UPS did not discriminate....sez jury....

[proups]

Kid: We all work hard. Over time, through technology, the job has become easier in some aspects, harder in others.

The post about mushy delivery records brought back some nightmares! Talk about a long check-in when that happened. Now a driver just slides the DIAD into a slot and goes home. Delivering with those things made for a slow walk up a driveway. No driver release either!

The package cars have improved as well. There are still million-milers out there, but they are becoming extinct.

The packages are heavier, but the carts we use make that easier too. I can remember pulling a cart up a set of stairs with the ability to only stack three boxes on it to a 40-50 package bulk stop.

You do work hard. We all do. It is good to hear that you are a safety co-chair. Make sure that everyone works safe. Until those committees came along, employees were allowed to take short-cuts that, looking back, could have got them hurt to the point of permanent disability (and sometimes did).

The post about density being the same is correct. SPORH has been the measure we all live by - it always has and always will be.

UPS management was a harder job in earlier times as well. A 50-60 driver center was usually run by a manager and two or three sups. No OMS, no PT Preload or Local Sort Sups, just them. Drivers routinely came in and helped with dispatch - not because they were forced to - just because they wanted a smooth day.

I think the point is that UPS has a rich legacy of hard working people that made it what it is today. People like you, who work hard, participate in sales lead programs, co-chair safety committees, and take the time to improve the business will continue to make UPS a great company. Keep it up - the old-timers really appreciate you!

 

[kidlogic]

Traveler your starting wage of $3.35 ajusted to todays value had the buying power of $19.45. Well above the starting wage we now have. While you where driving a p400 which in todays standard would be a gravy truck we have 1100 or in some cases furniture vans. The vehicle I drive now has 277,000 miles on it. I too delivered on paper so no case made there. The post I was answering was that the older guys had it harder.
Oldupsman wages ajusted to todays value would be $20.45

(Message edited by Kidlogic on May 31, 2003)

 

[ups_vette]

logic:
You're right kid. You are the most overworked, underpayed employee in the history of UPS. Noone has ever had to work as hard as you for so little money.
All of us had it so much easier than you. As a matter of fact, we old timers didn't even have to deliver if it was raining or snowing, or was too cold or too hot. We could stay in a diner the entire day and earn our big paychecks. Those were the days when working for UPS was a pleasure, not like today. I don't know how you put up with it everyday, having to actually work as hard as you do to earn your meager pay.
You are my hero.

 

[kidlogic]

Unlike you I like to prove my side of the debate with facts.I need not call you names or try and insult you. When someone says and I quote"1)I can assure you 23.87 an hour goes much further than 5.89 an hour despite what the cost of living is. " and when you do some research which no one seems to do .You find out they started out way ahead of what a new hire would be going through progression. Thats just the facts. I cant change them...they are what they are. As for work load. When some one says and I quote"I had one of the better package cars with only 65,000 miles on it. A replacement car was often a P400. The car had to be loaded in the cab with the first 10 stops. " and makes it sound like alot when everyone who now works at UPS know that if your in a p400 every day you have it made. Only the highest of senority drivers use p400 because why??? Easy work day.I never said that the older employees didnt work hard. But I resent the statement and I quote"So while you gripe and complain about how tough you have it, understand, it was a LOT worse " but show no facts why it was harder. I choose to explain my position which you can agree with or not. Its hard to think that a guy handles more packages in a smaller truck or that starting pay that is over $4 dollars more hour then what the driver new hires make ajusted for cost of living is less ,but that's the type of thinking we have here. That and if you dont agree what I say I am going to call you names. Which seems to be your approach. I am going to sink to your level and fire back on your level by saying" I Know you are but what am I.
Got that from my 5 year old daughter..As always you are making me smile

 

[traveler]

kid,
Once again, you didn't read carefully. The $3.35 was FULL RATE. As to the vehicles, a P400 was a great DISADVANTAGE when a P600 or one of the newer (at that time) P800 vehicles was warranted.

As to large vehicles, at times I had to make pickups in a 12 cager. The was a 37 (plus or minus) foot long monster that was designed to accept 12 cages that retail stores used to consolidate their delicate paper and string wrapped parcels. The thing drove much like a Sherman tank (yes, I once drove one of them too! so the comparison is valid). The air intake for the engine was INSIDE the cab and made a deafening whooshing sound, particularly on acceleration and deceleration. The steering wheel on some of these was one inch or less from the windshield. These were easily identified by the cut marks on the glass from drivers rings when they forgot that ones hand could not fit between the wheel and the windshield. I forgot a few times making a turn and painfully squeezed my fingers through rather than crash into another vehicle. The tail was chest high and the tailgate itself was solid steel, manually operated. This all worked reasonable well when you were at a loading dock but making curbside pickups was damn near impossible. There was no entry through the cabin at all. Peak season, I even delivered out of one of these monsters twice due to a lack of other vehicles.

Did we have it HARDER I don't know, but is sure wasn't easy.

 

[kidlogic]

I did read...you started out at $3.35 which was equal to $19.45 now. It would take a new hire which I am unsure about the progression about 1 year and a half to get to your level during his progression. During this time you would have also gotten a raise. In which you wouldnt be making the $19.45 but more. Even though the new hire would pass you on total wage . It would be many years down the road until the new hire would match you on total monies earned. Then depending on how close you were on the next contract you may have gotten another increase which would put you even further ahead. I equate work by total stops,pickups, total pieces, and average wieght of the packages. There is no way the "<font size="+1">AVERAGE" </font>worker during the time you started on average did the same as they do now. There are more business and more packages with less miles between stops. Once again...the point of my post was to show that things are as hard as they were back then and that I dont need to show any more respect to you old dudes then I do to the hard working driver that I see every day......Do you really think that our trucks arent packed with packages and we have all the space we want .....think about it....the only difference is that there are 300 large heavy packages vs what could fit in a little tiny p600.

