The harrassment continues....questions

[tieguy]

He is documenting everything that happens and is said. He thinks it's just him, I told him it happens to the best drivers and let him read your reply's. It's really sad they do this to people. I know some of you guys think i'm a budinsky, but i'm just an old school italian girl. my grandfather actually worked, in deep, for the original Teamster goons in the garment district back in the day. I don't like to put up with much crap or like when people mess with my husband for no good reason. if he was wrong, then fine, take your punishment, but in this case enough is enough. I'm just trying to collect all the advise I can and help him through it crossing his t's and dotting his i's. I can't thank you guys and gals enough.

Its simple. He is in the bosses dog house. he is there because he had a tier three intersection accident that was deemed avoidable. His best recourse at this point is to do what his center manager tells him to do. Its not to plot on ways to get revenge. He drove into his bosses doghouse he needs to drive himself out by doing the job. All this plotting on how to get one up on the boss is just going to end up continuing his misery. Its not what you want to hear but god help me its the truth.

 

[Leftinbuilding]

Personally I think you should go in and talk to the center manager. You apparently have the cahones in your family. Sit him down and ask him why he has it in for your husband. Ask if you can review your husband work record with you so you better understand why the guy does not like your husband. It would do you more good then some of the half baked advice you're getting here. In either case this board is pretty much a waste of time for your husband. If he does what the boss says then he is good. If not then more trouble will follow. Unless the center manager is stupid enough to cross the line and give you something you can use against him.

I think if they follow some of the advice being given they are in for a career of butting heads with mgmnt. I've seen the type, and you have too, that are not happy unless they are unhappy. Constantly keeping things stirred up. Me? I like a quiet, peaceable life. Good luck to you "wife", I have a feeling you are gonna need it. I'll repeat what I said earlier, and you can take it or leave it---UPS always wins! They have the time, and they have the money. They can be very patient......

 

[upsrwife]

Its not to plot on ways to get revenge. He drove into his bosses doghouse he needs to drive himself out by doing the job. All this plotting on how to get one up on the boss is just going to end up continuing his misery. Its not what you want to hear but god help me its the truth.

sometimes some of you blow everything out of proportion, Who is plotting? He just wants to be left alone. All we are doing is keeping track of the constant picking on him. and it didn't start with the tier 3 accident, which really didn't end up being tier 3 because nobody was towed, it started long before, it started when my husband had to start taking time off for personal medical care. it's just that it's worst right now. But we haven't plotted a darn thing, why is keeping track of constant harrassment plotting? We are not the ones keeping things "stirred up" they are. We are not talking about a trouble maker here, my husband is the guy who helps everyone out, helps other drivers, has alot of friends at work, shows up never late, works on saturday if asked. How are they making him a better driver able to "do the job" if he is constantly getting pulled into the office for someing like this? over a safety 3 x 5 card? that he knows and did before...jeez...it was an accident, that's why its called an ACCIDENT. does it make him some crazed out of control driver? no. We want to live a quiet peacefull life as well, they just keep nitpicking and keeping things miserable. UPS always wins? they are not above the rules of a contract or the rules of life. How is telling someone they are "getting fired on friday" and using "or else" after every sentence managing? It makes me a revengful person just because I don't want my husband to sit back and take it up the ? We just want them to leave him alone and let him work. If he does something wrong, great, punish him, but picking things out of thin air? making up re-hire stipulations? threatening him every other day? how can that be ok?

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

sometimes some of you blow everything out of proportion, Who is plotting? He just wants to be left alone. All we are doing is keeping track of the constant picking on him. and it didn't start with the tier 3 accident, which really didn't end up being tier 3 because nobody was towed, it started long before, it started when my husband had to start taking time off for personal medical care. it's just that it's worst right now. But we haven't plotted a darn thing, why is keeping track of constant harrassment plotting? We are not the ones keeping things "stirred up" they are. We are not talking about a trouble maker here, my husband is the guy who helps everyone out, helps other drivers, has alot of friends at work, shows up never late, works on saturday if asked. How are they making him a better driver able to "do the job" if he is constantly getting pulled into the office for someing like this? over a safety 3 x 5 card? that he knows and did before...jeez...it was an accident, that's why its called an ACCIDENT. does it make him some crazed out of control driver? no. We want to live a quiet peacefull life as well, they just keep nitpicking and keeping things miserable. UPS always wins? they are not above the rules of a contract or the rules of life. How is telling someone they are "getting fired on friday" and using "or else" after every sentence managing? It makes me a revengful person just because I don't want my husband to sit back and take it up the ? We just want them to leave him alone and let him work. If he does something wrong, great, punish him, but picking things out of thin air? making up re-hire stipulations? threatening him every other day? how can that be ok?

