you guys promote democracy so you must practice it too n'est pas?
the founders didnt like democracy and they were pre capitalist too so they had no idea anyways
The 2024 Presidential Race Thread
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the founders didnt like democracy and they were pre capitalist too so they had no idea anyways
Didn't like democracy?
You said "the founders." Not so and you know it.
madison was the principle designer
You said "the founders." Not so and you know it.
"I wouldn’t say they are destroying democracy; I would say they have destroyed democracy. You have held up throughout this conversation the founding fathers. And I want to go back to Thomas Paine, who was the real radical, who called for–he didn’t use the word socialism, but a type of socialism, who was an abolitionist, who was a proponent of direct democracy, which the founding fathers were not, who opposed the genocidal campaigns against Native Americans, which all of the founding fathers embraced with relish, who wanted rights for women. And I think Zinn points out that all of these freedoms that you talk about were reserved for a very small, select group of largely slave-holding white males, our aristocratic class, who replaced the aristocratic class of Britain, and that it was–Washington, by the time he was president, was the wealthiest person in the United States, largely by seizing Indian lands with land speculators and selling it for profit–of course, he himself was a large slaveholder–And that through the constitutional conventions that were held after independence, you really saw a rolling back of that populism and radicalism that Paine, who himself became a pariah, spoke so eloquently about, and of course Common Sense and his journalism were used to fuel–most of the people fighting the revolution were yeoman farmers.
So they created mechanisms by which we would never have a voice–the Senate, the Electoral College. That’s how you had Al Gore win 500,000 more votes than Bush and Bush still wins or Nader did not lose the election. Everything was built into the system to create a kind of protection of rights for a very select few. And we saw throughout American history–and Zinn does this in his book–the struggle by labor, by women, by African-Americans, the Communist Party."
VIDEO: Chris Hedges to Robert Scheer: Why Do You Respect America's Founding Fathers? (Part 5/7) - Truthdig
In the fifth installment of Truthdig columnist Chris Hedges’ interview with Truthdig Editor-in-Chief Robert Scheer about Scheer’s new book, Hedges challenges him on his reverence for the wealthy, male elites who created the United States.
www.truthdig.com
Can I ask you something? Did the Founding Fathers create a system that was different from other systems in that day and age? If so was it better or worse? Can you point to any Western nation in that era that was far superior for the common man? It's really easy for Hedges to Monday morning quarterback and pick apart everything but ultimately are we better off for the system they founded? It is, and always has been, a work in progress. How many black Americans are saying screw this, I'm going back to Africa? How many Native Americans are doing without modern appliances, preferring to live in the shelters their ancestors lived in? Go hunting with bow and arrow rather than shop at a modern supermarket?"I wouldn’t say they are destroying democracy; I would say they have destroyed democracy. You have held up throughout this conversation the founding fathers. And I want to go back to Thomas Paine, who was the real radical, who called for–he didn’t use the word socialism, but a type of socialism, who was an abolitionist, who was a proponent of direct democracy, which the founding fathers were not, who opposed the genocidal campaigns against Native Americans, which all of the founding fathers embraced with relish, who wanted rights for women. And I think Zinn points out that all of these freedoms that you talk about were reserved for a very small, select group of largely slave-holding white males, our aristocratic class, who replaced the aristocratic class of Britain, and that it was–Washington, by the time he was president, was the wealthiest person in the United States, largely by seizing Indian lands with land speculators and selling it for profit–of course, he himself was a large slaveholder–And that through the constitutional conventions that were held after independence, you really saw a rolling back of that populism and radicalism that Paine, who himself became a pariah, spoke so eloquently about, and of course Common Sense and his journalism were used to fuel–most of the people fighting the revolution were yeoman farmers.
So they created mechanisms by which we would never have a voice–the Senate, the Electoral College. That’s how you had Al Gore win 500,000 more votes than Bush and Bush still wins or Nader did not lose the election. Everything was built into the system to create a kind of protection of rights for a very select few. And we saw throughout American history–and Zinn does this in his book–the struggle by labor, by women, by African-Americans, the Communist Party."
VIDEO: Chris Hedges to Robert Scheer: Why Do You Respect America's Founding Fathers? (Part 5/7) - Truthdig
In the fifth installment of Truthdig columnist Chris Hedges’ interview with Truthdig Editor-in-Chief Robert Scheer about Scheer’s new book, Hedges challenges him on his reverence for the wealthy, male elites who created the United States.
