UPS did not discriminate....sez jury....

[kidlogic]

Gee.. I am very surprised to read from all of you that sometime during your career you were treated like crap. Now Vette said that UPS only treats crap like crap and proof of how good we have it is by our finacial package...Like always Vette makes me smile. Must be one of Vette life's "tools" that one kills me...hehehe

 

[dannyboy]

I allways used the "I work for UPS, not this guy" thought to get me through. And in 30 years, all of them have brought me much pleasure, some by coming and staying a while, and others by going.

d

 

[ups_vette]

logic:
Your name truly fits you. You have the logic of a child, thus your name,kidlogic. Most people, unlike you, grow and mature to become adults, and have the logic of an adult. Sadly for you, that day hasn't arrived, nor I expect, it ever will.
So, person with the logic of a kid, remaine in your childish world and enjoy Barney, Sponge Bob, and all your other little play friends. If you're good, Santa will bring you the Barbie Doll you want so badly, and you can play grown up, just like you try to do on this message board.

 

[deliver_man]

ups vette,
raising the level of the debate once again, I see. All this namecalling from someone who claims to be an adult, and questions the maturity of others. All I see is the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[dannyboy]

Aw come on Rudy. Attack the thoughts and post on the content, but to use personal attacks is a bit beneath you. Da kid is only saying things that many of the younger drivers say. And while you and I know things have changed for the better, and the job has gotten easier, the new guys dont know that. So judge him on his knowledge level and bear with him. He will turn out allright

d

 

[kidlogic]

I like when she calls me names!! It makes me know that even with my lack of maturity she couldnt muster the mental power to form a rebuttle. I know things are better. I come from the point that neither UPS or the Union is perfect and none of us should be defending either one from a point of perfection which is how Vette posts. I have been around for 17 years so I know how things were and how they are now. Now can still be better then it is. Vette your still making me smile more then ever!!!!!!

 

[proups]

Kid: 17 years ago was about the time UPS started teaching it's management people to be nice to their employees. I think it was called "People's Workshop."

You weren't around when it was really tough.

 

[kidlogic]

yeah I guess you walked to school barefoot up hill both ways too...

 

[dannyboy]

Ya know kid, while you have been around for a while, I just dont see any respect from you for those that paved the way for you to have the nicer things in life. I bet they never made you line up at attention while they "inspected" the "troops", or had to wear a tie? So while you gripe and complain about how tough you have it, understand, it was a LOT worse before you ever got out of diapers.

d

 

[dammor]

Can't we all just get along. ) Thought not...
Danny, you are correct. Don't expect many young ones to understand though. They are not fighting the same battles we did. This statement will of course insult those who's lives are much more difficult than our's were when we began our journey at UPS. Perhaps we have a generation gap sort of thing going on here. There 2 men working here in the evenings unloading, fueling, getting the lineup in place, and I'm sure doing much more than I am aware of, that impress me on a daily basis. They are young and have been working here for quite some time. They also have good attitudes. I look forward to the day they arrive where they want to be. Were I the manager and had permission,(from above of course where it would seem the big b head lives), I would put these two where they deserve to be. I guess the point I'm trying to make here is that some believe they deserve something just because they have been around for awhile. Not so.

 

[proups]

Kid: Absolutely.....in the rain and snow, too!

 

[kidlogic]

