points. I hope you realize all of these points you talk about were negioated over the years and are not new to this contract. Just because we are well off because of past contracts does not mean that we should tuck our tails and take a bad contract that will hurt us for decades to come!
We should start a thread on whats positivee and whats negative and lets compare to help everyone look at what their giving up and what their getting in return.

 

[local804]

Guys in brown,
Yes it is official, didnt see it in writing but heard it from the BA firsthand.
Area,
We are on two different pages I see. I am telling you that your only UPS pension plan isnt as pretty as the picture you paint and you are telling me about the 35,000 teamsters that are getting screwed. I have not talked to any of them but do talk to alot of my very close teamsters in my local which I would fight tooth and nail for. We all work too damn hard at this job and sacrifice our first born to survive while the company profits billions. The intimidation and harrassment at this job is like no other and working conditions in the brown oven are pathetic as can be. I do not agree that the 35,000 members in the CS`s boat is afloat and the 3,500 members boat is sinking. Either way, I will still retire at 25 years of service and go to plan B when I retire. For as long as I could remember, we all made the same money at UPS, till now.....