By The Book
Well-Known Member
I get that, but I think if we were in his shoes it just isn't that easy to do. Now if the days are the same and the driver starts doing 2 stops per hour less you make a good point.
Tips and techniques for defending a driver at panel.....
- Thread starter badsporh
- Start date
imwell
I'm as productive as the methods allow.
It's a job of methods, not a job of pace. You can be disciplined for "methods" violations, not for "pace" violations.
Overpaid Union Thug
Well-Known Member
The guy is apparently getting screwed by both the company and the local. That is a sad situation to be in.
jumpman23
Oh Yeah
Everyday is different even if its the same amount of work. Different weather conditions, traffic, time at pickups and pickup volume, signature waiting, cod, how the driver feels physically that day, load condition, what time he actually physically got out of building. No 2 days are ever the same even if same amount of work is duplicated 1,2, or 3 days in a row.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
The union does not recognize their numbers, but the problem is they recognize working the same supervised as unsupervised. And they do recognize having to work as instructed.
The SPORH is useless due to fact of being on different routes and or different areas. If the number of business and residential stops are not identical, then the SPORH is a useless number. If he was not delivering the exact same area, the numbers are useless. Different time allowances for different areas. You cannot achieve the same SPORH in a residential plat where the houses are 75 feet from the road as you can where the houses are 25 feet from the road.
The not working within the 30 inch work area and the rest is a stretch on UPS's part for discipline on failure to work as directed by following the methods.
What region are you in? Has he received a warning letter or suspension for these supposed infractions? The listed violations are not cardinal sins and cannot go directly to discharge without progressive discipline.
Sounds to me like a collusion between UPS and this BA to "eliminate" this employee.
1. Union steward
2. No vote advocate
3. Ran against the current BA and almost beat her.
4. Filed NLRB charges
5. Recent accident.
One of the problems here is that there is not much to do until after the grievance process. NLRB charges, lawsuits.
From what I see here, the panel will throw UPS out of the room, so to speak. He should be back unless this BA has friends on the panel.
Dragon
Package Center Manager
Everyone says your route has to be the same as the OJS. Well that's false, your route had variations over the 3 day ride you know it and I know it. You were supervised for 3 days and worked at an acceptable pace (just a guess) and the first day un-supervised and the next 11 you failed to work at the same pace. Driver didn't even make an attempt afterwards. Case sounds like it has some merit, remember the labor manager also agreed to take it to panel and all the labor managers I know are pretty sharp and are not going to waste their time on something they cannot win.
Any decent show steward knows you win some and you lose some. You cannot go around biting the hand that feeds you on a daily basis and not expect a swift kick to the ribs when you have bitten one to many times.
Any decent show steward knows you win some and you lose some. You cannot go around biting the hand that feeds you on a daily basis and not expect a swift kick to the ribs when you have bitten one to many times.
Dragon
Package Center Manager
and like most people they blink once they are told how much it will cost just to get the case started.
UPS is not afraid of lawyers believe me. I should say lawsuits.
bleedinbrown58
That’s Craptacular
That's what I thought too....a fair day's work for a fair day's pay....not your SPORH has to be maintained at this # or you're fired.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
Are new drivers even taught to use the 30" selection area anymore?
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
They are called "lock in rides" for a reason and, yes, you can be fired for failure to maintain demonstrated performance.
Z
ZQXC
Guest
That went out the window with orion.
Sounds like their Is more to this story,than being told.
Indecisi0n
Well-Known Member
If your coming here for advise he is a goner.
10 point
Well-Known Member
Those three days are ALWAYS tailored in my experience and leave building time is ALWAYS a fraction of reality.
Airs are pawned off on other routes. Load tailored.
We know the story and so do you.
Why in the heck is he going to "the panel" and the local is just now requesting info that they can't use because it wasn't presented in the local hearing? Did I miss something?
bleedinbrown58
That’s Craptacular
That's true....that usually tends to be the case.
trickpony1
Well-Known Member
How about this guy is being used as an example to teach others a lesson? The center manager knows all the other drivers are watching this unfold. These same terrorist techniques work for keeping the population in line over in the middle east.
Perhaps if he had come in early, massaged his load, worked through lunch and break and clocked out as he entered the building he would still be employed?
Perhaps if he had come in early, massaged his load, worked through lunch and break and clocked out as he entered the building he would still be employed?
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
Labor manager knows he will lose this, but will most likely not have any back pay involved, so in a sense, the labor manager will win this.
To UPS, sometimes it is more of an attitude of "hit him where it hurts, in the pocketbook." UPS is showing that, while we may not be able to fire you, we can cost you thousands of dollars, so remember that.
Notretiredyet
Well-Known Member
If driver feels he has not been given proper representation at the panel he should make a statement to that effect at that time. On every discharge that has ever been decided at panel, thankfully just a few over the course of 25+yrs, the employee is asked prior to the decision if he feels he has been represented properly. Hopefully the BA won't risk the chance of him filing NLRB charges by throwing him under the bus. It sounds as if the local is making an effort to cover their butts on this one already by using a lawyer instead of the BA he ran against. It's times like these that can define the type of local you have, helping a former adversary regardless of a prior difference of opinions is what makes us a union. Hopefully your BA and local see it this way. I'm betting he's back without back pay for time lost, for both sides to save face.
10 point
Well-Known Member
Hopefully, he documented the details of the three day ride, what the OCS said and directed him to do that was out of the normal routine and DOL of that route plus did the OCS force him to finish a certain delivery area that he'd normally have to return to and start his pickups dangerously late just to get him off road earlier?
The local better fight hard on this one and he had better write everything down in every hearing and every conversation with both sides. He's got to be strong and keep his chin up.
The local better fight hard on this one and he had better write everything down in every hearing and every conversation with both sides. He's got to be strong and keep his chin up.
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