I have earned my way every step of the way.I and 16 other people where hired for Christmas help out of a group of 200. I then through my strong work ethic was chosen to stay on after Christmas as a call-in person out of the 17. The rest were let go. I stayed a call-in while attending college and having a second job to support myself. I then got to be full time part time then went on to driving after the bottom dropped out of the electronics field. As a driver I am close to scratch,3rd in driver leads,average about 2 follow-ups a year and never have complaints. I a few years back spent 4 months writting countless letters to UPS on my own time because no one believed me at the building and district level on how the diad had a billing problem with how it was being used and through my hard fought efforts I was giving a $500 dollar green check from UPS for saving the company MILLIONS of dollars. I was also called from the home office in Atlanta to be thanked personally. I am also a saftey co-chair. What Danny and Dammor forget to tell you is while they were inspected and had to wear a tie they made more money then we do now. The money made back then bought more then the money we make now.(cost of living wise). He doesnt tell you that the runs back then did half the work we all do now. He didnt tell you that those who put the 6 dollars a week for the thrift plan retired with closed to a 1 million dollar wind fall when the stock went public and we will never have that oppertunity. If I had choice to go back in time and become a UPSer 30 years prior I would in a heartbeat. So you took alittle more crap. Made more money,did less work, and have a huge finacial wind fall at the end of their careers....please... you earn respect with YOUR individual efforts and from where I am sitting working in the boom times of UPS and not showing how you as a person paved the way through something different then the next guy beside you did during your time doesnt gain you respect. On the other hand you could (you wont but people in my building do)look at what I have done and can say I did do something that will fore ever change the paved path of UPS. Actions talk...

(Message edited by Kidlogic on May 25, 2003)

 

[deliver_man]

Right on, Kid. Great post

 

[traveler]

kidlogic,
No problem with what you stated but for the (assumption) that we "did half the work we all do now". I don't know where you got that idea but it is just not true. I started as a driver in 1965 and did an industrial route with a P600 (one of the biggest vehicles back then). I went out full in the morning and came in filled with pickups at the end of the day. Most all the drivers worked as hard as I did, some harder and a some a bit less but the work sure wasn't easy.

I do remember passing the Railway Express guy at 10:00 AM each morning at a stop where he had coffee for a half hour each morning. He laughingly complained that he had twelve delivery stops that day, two more than usual. At the tender age of 21 I wondered even then how a company could stay in business while its drivers goofed off a good part of the day.

I really hope you don't believe UPS survived 96 years with drivers (the main stay of the company for most of those years) not putting in a fair days work.

 

[dammor]

Kid,
Sounds as if you are a stellar employee and I salute you in that respect. Just to set the record straight though,I started at UPS in 1980, never wore a tie, but did wear a headband to keep the sweat out of my eyes. We were in a building that had one belt running down the middle. It worked sometimes. Everything that came out of the trailers was picked up and pushed out on rollers. This building was a rented one and not build for UPS. The trucks didn't fit so the doors were always open. Snowball fights were the highlight at break time.
Yes, I know this sounds like sob story, but it is not. I guess my point would be that if you think for one minute you are working harder than we did and still are, you are mistaken. I'm still here working right beside you. I've loaded, unlaoded, and delivered every size truck in the fleet. I've wanted to quit 200 times and was glad I didn't 200 times. This is a job for those that have staying power. As far as the thrift plan. That's too damn funny Kid. Yes I was in it and yes I bought stock and continue to do so on a weekly basis. A millionare though? If that were the case I would be drinking margaritas on the beach somewhere. If there are those that achieved that goal though I am happy for them. As you should be.......Good luck.

 

[oldupsman]

Sorry about that chip on your shoulder kid. It must be very heavy.(1)I can assure you 23.87 an hour goes much further than 5.89 an hour despite what the cost of living is. (2)I always get a kick how you younger folks are convinced you work harder now than we did 20 years ago. I worked just as hard as you do now 20 years ago. I was also 20 years younger.The loads were just as tough then than they are now. (3) The thrift plan. Another one that makes me chuckle. I won't go into details just basics. I got in the thrift plan in 1976. Never touched it. Turned it all over into UPS stock at the 1st chance we had in 1996. Today it's worth approx. 200,000. That's a touch short of a million. You've been with UPS for quite a few years now so you must be a quality indiviual and hard worker. But you will never experience the daily verbal abuse that I used to recieve on a daily basis. You will never be threatened with the lost of your job on a daily basis. You never be told what a rotten employee you are on a daily basis. And you know what kid? I'm sincerely glad you won't. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. And that's what we older folks are talking about when we say the job was tougher years ago. Not the physical work,that has never changed and never will. But the daily mental abuse we were put through. Having experienced things then and things now there is just no comparsion. I work for a much better company now then I did 20 years ago. And I'm glad you do to.

