Time Studies

[upsdude]

Upsvette,
Can you tell us where they send the supervisors that forget how to do their job?

Atlanta?

 

[diesel96]

No trickpony, that driver wasn't shot at sunrise. He was re-assigned to Feeders because that's where UPS sends the package car drivers who have trouble remembering how to do their job.

Message from a Feeder Driver:

A)If you are a Center Mgr or an On Road Sup in Pkgs YOU don't make the choice to reassign pkg drivers to feeders. (Feeder Dept re-assigns us)By senority and neccessity.

B)Remembering how to do our job? After 20 yrs in that pkg car I can sit in that jump seat and critisize your methods as well as any Mgr./Observer(probably give you a 50% effective rating also)

Its all about playing God in that jump seat thinking your the "Methods Guru" and making pen strokes on that clipboard of your's and using human manipulation and behavior modification tactics making the honest employee(driver) think he's stealing time and not laboring hard enough.

Sure you have a few slackers who deserve this treatment,but you know darn well most drivers have un-fair time studies and hardly no time for a descent lunch hour.This might explain a majority of the negative comments.

 

[trickpony1]

When the time study guy says you are spending too much time in package selection simply say "you're right".
Then drive down the next street 4 times because EDD said a package was on the shelf that you couldn't find so you went to the next package/stop.

 

[Anonymous Whole]

Upsvette,
Can you tell us where they send the supervisors that forget how to do their job?

I give up. Is it BD or IE?

 

[browniehound]

Btw Brownie.......
We are coming for you this weekend!

At 13 and 1/2 back I'm really worried. And your man Torre is too scared to pitch the 44 year-old clemens against the Sox.1

 

[ups_vette]

UPSVette,
These drivers should be disiplined. There is a way to prove if a driver takes more lunch and breaks than is allowed. We have the technololgy to do so. With the DIAD IV, PAS, and GPS , its very hard for a driver to hide stealing time. My guess is, its the minority that is "taking extra time at lunch because they deserve it" and not the majority of the hard working drivers.

UPS drivers work harder than anyone in the industry, yet they are criticized and scrutinized more than their less hard-woking bretheren. What gives?

And on top of that, do you think that people that are criticizing and scrutinizing (the on-car sups)them could do a better job than them day after day. I think not!

brownie...1st of all..I totally agree with your 1st point.it is a minority of drivers who take more lunch/personal time than allowed.

Those "less hard working" drivers for other companies are paid far less than UPS drivers.

Your 3rd point was that the on-car supe could not do the drivers job day in and day out. I disagree because the majority of on-car supes actually diid the job day in and day out before being promoted.

 

[ups_vette]

Message from a Feeder Driver:

A)If you are a Center Mgr or an On Road Sup in Pkgs YOU don't make the choice to reassign pkg drivers to feeders. (Feeder Dept re-assigns us)By senority and neccessity.

B)Remembering how to do our job? After 20 yrs in that pkg car I can sit in that jump seat and critisize your methods as well as any Mgr./Observer(probably give you a 50% effective rating also)

Its all about playing God in that jump seat thinking your the "Methods Guru" and making pen strokes on that clipboard of your's and using human manipulation and behavior modification tactics making the honest employee(driver) think he's stealing time and not laboring hard enough.

Sure you have a few slackers who deserve this treatment,but you know darn well most drivers have un-fair time studies and hardly no time for a descent lunch hour.This might explain a majority of the negative comments.

diesel96.. I ordered a sence of humor for you from Amazon. You should be recieving it in the mail shortly.

Till it arrives, try not to take every written word seriously.

 

[moreluck]

ups_vette.....if the sense of humor was over $25, Amazon offers free shipping!!

 

[browniehound]

brownie...1st of all..I totally agree with your 1st point.it is a minority of drivers who take more lunch/personal time than allowed.

Those "less hard working" drivers for other companies are paid far less than UPS drivers.

Your 3rd point was that the on-car supe could not do the drivers job day in and day out. I disagree because the majority of on-car supes actually diid the job day in and day out before being promoted.

UPSvette,
You are 100% correct about the on-cars being able to do the job. Every one of them that I have ever known was a driver to start (they actually did it for a few years as opposed to now when they are only required to do it for 30 days), but my question is could they run scratch day after day?

You are also correct about the competition not being paid as much, but my perception is we do at least twice as much work(probably more) and I know we are not being twice as much as them. Have you ever seen the inside of a DHL van?

These guys get about 20 bucks an hour to drive around and deliver envelopes. Its a wonder they are even a threat to our business.

 

[browniehound]

And on top of that, do you think that people that are criticizing and scrutinizing (the on-car sups)them could do a better job than them day after day. I think not!

UPSvette,
I guess here is my point: there are going to be on-cars that CAN do a better job than the route driver, but at the same time there are going to be on-cars that CAN'T. What should we do about the on-cars that tell a driver he is 1 hour paid over for the day but would be 2 hours over if it was HIS route? Thanks in advance for your response.

