Union - is it Socialism?

[1989]

news flash everyone doesnt want to come to america.

secondly workers arent necessarily capitalists because they dont own capital. slavery had workers.

Very few capitalists own capital.

 

[BrownFlush]

Before there were Unions, there was no middle class.

 

[TearsInRain]

Politics and civics are not your forte

The unions were more socialist prior to WWII. Worker control, authority from the bottom up. Very different today, not really socialist. Very top heavy with power balance.

this is not what socialism means

pls stop getting your political science education from fox news

 

[rickyb]

Very few capitalists own capital.

and to be fair you had accumulation of capital under other systems.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

this is not what socialism means

pls stop getting your political science education from fox news

That's funny. Socialism is worker control of the means of production. Socialism has been dying since the early 20th century. End of story. Not that I know anything about anything, right?

 

[Boxslinger11]

Is union participation a form of socialism? If so, what does that mean for people forced to join the union to have a job at UPS? If you are a Trump supporter how do you reconcile your political leanings and socialist union affiliations? Asking for a friend. Hope nobody gets irritable or starts throwing out Tidepod bs, wacko conspiracy 911 Truther crap.

soviet union has the word union in it

 

[Pullman Brown]

Did my mention of the Supreme Court case make the thread more about a current event than a union issue?

No

 

[Coldworld]

Ahh that’s not very nice. No real answer to my question or observation. Typical.

Same thing you would get from a typical center manager....

 

[Non sequitur]

The United States of America is a union. And it better have good representatives or your friend.u.c.-.ed

 

[Brohn Bron]

Don't feel guilty about benefitting from Union pay/benefits/protections. Have a lotta Trumpies on here who don't pay attention to the fact that Republicans would end Unions and the worker rights and protections that come with union membership if they could.

On that note, it'll be interesting to see how the conservative-majority Supreme Court rules this week on mandatory public union fees. A ruling in favor of Janus (plaintiff) would end mandatory union fees for about five million public employees from 23 states without right-to-work laws.

First person to address this question. It blows my mind that ones political leanings would stray so far from how you put food on the table. On one hand trump makes it seem like he supports the average blue collar worker but his past business history shows he’s a corrupt capitalist who doesn’t pay his vendors and would rather fight and settle his debts in court. Is it just a head in the sand sort of thing?

Thank you I will be looking out for the Supreme Court ruling!

 

[olroadbeech]

Unions are a wedge between big government and big businesses, so says my Republican U.S. rep. and I agree. They (unions) get in trouble when they morph into a left wing p.a.c. Union means your getting the highest quality worker.

35 % of feeder drivers are top rate
40% are mediocre at best
25% are poor

in the non union trucking companies I have worked for the majority of drivers are much better than UPS feeder drivers because those companies can get rid of the poor drivers.

now i am talking about the specialized non union trucking companies that I have worked for like heavy equipment and other companies that have specialized hauls. not general freight hauling companies. it that case UPS feeder drivers are better.

 

[olroadbeech]

Before there were Unions, there was no middle class.

If you study history , when you have no middle class , you will have revolution. The US's middle class has been slowing dwindling so we are headed that way.

 

[Non sequitur]

35 % of feeder drivers are top rate
40% are mediocre at best
25% are poor

in the non union trucking companies I have worked for the majority of drivers are much better than UPS feeder drivers because those companies can get rid of the poor drivers.

now i am talking about the specialized non union trucking companies that I have worked for like heavy equipment and other companies that have specialized hauls. not general freight hauling companies. it that case UPS feeder drivers are better.

While this may be true remember the saying judge not or you'll be judged. Encouragement and direction is the humble route.

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

35 % of feeder drivers are top rate
40% are mediocre at best
25% are poor

in the non union trucking companies I have worked for the majority of drivers are much better than UPS feeder drivers because those companies can get rid of the poor drivers.

 

[JL 0513]

exchange of goods and services is a "market" not capitalism because you had exchange of goods and services under slavery.

getting "a pay check to buy things" is consumerism not unique to capitalism. people bought stuff under other systems

everyone doesnt benefit equally under capitalism, there are mostly losers and a few big winners.

workers recieve pay under other economic systems besides capitalism.

You are thinking of capitalism as simply an economic system by itself. Most countries don't operate in a black and white system. The US has many socialist government programs but is still a capitalists society. Socialist countries still have open markets using capitalism.

Any form of market trade is by definition capitalism. A farmer who owns a cow, even in a country that is largely socialist, still capitalizes from the milk produced and later the meat. There's no country where the government owns and controls the means of ALL production, unless I'm mistaken. A country such as North Korea might be close.

You need to understand what the term capitalism means, not just the broader economic systems.

 

[542thruNthru]

Did my mention of the Supreme Court case make the thread more about a current event than a union issue?

If @rickyb And @Monkey Butt are posting in the same thread.

It belongs in current events.

 

[Been In Brown Too Long]

First person to address this question. It blows my mind that ones political leanings would stray so far from how you put food on the table. On one hand trump makes it seem like he supports the average blue collar worker but his past business history shows he’s a corrupt capitalist who doesn’t pay his vendors and would rather fight and settle his debts in court. Is it just a head in the sand sort of thing?

Thank you I will be looking out for the Supreme Court ruling!

American voters continually vote against their best interests. I know plenty of people that are die hard union while being Trump supporters. Trump would do away with unions in a heartbeat if he could. How they resolve that I don't know. Most are worried more about the man coming to take away their gun, than the other man robbing him blind.

 

[TearsInRain]

That's funny. Socialism is worker control of the means of production. Socialism has been dying since the early 20th century. End of story. Not that I know anything about anything, right?

there are no "means of production" in a ing shipping company, we are a service industry primarily for the bourgeoisie so the idea that WITHIN THE UNION anything could be socialist is a fundamental ignorance of the term

i actually spent years learning about this, did you?

 

[wide load]

Is union participation a form of socialism? If so, what does that mean for people forced to join the union to have a job at UPS? If you are a Trump supporter how do you reconcile your political leanings and socialist union affiliations? Asking for a friend. Hope nobody gets irritable or starts throwing out Tidepod bs, wacko conspiracy 911 Truther crap.

Who gives an friend about political affiliations. You’re making 100k a year. If you’re that worried about politics, work in that field. As for your first question, it is quasi socialistic ideals. The social aspect was way more dominant at the inception of unionism when there were trade unions when everyone was on even playing field making the same. But now in 2018 take the IBT for example, you can be in the same union but you can make 11k a year or 111k a year. It’s not as socialistic as it once was. But like I said, don’t let your political beliefs dictate you. Your first loyalty are to the people at home that depend on you.

 

[Brohn Bron]

Most are worried more about the man coming to take away their gun, than the other man robbing him blind.

Man, that’s the truth right there!