This is the UPS way, the bottom line. some employees; not most, not all, not a few, some are picked on and belittled, nitpicked and straight-up harrassed. It's happened to me, it's happened to many.

Some managers utilize people skills, while some don't have any whatsoever so they tend to fly off the handle easily or harrass employees they feel they don't have complete control of. That is what it usually comes down to; a manager with a quick temper and some sort of inferiority complex or even narcissist PD that must be in control at all times and is unreasonable/and or irrational.

Roll with the punches, do the job right and to the best of ability, and hope the crosshairs move in time.

 

[Channahon]

Just my thoughts, after reading this whole thread.

If I'm not mistaken, your husband returned to UPS with a suspension and no back pay for his accident. That in intself, leads me to believe there was some admission of his failure to follow the safe driving methods.

Your husband needs to accept the conditions of getting his job, which had been agreed upon by the Union and UPS.

There was a missed opportunity here by your husband and UPS management. And that opportunity would have been to wipe the slate clean, start over, with both parties being respectful of each other and the decision of the grievance.

However, that didn't happen, so it's business as usual, it appears. UPS management still harassing your husband, your husband being stressed out over his memorization of safety methods.

He should stand up for himself, take the intiative to express his concerns. since returning to UPS and get a resolution. Employment is a 2 way street, and sometimes there are speed bumps, and other times a smooth traffic flow.

 

[chopstic]

Although i dont agree with the management harassment, i think it would be wise to just memorize the cards. How hard can it be? To become a driver you have to memorize the driving habits and driving checklist, so this safety jargon should be easy stuff for any driver to memorize

 

[My 2 Cents]

...and it didn't start with the tier 3 accident, which really didn't end up being tier 3 because nobody was towed...jeez...it was an accident, that's why its called an ACCIDENT...

I don't think towing has anything to do with a it being a Tier 3 - if it was an intersection, it is a Tier 3.

And there's no such thing as an accident. UPS is never going to be a world-class safety organization with lines like that. I ran a red-light and got in an ACCIDENT. I walked on a moving belt and fell off and broke my neck ACCIDENTALLY.

 

[dillweed]

sometimes some of you blow everything out of proportion, Who is plotting? He just wants to be left alone...

Hate to tell you this but no UPS employee is left alone. We all work our butts off, help each other, memorize the stinkin' cards and handle the crap when it comes our way. In 15 years I've seen more drivers fired and hired back than I can remember. The ones who survived kept their noses clean and learned from benefit of the union how to withstand the pressure.

Sorry your husband is going through this. Has he considered working for a different company? UPSers have to stubborn, thick-skinned and half crazy. My union rep once told me "this isn't always a nice place to work".

 

[upsrwife]

Your husband needs to accept the conditions of getting his job, which had been agreed upon by the Union and UPS.

the only condition was joining the safety committee, which he has done. None of the safety committee members know the cards word for word, they just know them. Now, because of fear, my husband does know them word for word.

Outside of the panel room, they offered him a suspension, and go back to work or go in front of panel and take a chance. he took the deal, but he always has said he knew he was at fault, that wasn't the argument. it was whether he should have been fired or not.

The local union prez called me today. There is no stipulation to memorize the cards and no employee has to memorize them word for word. He was really upset that they were threatening firing him and saying it was a stipulation so he was going to take care of that. Supposably he has heard from like 30 other drivers getting written up for the same thing the past couple weeks. So hopefully things will calm down. Now, if they could just leave him alone and let him work. That's all we want.

 

[dillweed]

the only condition was joining the safety committee, which he has done. None of the safety committee members know the cards word for word, they just know them. Now, because of fear, my husband does know them word for word.

Outside of the panel room, they offered him a suspension, and go back to work or go in front of panel and take a chance. he took the deal, but he always has said he knew he was at fault, that wasn't the argument. it was whether he should have been fired or not.

The local union prez called me today...

OK, I have to ask. What the hell is your husband doing? Why isn't he speaking to the union himself? Why isn't he clickiing computer keys himself? Even my husband will do that if I get the website up for him.

Give him all the support in the world, talk and love him through this ordeal but don't let him become paralized from it. Encourage him to dive in and muddle through this stuff. He'll come out wiser and stronger for it.

 

[tieguy]

So when he get in the truck my husband is going to say "since your here with me, you can help me study the Space and Visibility rules" which of course my husband does know word for word, i'm sure the labor mgr does not .

so the saga continues......................

Wife this is what I was referencing when I said the plotting. If he makes that comment he is going to come across as a wise guy who is not being receptive to the training taking place and that will not help him find his peace of mind.

We take accidents very seriously. More so with tier 3 accidents. Your husband is going through all this because that is your districts policy not because someone does not like him. Its not picking its training, retraining, and making sure he fully understands and demonstrates his understanding. The ultimate result is to his benifit. If he takes to the training and applies it every day then he will eliminate future accidents and future heartache.

labor managers don't drive and don't get tested on ketter audits. I wouldn't expect to find one that has all that information memorized.
This is something that is not going away so he's better off getting it memorized and moving on.

