UPS Bargaining Philosophy from UPS Policy manual

[Mugarolla]

Or we could put an end to the high-turnover, disposable workforce.

The constitution is fine. It's designing half the workforce to effectively be temps that's the problem.

That is everywhere. From Amazon to Walmart to Kroger.

Your not going to get a part time job anywhere making much more than $15/hr.

And UPS is based on part time due to the nature of it's business.

They would love to have split shift full time employees, but nobody else wants that. Hubs can do full time, but most of the areas are small centers with two shifts, pre-load and re-load. 4:00 AM-9:00 AM and 5:00 PM to 9:00 PM.

UPS would pay a pretty good wage for a full time split shift employee, but who wants to do this? They could never get enough to staff the operation. They get people with other full time jobs who want to supplement their income, or here for the insurance, or high school or college kids wanting to make a few bucks.

I am sorry, but part time is the nature of the beast.

But, soon enough, they will have to pay more just to keep employees.

 

[Tony Q]

I know for a fact Fed ex drivers make more then us I live next door to one . The actual real fed ex drivers that have to own 5 or more routes to be a subcontractor and then they hire a guy and while he is on golf course he pay him 15 bucks a hour to use his truck and deliver his route .Minus the gas and insurance he is making 6 figures easily ..and he also has no trouble putting his socks on in the morning because his knees don’t bend anymore ... Didnyou read where UPS strives to compete with completion salary. Amazon part time start rate 15 a hour.

Okay

 

[Tony Q]

Freight doesn't have more than half their members as short term, high turnover, part time employee either.

....and Ron Carey has been out of the game for over 20 years, while Hoffa has not righted the ship.

How about giving us an apples to apples scenario and distributing the credit where it belongs?

There is no excuse in not get over 50% of the members to vote in a contract, especially being electronic. The freight members are more involved member. Always have been. Always will be.

 

[PT Car Washer]

That is everywhere. From Amazon to Walmart to Kroger.

Your not going to get a part time job anywhere making much more than $15/hr.

And UPS is based on part time due to the nature of it's business.

They would love to have split shift full time employees, but nobody else wants that. Hubs can do full time, but most of the areas are small centers with two shifts, pre-load and re-load. 4:00 AM-9:00 AM and 5:00 PM to 9:00 PM.

UPS would pay a pretty good wage for a full time split shift employee, but who wants to do this? They could never get enough to staff the operation. They g et people with other full time jobs who want to supplement their income, or here for the insurance, or high school or college kids wanting to make a few bucks.

I am sorry, but part time is the nature of the beast.

But, soon enough, they will have to pay more just to keep employees.

UPS could easily have drivers load and unload their package cars in these small centers. They employ PT for the cheap wages and benefits and productivity. Ever see a Feeder driver loading a trailer? It is painful to watch.

 

[wilberforce15]

That is everywhere. From Amazon to Walmart to Kroger.

Your not going to get a part time job anywhere making much more than $15/hr.

And UPS is based on part time due to the nature of it's business.

They would love to have split shift full time employees, but nobody else wants that. Hubs can do full time, but most of the areas are small centers with two shifts, pre-load and re-load. 4:00 AM-9:00 AM and 5:00 PM to 9:00 PM.

UPS would pay a pretty good wage for a full time split shift employee, but who wants to do this? They could never get enough to staff the operation. They get people with other full time jobs who want to supplement their income, or here for the insurance, or high school or college kids wanting to make a few bucks.

I am sorry, but part time is the nature of the beast.

But, soon enough, they will have to pay more just to keep employees.

It is not the nature of the beast. The evidence for that is the tens of thousands of members who got paid $16+ on their very first day of work (adjusted for inflation). They created the low-wage revolving door for those following them. And then blame them for acting like a temp-job is a temp-job.

We are only asking for PT wages to have remained the same as they were decades ago. We'd take a big bite out of the damages, misloads, late departures, and service failures of all kinds. And you'd see PTers voting in large numbers.

 

[wilberforce15]

There is no excuse in not get over 50% of the members to vote in a contract, especially being electronic. The freight members are more involved member. Always have been. Always will be.

There is an excuse. YOU have created an entire class of people whose only experience with the union is having their money taken for nothing.

That's why they go out the door in a month or six, and don't vote.

They don't care about you because you have done less than nothing for them.

 

[PT Car Washer]

There is an excuse. YOU have created an entire class of people whose only experience with the union is having their money taken for nothing.

That's why they go out the door in a month or six, and don't vote.

They don't care about you because you have done less than nothing for them.

There is an excuse. YOU have created an entire class of people whose only experience with the union is having their money taken for nothing.

That's why they go out the door in a month or six, and don't vote.