 

[kidlogic]

So what your saying is the average UPS employee who started in the late 70's delivered the same amount of packages,stops per car,pickups per car and miles per car as we do now???? We didnt have the density to prove such a hypothesis. As for the conditions..we all did the same work as you have done. I can recall my pants freezing from the pockets down when we did the car wash so you are no different then the rest of us . In our center now we have to use rollers when the new box trucks come in so those thing you describe as harsh are what we have now. Tell us what your starting wage was compared to minimum wage. Our states mimimum wage is $6.15 . That means that today's starting pay is 1.3 times greater then minimum wage. what was yours. When part timers made the same as drivers probably when you started it was more like 3 or 4 times minimum wage. The original post was that I was answering was that I dont respect those who paved the way before me and had it alot harder. The drivers who were working when I was in diapers as someone put it did more miles per stop,handled less packages and made money per hour given the cost of living. They didnt have it HARDER then we have it now. Numbers talk. I have only worked at UPS 6 years less then you so its not like I have no reference to make such a claim.

 

[traveler]

kid,
You really don't know what you are talking about. Density? It depends on where you are. In 1965 I did 8 miles per day on my area, delivered about 90 stops per day with 300+ packages and had 27 pickup stops with about 300 to 350 pieces. The easy part of the day was the 11 miles to and from the area! I had four floor walk ups and freight elevators that ran like a snail. Sometimes I had a hand truck but when my car was in the shop, somehow the hand truck disappeared that day. I had one of the better package cars with only 65,000 miles on it. A replacement car was often a P400. The car had to be loaded in the cab with the first 10 stops. Those stops were retail (clothing stores) and their packages took up the whole right side of the cab, not just the tray. (Oops, bet you never saw a UPS car with a tray. The rest of the car was full from top to bottom, front to back. It was "section loaded" so you had to sort you own packages a section at a time (8 of them) as you delivered.
Now to the money... The minimum wage was $1.25 per hour. We made $3.35 per hour as drivers at full rate. That happened after 30 days, only one progression step. THERE WERE NO PART TIME EMPLOYEES AT ALL! The hub was full time as were the preloaders. There is no comparison to be made here. Full rate for drivers is now 4 plus times the minimum wage. Ours was a little over 2.5 times minimum wage!
Oh yes, we had to get a signature with a pen, on paper of all things. It was always a challenge in heavy rain or snow. If you weren't careful you came back with a bunch of crumpled mush for delivery records. There are just so many things that were different that comparisons are just not valid. Folks worked just as hard in the past as they do today. Don't believe anyone who tells you different.

 

[dammor]

Sorry, but I think you must just love to hear yourself whine.

 

[dannyboy]

Kid, dont get my post wrong. I said or meant nothing about your work ethic or your value to UPS as a great employee. But your take on economics past and present are really off base. What I made in the past compared to cost of living was less than what I make now compared to cost of living. I too started out at less than 2 bucks an hour. And yeah the cost of gas was only 45 cents. But gas is only three times that, and I make how much?????

As to not working as hard, ya know, there are routes right now that dont do nearly as much as I do each and every day. I take out a 1000 loaded 100%, all air in cab(more than 50 most days) and many days pull a TP60 that is loaded, and run 130-150 miles with 95-125 stops a day, with 12 pickups, three of which are customer counters(one UPS store). Compare that to the route that has 55 packages and runs 300 milesa day with 2 pickups. So we have both ends of the measuring stick right now in my center. But how does that compare with what I did in the past? About the same. But I have never delivered even close to the 450 stops that I did in the early 80's in one day. Not even close. So do me a favor, I wont do the diaper thing if you wont talk about things you know nothing about.

d Damn, It just dawned on me why you think we didnt work all that hard back then..........the heaviest package we could take at the time was only 50 pounds......Thats it isnt it? You still pissed off over that?

(Message edited by dannyboy on May 25, 2003)