On another point again the accident you described was an intersection accident. As such it is a tier three regardless of whether the car was towed or not.

 

[upsrwife]

My husband talked to union people. The prez called me because he misplaced my husbands cell number, so he called the house and asked me what happened.

And he hates the computer, he sits here and reads the posts, but really doesn't want to be on it. He does fight, he does stand up for himself, he is just fearfull right now on how to do it, he has never been in this situation, but he is just not one to ask for advise on the computer.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I would think that if my livelihood were on the line I would get over my fear of computers in a hurry. That being said, he is very lucky to have someone such as yourself supporting him fully in this and will need your support more than ever as I fear this will get much worse before it gets better. However, he does need to become much more assertive while remaining respectful and while also keeping in mind that one slip of the tongue (re: Tieguy's wiseguy comment) may lead to a pink slip for the 2nd and perhaps final time.

 

[Upslady20]

I don't know what the big deal is here.. After reading all of the posts it seems clear to me.. Document conversations with management good and bad...learn the safety information all drivers are now expected to know it so just do it... make sure you do all of the methods when performing your job.. do not engage management in conversation or make comments back to them that can be taken and thrown back at you.
You need to just fly under the radar and know your stuff.. end of story.. quick looking for more trouble it will slap you down really hard next time.

 

[trickpony1]

upserwife-
Stupid me.
Please read my post number 45 in the "It's official....he got his job back" thread.
I meant to post it here. I don't know how to cut and paste cuz I'm just a dumb truckdriver.
Hope it helps.

 

[Braveheart]

My guess is that the drivers you mentioned had other issues with management. .... Mgmt wanted them gone.

It is not the made up crap that is at issue. It is the reason it is made up! UPS does not fire drivers just to reduce the cost of the payroll.

Actually, in the short haul, a new driver will cost you a whole lot more than a scratch senior driver will.

Here are some of the added costs - more supervision - claims - customer relations - missed pus - reduction of initial performance - accidents - other safety issues - possible damages - route or area knowledge

I had a former manager tell me that they are taught to harass 10 to 20 % of the drivers at any given time to keep the other 80-90% in line. His words not mine.

 

[UPS Lifer]

I had a former manager tell me that they are taught to harass 10 to 20 % of the drivers at any given time to keep the other 80-90% in line. His words not mine.

I don't doubt you heard a comment like that. People miscommunicate all the time... everyone is guilty of that. We are human and don't always get our point across the right way.

He was referring to the 80-20 rule. No matter what you do, where you work, how you live, to move in a positive direction you need to prioritize what will get you the biggest bang for your buck or your effort.

If your manager said that they are taught to harass he misspoke.

All I can tell you is that in all my years as a manager, there is no unwritten rule or thought process at any level that I have observed that feels that we can be more cost effective if we get rid of senior drivers, just because they cost the company more.

If that were the case - I would have been fired years ago as a manager because they could get 2 managers for what they were paying for me!

If there is a "target" on a driver's back (or any employee including management) it is because that person is in the bottom 20% of the "hot button" at that time.

This is life - you either continue to get better or you go. Every successful company or person uses this sort of standard to improve. If the company is in the bottom 20% the same rule applies!

 

[UPS Lifer]

upserwife-
Stupid me.
Please read my post number 45 in the "It's official....he got his job back" thread.
I meant to post it here. I don't know how to cut and paste cuz I'm just a dumb truckdriver.
Hope it helps.

Trickpony - here is your post!
Tell your husband this is a common tactic used by the company.
Management will "tag team" your husband with passive aggressive, antagonistic, subtle harassment until he "loses his cool", "flies off the hook", "goes off" and punches the perpetrators out of frustration.
As another poster described, management will "push your husbands buttons" until he takes a swing at one of them. Then it's all over.
I've seen this occur to two PC drivers. They are no longer employed.
They tried it on me but I just stood there smiling and acting stupid. I guess feeder drivers aren't strung as tight as PC drivers.
Tell hubby to really try to avoid being in a room alone with one or more management people because it will be their word against his and we all know management doesn't lie

 

[rod]

I found in my 30 years at UPS that "acting stupid" was one of the best defenses. Probably be too late in this case though

 

[tieguy]

I had a former manager tell me that they are taught to harass 10 to 20 % of the drivers at any given time to keep the other 80-90% in line. His words not mine.

probably joking when he said it. We have an 80/20 rule. twenty percent of the drivers cause 80 percent of the problems.

Call it management or call it harrassment but who do you think managements going to spend most of their time on? The twenty least best(oxymoron) or the 80 percent that have few problems.