Your constant refrain is it's evil, it's evil, let's replace it. Yet you have said many times it's the richest country on Earth. How did such an evil place get so wealthy? Our system works because of the constant refinement of the marketplace. It isn't perfect. Sometimes it feels like you're getting chewed up and spit out. But the saying that it's the worst economic system except for every other economic system is true. It's what you are willing to put into it. Some want all the perks without making the effort. Is that you? There are no guarantees and yes companies can be, and are, exploitive. But if you're going to make a living it's the place to be. All those millions who've crossed our borders in the last three years weren't just crossing us to get to Canada. They're here, most of them, to get the chance to make a better life than they could back home. Bitch and moan all you want, the U.S. is still the place to have a dream and fulfill it. So lead, follow, or get the
out of the way.more than 90% of the natives were ethnically cleansed. africa is under western control is it not? why would they want to go back to a country which is relatively worse than america.Can I ask you something? Did the Founding Fathers create a system that was different from other systems in that day and age? If so was it better or worse? Can you point to any Western nation in that era that was far superior for the common man? It's really easy for Hedges to Monday morning quarterback and pick apart everything but ultimately are we better off for the system they founded? It is, and always has been, a work in progress. How many black Americans are saying screw this, I'm going back to Africa? How many Native Americans are doing without modern appliances, preferring to live in the shelters their ancestors lived in? Go hunting with bow and arrow rather than shop at a modern supermarket?
Your constant refrain is it's evil, it's evil, let's replace it. Yet you have said many times it's the richest country on Earth. How did such an evil place get so wealthy? Our system works because of the constant refinement of the marketplace. It isn't perfect. Sometimes it feels like you're getting chewed up and spit out. But the saying that it's the worst economic system except for every other economic system is true. It's what you are willing to put into it. Some want all the perks without making the effort. Is that you? There are no guarantees and yes companies can be, and are, exploitive. But if you're going to make a living it's the place to be. All those millions who've crossed our borders in the last three years weren't just crossing us to get to Canada. They're here, most of them, to get the chance to make a better life than they could back home. Bitch and moan all you want, the U.S. is still the place to have a dream and fulfill it. So lead, follow, or get the
well i believe the constitution was a progressive document for its time. but hte founding fathers were not a bunch of good guys.
you got so wealthy from your resources, and protectionism and i forget what else. US is not the place to have a dream and fufill it -> you life expectancy is 76 years and falling, your union rate is 10%, your govt is completely corrupt and hteres only 2 parties, you have the highest student debt in the world, you have no right to vacation under the law, you have bad public transit leading towards increased drinking and driving, you spend over a trillion on war every year.
the ppl that crossed you borders probably couldnt afford to cross into an australian or european border and secondly dont know the difference between the western countries just like you dont.
the economy doesnt work which is why we have climate catastrophe. and even if it werent for climate catastrophe, the economy still doesnt work bc workers dont have enough power.
More than 90% of the Native Americans died from accidentally introduced disease. Stop drinking the Koolade. You live in a fantasy world.
He's flat out lying. First, most estimates I've seen for what is now the U.S. were about 8 million people here when Columbus landed. About 20-30 million more in the rest of the Americas. We didn't kill most of them. Most died from accidentally introduced diseases that they had no immunity to. There was absolutely war with most of the rest. But other than some massacres, on both sides, there wasn't systematic genocide. If we wanted genocide we would've just killed them all.
PT Car Washer
Well-Known Member
Several states paid bounties on native American scalps.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Good, Good
dude of course there was genocide how lost are you? there was genocide in america, in canada too, in australia.
Name the specific tribe that was wiped out by the white man other than by disease? He said that all those natives were killed by the white man outside of about 200,000. That's a lie.
And some tribes took a hell of a lot more white scalps.
newolddude
Well-Known Member
UnionStrong
Sorry, but I don’t care anymore.
So glad I didn’t read this gibberish."I wouldn’t say they are destroying democracy; I would say they have destroyed democracy. You have held up throughout this conversation the founding fathers. And I want to go back to Thomas Paine, who was the real radical, who called for–he didn’t use the word socialism, but a type of socialism, who was an abolitionist, who was a proponent of direct democracy, which the founding fathers were not, who opposed the genocidal campaigns against Native Americans, which all of the founding fathers embraced with relish, who wanted rights for women. And I think Zinn points out that all of these freedoms that you talk about were reserved for a very small, select group of largely slave-holding white males, our aristocratic class, who replaced the aristocratic class of Britain, and that it was–Washington, by the time he was president, was the wealthiest person in the United States, largely by seizing Indian lands with land speculators and selling it for profit–of course, he himself was a large slaveholder–And that through the constitutional conventions that were held after independence, you really saw a rolling back of that populism and radicalism that Paine, who himself became a pariah, spoke so eloquently about, and of course Common Sense and his journalism were used to fuel–most of the people fighting the revolution were yeoman farmers.
So they created mechanisms by which we would never have a voice–the Senate, the Electoral College. That’s how you had Al Gore win 500,000 more votes than Bush and Bush still wins or Nader did not lose the election. Everything was built into the system to create a kind of protection of rights for a very select few. And we saw throughout American history–and Zinn does this in his book–the struggle by labor, by women, by African-Americans, the Communist Party."
VIDEO: Chris Hedges to Robert Scheer: Why Do You Respect America's Founding Fathers? (Part 5/7) - Truthdig
In the fifth installment of Truthdig columnist Chris Hedges’ interview with Truthdig Editor-in-Chief Robert Scheer about Scheer’s new book, Hedges challenges him on his reverence for the wealthy, male elites who created the United States.
UnionStrong
Sorry, but I don’t care anymore.
Cherry pick all you want, Biden is an entire Cherry tree orchard compared to Trump. Too bad you’re too impaired to see it. Sad and pathetic
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