They don't care about you because you have done less than nothing for them.

The Union fought for your minimum wage job with no benefits. The least you can do is pay your dues and $600 initiation fee.

 

[LagunaBrown]

Everybody is trying to place the blame for this imposed contract on everything and everyone, except where the real blame belongs.

This clause in the IBT Constitution was pointed out here long before the vote was over, and has been in the IBT Constitution for 25 years and no one has ever attempted to remove it. I believe @Bubblehead was the first to point it out here. Just like last contract, people complained that they were not told that Teamcare required a weekly punch.

You would think that we would do our due diligence and research on a 5 year contract before we voted.

We are the only ones to blame. Could not even get half the people to vote. If we did, they would be back at the table right now. UPS Freight did, UPS Airline mechanics did. Why couldn't we?

And here you are trying to blame UPS. While I know they are ruthless at times, and I but heads with them on a daily basis, let's look where you placed blame.

Facilitating open and honest communications with our employees, customers and stakeholders

They did. In most places people even complained that UPS nagged them all the time to vote. Legally, they are not allowed to discuss the contract with you. Is this what you wanted? For UPS to tell you that Hoffa will impose the contract if you do not vote. They told you to vote.

Considering all good-faith proposals brought to the table during negotiations

They did. They negotiated since last November, and agreed with the IBT on this latest good-faith proposal. Do you not forget that the IBT negotiated this, has called it the best contract ever, and recommended a yes vote?

recognize the contributions of our employees

You do again realize that the lower paid 22.4 driver was proposed, and agreed to, by the IBT as well? While I believe we could have done much better, we did get a raise, for FT and PT, pension and H&W improvements and new jobs committed to.

competition and fairly reward the hard work, teamwork and determination of our employees

Again, I think we could have, and maybe should have, gotten better. But even with the lower paid 22.4 drivers, we are still the highest paid in the industry. Ask a FedEx driver, or DHL, or Holland, or ABF, or Amazon driver what they make.

Do you really want to make a change?

Elect someone in the next IBT election that will fix this in the contract in 2023. But yes, we are stuck with this for 5 years because we could not even get half our people to make a phone call or log into a webpage.

Shame on us.

Finally someone that takes ownership. Honestly that’s the answer if you want change

 

[Over disciplined0123]

UPS could easily have drivers load and unload their package cars in these small centers. They employ PT for the cheap wages and benefits and productivity. Ever see a Feeder driver loading a trailer? It is painful to watch.

They used to in 1970s then things changed

 

[Over disciplined0123]

They are not small business owners they are told what to wear and what to do by management they are momentary penalties for Making pickups to early or too late along being told how to run their routes. What kind of business owner takes orders from anyone

 

[FrigidFTSup]

They are not small business owners they are told what to wear and what to do by management they are momentary penalties for Making pickups to early or too late along being told how to run their routes. What kind of business owner takes orders from anyone

Every McDonalds, Burger King, Taco Bell, etc owner in America

 

[Jackburton]

Every McDonalds, Burger King, Taco Bell, etc owner in America

You forgot the “independent” UPS store franchisees.

 

[FrigidFTSup]

You forgot the “independent” UPS store franchisees.

Damn, can’t believe I missed that one

 

[Crosscutters]

Wise words from an obvious sage.

Question for you. Why wasnt the previous contract forced after the first no vote?

 

[Bubblehead]

There is no excuse in not get over 50% of the members to vote in a contract, especially being electronic. The freight members are more involved member. Always have been. Always will be.

....and where did that get them???

 

[Bubblehead]

Question for you. Why wasnt the previous contract forced after the first no vote?

Because it passed.

 

[Crosscutters]

Because it passed.

I thought the first contract offer had health care deductibles that started at 100/200 then went to 500/1000 the last year. After it’s initial failure they decreased to nothing until year 5 and even then it was 100/200.

 

[Tony Q]

....and where did that get them???

Bragging rights that they always vote more than UPSers.

 

[Tony Q]

Question for you. Why wasnt the previous contract forced after the first no vote?

The master passed in the last contract. This time 6 out of 36 failed. Last contract I believe 21 failed. Totally different ball park.

 

[Indecisi0n]

Why do we have to wait until 2023???

Isn't the same language in Art 12, section 6 of the IBT Constitution available to the General Executive Board as it was in 2014 when they imposed 3 area supplements???

~Section 6. The General Executive Board is empowered to amend, delete, or add to this Article if at any time it believes such action will be in the interests of the International Union or its subordinate bodies.~

Seeing that more than half of the membership at UPS are part time employees that have continually demonstrated an unwillingness to vote, seems to me this action would be "in the interests of the International Union or its subordinate bodies".

Time to boot the partimers and count them separately.