(Message edited by Kidlogic on May 31, 2003)

 

[traveler]

Kidlogic is an appropriate name!

So you can C-A-R-E-friend-U-L-L-Y AND S-L-O-W-L-Y read what I posted I cut and will paste it H-E-R-E

"we made $3.35 per hour as drivers at full rate."

'Nuf said

 

[proups]

What started this argument,anyway?

I tried to intervene once by saying:
I think the point is that UPS has a rich legacy of hard working people that made it what it is today. People like you, who work hard, participate in sales lead programs, co-chair safety committees, and take the time to improve the business will continue to make UPS a great company. Keep it up - the old-timers really appreciate you!

Maybe we should all go enjoy this beautiful Sunday!

 

[ups_vette]

logic:
1. You gave the impression you had been with UPS for 17 years. If true, why are you still in the new hire progression pay rate? Are you that slow to learn?

2. Do you believe it's fair for a new hire to start by making the same hourly rate as a 30 year driver? Can you tell me of any other job where the new hires start at the top rate


3. You say you have done all this research pertaining to cost of living wages today vs the past. What resources have you used and can you verify the accuracy. Please provide your resources.

4 You state you use the same logic as your 5 year old daughter, is that where your name comes from....KIDlogic?. I now understand your thoughts and reasoning. Hopefully as your daughter grows older, your logic will grow as does hers.

 

[kidlogic]

1. I was comparing someone starting off in 2003 to someone starting off in 1965. In which the data shows the 1965 employee had a better start for at least 3 years.
2.I didnt comment one way or another. I wish we all got paid on personal worth to the company rather then everyone making the same on a schedule. Thats a bad structure but realize it is a mainstay in a union company. Traveler was just lucky that he was able to goto max pay so quickly.
3.Easily provided...
4. I said I got my very humorous quip from her. Its a reply she uses when she is arguing with her 7 year old sister. Your comment that I said I use her logic is yet upon a mountain of arguments made on emotion and not facts.
5. Proups my point was as you have reinforced that the good people who work at UPS now work just as hard as the good people who have retired. A comment was made that the retired employees had it alot harder and that we owe then something. I showed that we dont have it better then them. I really love Vette's post. They made me giggle this time. Not really but I was thinking about Vette's tool post again.....

(Message edited by Kidlogic on June 01, 2003)

 

[afups]

Bitch, moan, cry, insult, whine, prevaricate, complain, bitch, whine, moan, cry, insult, and then do it all over again. There has to come a time when we stop beating each other. This thread started when a jury found UPS innocent of racial discrimination in one of the centers. Look at where we are.

I suggest that a separate thread be set up titled "Let me tell you why I hate UPS".

After that is set up we need another one titled "Why I work for a company even though I hate the company, the management team and everyone else".

Come on, give it a rest.......

 

[kidlogic]

Afups who said anything about hating UPS??? I was stating that I work as hard as the old UPSers did.
Infact the last part of the thread if you read it has nothing to do with an opinion of UPS

(Message edited by Kidlogic on June 01, 2003)

 

[tieguy]

Your words you have spoken and the attitude you appear to show would lead many of us to believe that you do hate working at UPS even if you do a great job which it sounds like you do.

 

[kidlogic]

I love UPS. The problem is that here everyone defends all post that show a problem or flaw UPS as either Union complaining or UPS bashing. . Look at the ERI. You will see that there are problems but people here tend to look the other way. Have you ever notice that you hardly never hear here " Boy I have too much work or all my customers are jerks." No you dont. That trend alone shows some serious problems,but bring one up and the UPS is perfect mentality goes into effect. If I was a managment person I would want to hear them all because every problem precieved by the worker that is fixed is a step toward a better company. You ever hear here that the old timers had some good center managers and some bad. The ones who listen to the workers percieved problems are the good ones. The ones who dont and turn a blind eye are usually bad. I just wish that some people who post here would answer. Yeah we stink at that problem but here is why we dont or cant fix it. Instead of bring up the 1 in a hundred senario that on that rare occasion might make you wrong. Like traver. He may of had a ball buster of a run in a dense area, but he was the exception not the rule...sorta like that to give an example.

 

[afups]

Who sez?

5-10: "UPS isnt a racist company. It treats everyone like crap."

5-11: "management squeezes every ounce of work out of these guys to a point where they burn out."

My point is - there must be something to talk about that would be more constructive and interesting to talk about. Perhaps we could even discuss the price range of the UPS stock or what the company plans to do to ensure the financial future of all the employees - management and hourly, full time and part time.

Have a good day.

 

[dannyboy]

Kid

FIrst off you are comparing a driver that had topped out back then to a new hire now. Why not compare apples to apples instead of apples to pears to try and make a point.


as to the cost of living indexes, you can use them to prove many things, and disprove them also.

As to a P400 being something people would thing would be "a gravy truck", its obvious you have never had to drive a real 400. Or a Hon car either.

And as to us old timers not having it as hard as you do now, you wernt there, were you. So how do you know? I was there, I know.

Enjoy what you make. Work hard. Play harder. And take all the days off you can!

d