 

[diesel96]

diesel96.. I ordered a sence of humor for you from Amazon. You should be recieving it in the mail shortly.

Till it arrives, try not to take every written word seriously.

While your at it,order me The DVD also,after 20 yrs.in pkgs.and dealing with mngmt I could use a dose of Humor.

I've been ridden with so many times I re-wrote the UPS "340 Methods" Handbook.Amazon sells it alsn sale to all UPS Employee's...Free shipping thru Fed Ex Ground.

 

[Brownnblue]

In my career with UPS I actually did over 50 time studies and analyzed them. In addition as the District Time Study Co-Oridnator I review hundreds of time studies with the drivers.

Here is a typical example of a driver who thinks he's following the methods;

Driver stops the car, opens bulkhead, selects a package, walks 30 feet to a retail store, goes inside, completes the delivery, walks back to car, opens bulkhead, selects another package, walks 40 feet to next store, goes inside, completes stop, walks 40 feet back to car, starts engin and drives away.

Did that driver use the proper methods and be given the planned time for the way he delivered those two stops?

The answer is....NO. He did not use the proper methods.

The driver should have selected both stops when he stoped the car, walked to the 1st stop, completed that delivery, then walked the 20 feet to the 2nd stop, completed that stop, then walked the 40 feet back to the car, started up and drove away.

He didn't carry an optimum load (one package weighed 15 lbs, the other 12 lbs., and both small boxes).

He walked a total of 140 feet when he should have walked only 90 feet (20 feet between 1st and 2nd stop. That was 50 feet more than required.

He opened and closed the bulkhead twice, when only once was required.

He should not and will not be given the planned time for walking the additional 50 feet or for open and closing the bulkhead the 2nd time.

This is but one example of why a driver is over planned, even though he feels he is working the best way.

I could give hundreds of such examples of why a driver doesn't meet expectations.

METHODS, METHODS, METHODS. Just because a driver thinks he's using the proper methods, doesn't mean he actually is using them.

Oh man, do I have questions about this scenario. But before I do my best Arnold Horschak impression, I would like to ask this; did this actually happen or is this just a hypothetical situation?

 

[browniehound]

In my career with UPS I actually did over 50 time studies and analyzed them. In addition as the District Time Study Co-Oridnator I review hundreds of time studies with the drivers.

Here is a typical example of a driver who thinks he's following the methods;

Driver stops the car, opens bulkhead, selects a package, walks 30 feet to a retail store, goes inside, completes the delivery, walks back to car, opens bulkhead, selects another package, walks 40 feet to next store, goes inside, completes stop, walks 40 feet back to car, starts engin and drives away.

Did that driver use the proper methods and be given the planned time for the way he delivered those two stops?

The answer is....NO. He did not use the proper methods.

The driver should have selected both stops when he stoped the car, walked to the 1st stop, completed that delivery, then walked the 20 feet to the 2nd stop, completed that stop, then walked the 40 feet back to the car, started up and drove away.

He didn't carry an optimum load (one package weighed 15 lbs, the other 12 lbs., and both small boxes).

He walked a total of 140 feet when he should have walked only 90 feet (20 feet between 1st and 2nd stop. That was 50 feet more than required.

He opened and closed the bulkhead twice, when only once was required.

He should not and will not be given the planned time for walking the additional 50 feet or for open and closing the bulkhead the 2nd time.

This is but one example of why a driver is over planned, even though he feels he is working the best way.

I could give hundreds of such examples of why a driver doesn't meet expectations.

METHODS, METHODS, METHODS. Just because a driver thinks he's using the proper methods, doesn't mean he actually is using them.

Whenever possible, I always select as many stops I can handle from one parked postion. Problem is, its getting rarer and rarer that the packages are small enough (you said 12 and 15 lbs to 2 retail stores, when does that ever happen?) to carry 2 stops at once.

Even in the residential areas its getting difficult. If I look at my EDD in the A.M. and see that I have a stop for 3, 4, and 5 Maple st., I think to my self that I can do 3 stops in the time it may take me to do 1 stop normally, great. Come to find out 3 Maple is getting 4 tires, 4 Maple is getting a bowflex, and 5 Maple is getting a freaking 8-foot dresser from pottery barn. So now in the real world, I'm stuck there for 10 minutes when my allowance will only be about 3 minutes.

 

[705red]

red....Yes..I did review that TS with the driver. I review EVERY TS with the driver. In the District I worked every TS is revied with the driver. The Observer reviews EVERY stop the driver made that day, pointing out to the driver where he used the correct method and where he didn't, The allowance developed for that area is based on a driver using the correct methods, not on incorrect methods.

If you had "busted out" your handtruck for a 12 lb and a 15lb package, not only would you NOT have recieved the allowance for the handtruck, any TS Observier would know that you are "playing games", or the laziest driver in the history of UPS. You're Center Manager would have a discussion with you and your steward about your actions during the TS.

Vette I am the steward and safety comes first, so if i FEEL like i need a handcart i will use a hand cart! And theres NOTHING you can Say about it! When i fell like im a lazy driver i will let you know that im coming after your job!

 

[705red]

I run about 1.5 to 2 hours over every day and nothinh is ever said, because when im off the swing guys cant finish without help! Now it wasnt always like this i used to bonus 45 minutes a day, then 1 day the route wasnt magicaly worth anything, no one can explain why? So i will take care of my customers, take my lunch, and file for over 9.5 pay every week.

 

[Brownnblue]

I think Browniehound & I are on the same page with this, so.........................

OH, OHOH, OHOHOH, pick me, pick me. I have questions. Pick me, pick me.

1) How would the time study observer know for certain that these parcels weighed 12 & 15 pounds? If it is retail (or for that matter, anywhere), then a dishonest weight measurement by the shipper could have caused the driver to make that extra trip.
2) At exactly what point is that driver allowed to make an extra trip to the truck for the second parcel? At exactly what point is it more efficient to break out the hand truck? Is it measured per piece? Per total weight? Per package size? Per weight per package? Any variables such as awkward contents, ripped or broken box, or possibility of fragile contents?
3) (Browniehound covered this in the last post) You said that there was one small size parcel averaging 13.5 pounds for each retail store. Realistically, retail stores will have more then one parcel per day. How does the time study observer take this into account? Could it be possible that the driver realizes that his/her next time study will be in the year 2022 (it was 15 years between mine) and is trying to "convey a message" to the observer? And if the observer calculates the activity the way vette did, what kind of allowance does the driver get for the next fifteen years. Is the driver simply out of luck because of a light load on one day?
4) Let's look at this from a different angle, one I've never heard from the IE side. Many drivers build up positive relationships with their customers, to the point where the customer will actually help out the driver doing certain elements of the time study job. Examples might be helping out unloading at certain loading docks, or meeting the driver at the front walkway for a residential package, or helping the driver with a heavy package. Now if this occurs on time study day, is the driver given the allowance for the actual occurrence, or is the driver given what "the planned time should be"? We all know that people move and things change (especially in 15 years). What is the procedure here? It would seem to me that if your docking a driver for method irregularities, but not giving him credit for building relationships that lead to help on the route, that this would be improper. You can't have it both ways.
5) How does a package that weighs one pound differentiated from a package that weighs sixty pounds in the calculation?
6) A retail store would be more busy during certain periods, is there any way to account for this. I remember one post here that said that the building that he was working in was time studied in the summer, when traffic from schools in the area was not a factor. Are things like this considered, or does the driver just have to wait fifteen years and hope that they are time studied while school is in session.
7) Kudos to vette for going over the time study with the driver. But despite my pleas and begging, my time study has still not been reviewed and it has been five months. WHY? Again, is it too much to ask to see the quota system for my job??!!??

 

[browniehound]

Brownblue, you make so many excellent points, but I still have one question. Why hasn't one person from IE posted a rebuttle on how us drivers are being screwed during time studies?

Over9five also made a great point in saying its their numbers, let them worry about it. But at the same time I want to do a good job. Heck, I want to be the best at my job. If my sup. told me I was an hour paid over I would be pissed. I bust my ass every day and for someone to tell me they should be docking me an hour (thats what they are effectively saying if they say I'm an hour paid over) irritrates me.

 

[705red]

Brownblue, you make so many excellent points, but I still have one question. Why hasn't one person from IE posted a rebuttle on how us drivers are being screwed during time studies?

Over9five also made a great point in saying its their numbers, let them worry about it. But at the same time I want to do a good job. Heck, I want to be the best at my job. If my sup. told me I was an hour paid over I would be pissed. I bust my ass every day and for someone to tell me they should be docking me an hour (thats what they are effectively saying if they say I'm an hour paid over) irritrates me.

Dont look at being an hour over as not doing your job! look at as an investment, thats roughly an extra $10,000 a year that ups didnt want to pay you for doing that job! Over 30 years thats $300,000 now thats a bonus in my books!

 

[diesel96]

I bust my ass every day and for someone to tell me they should be docking me an hour (thats what they are effectively saying if they say I'm an hour paid over) irritrates me.

If it irrates you then your Mgr's pyscology is working.Part of your Mgr's training is to get the most out of their employee's.
Don't not do any shortcuts or lunch skipping to appease your Mgr(unless your bucking for Supervisor position).
Just remember,A fair day's work for a fair days pay.

 

[browniehound]

If it irrates you then your Mgr's pyscology is working.Part of your Mgr's training is to get the most out of their employee's.
Don't not do any shortcuts or lunch skipping to appease your Mgr(unless your bucking for Supervisor position).
Just remember,A fair day's work for a fair days pay.

It irrates me that even on the best day I could possibly have and no matter how fast I want to get done, and if I ignore all of my customer's conversations I will still be paid over. I just want it to be fair. If you're going to hold me to your numbers, at least make them fair, or demostrate to me that you can run scratch yourself.