Watching Supervisors work

[sano]

What you are clearly missing is that key word; integrity. Yes, I realize as a management employee you may not have sniffed such a thing yet.

How is any employee with integrity and honesty going to directly lie to a customer telling them UPS is the best idea for shipping when they're paying 7$ to send a 1 pound package that is in a 4x4x4 box; when the post office is 2$?

Personally, I direct customers to use the most sensible shipping solution and often it isn't with UPS.

If you call this biting the hand that feeds, so be it. Unfortunately, we'll have to agree to disagree.[/quote]

Let me get this strait. You work at a UPS counter and tell people to ship with USPS? That's integrity? If I am paid to be the public face for a company and yet don't believe that company has the best to offer, isn't that a problem?
I admit I am coming to UPS from a small business background so I may not understand the union vs company dynamic, however, this doesnt feel right.
If the Ford salesperson in my town would recommend that I go down the road to Chevy because they get 2 mile per gallon better, I would think that Ford salesperson would lose his job.
Respectfully,

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

What you are clearly missing is that key word; integrity. Yes, I realize as a management employee you may not have sniffed such a thing yet.

How is any employee with integrity and honesty going to directly lie to a customer telling them UPS is the best idea for shipping when they're paying 7$ to send a 1 pound package that is in a 4x4x4 box; when the post office is 2$?

Personally, I direct customers to use the most sensible shipping solution and often it isn't with UPS.

If you call this biting the hand that feeds, so be it. Unfortunately, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Let me get this strait. You work at a UPS counter and tell people to ship with USPS? That's integrity? If I am paid to be the public face for a company and yet don't believe that company has the best to offer, isn't that a problem?
I admit I am coming to UPS from a small business background so I may not understand the union vs company dynamic, however, this doesnt feel right.
If the Ford salesperson in my town would recommend that I go down the road to Chevy because they get 2 mile per gallon better, I would think that Ford salesperson would lose his job.
Respectfully,[/QUOTE]

Pay me bonuses, commission, etc...and I'll gladly sell a customer anything for any price. otherwise, I am not in it to rip people off. I'll give it straight, like I or anyone else would appreciate as a customer. Sorry, not for modest hourly rate will I rip people off.

Plus, I don't tell anyone what to do. I advise customers options who ask me questions or issues. I do not tell anyone to goto the Post Office or UPS store etc.

 

[mathematics]

doesn't all this boil down to the fact that we [management] are salaried and want the work out as fast as possible, and the union are hourly and want the opposite? if the union employees were salaried, we would have a lot less problems.

 

[HazMatMan]

Someone (I won't name names) keeps mentioning how UPS pays for everything we got, lavish lifestyles, cars, etc, etc.. You act like we don't need to do anything for that to happen, we have to work like dogs to earn that money so ""UPS"" can buy us nice things..You make it sound like UPS is doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.. Isn't that what life is all about, we work for a company or some other employer and we get a paycheck?? By the way, I work for UPS and I don't enjoy a lavish lifestyle or drive a fancy car.

 

[HazMatMan]

doesn't all this boil down to the fact that we [management] are salaried and want the work out as fast as possible, and the union are hourly and want the opposite? if the union employees were salaried, we would have a lot less problems.

Hey that's a good idea, ok, i'll take twice what i'm making now but still want job security (and good benefits) and I will resign from the union effective immediately. You could keep the stock, i'm not greedy..Maybe in a few years i'll buy a caddy with the union dues I didn't pay..

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

Let me get this strait. You work at a UPS counter and tell people to ship with USPS? That's integrity? If I am paid to be the public face for a company and yet don't believe that company has the best to offer, isn't that a problem?
I admit I am coming to UPS from a small business background so I may not understand the union vs company dynamic, however, this doesnt feel right.
If the Ford salesperson in my town would recommend that I go down the road to Chevy because they get 2 mile per gallon better, I would think that Ford salesperson would lose his job.
Respectfully,

So you feel as though customer counter employees are car salesman? I am thinking your opening volley spoke the most. This isn't selling Buicks....it's selling shipping, and honestly, some people like UPS and some don't. I am a straight shooter; no punches...and it's not selling cars.

Sometimes the shoe fits and sometimes it doesn't. I don't sell a size 8 to a size 4, and I certainly think that repeat customers that we have wouldn't appreciate anyone who would do that.

Although Tieguy, in his egocentric world of "I am greater than thou as I am your manager" would disagree...

Respectfully,

 

[dilligaf]

Flawed logic. Why should we be hustling sales leads when UPS hikes rates 18% NDA and 6% ground (hovering base rates around $6.20 for ground!). Embarrasing ; I tell people to ship with USPS if the shoe fits; and believe me Tiegue, I don't work in the building or drive all day, I'm at a counter. Chasing customers out doesn't feel so bad when there are many better deals out there.

[.............................more volume equals more union jobs. ]

We can't get the company to fill the jobs that are needing to be filled right now. We have right now at least 2 FT drivers working preload and driving and they shouldn't be. It creates problems because those 2 drivers get work taken off of them everyday and that work is forced onto the other drivers in the same areas.

 

[705red]

Red, No I don't. I think much of the grievance activity is vindictive. If you have a grievance file it. Don't turn it into a search for the holy grail.

Other then that I question and comment on how someone is willing to make sacrifices for the union but not for the company that is paying for their lifestyle. The logic presented here supporting that point is rich in irony.

If you call supervisors doing the work instead of paying a union employee his guarantee or to avoid paying overtime, please explain how this is vindictive?

I walk the building looking for sups working because as a steward i have received complaints. Now if the sups wouldnt do the work guess what? I wouldnt get complaints on them. Even with the 72 hour notice that was sent out here in october they still dont get it. Dont do our work. If a supervisor is really talented enough and has half a brain he/she could run their area better by supervising, moving people around to balance the workloads, etc. But by working they ignore their duties of supervising their work areas and that always leads to missed packages service failures etc.

Now back on the sales lead topic, i for one turned in several leads in late january early feburary because they had taken work off of me and than i had time to look to grow the business. Now its right back to 10 and 11 hour days and again i dont have the room or time for more work, i can barely service the customers that i have now how can you expect me to turn in a sales lead?

Get these lazy bd reps out of the starbucks coffee shops and out on the streets were people ship and receive and have them grow the business! My job title is as a service provider not an account rep! Give me an 8 hour day and i help, give me a 10 hour day and i cant!

 

[IDoLessWorkThanMost]

agreed with 705red there. Good points.

 

[sano]

So you feel as though customer counter employees are car salesman? I am thinking your opening volley spoke the most. This isn't selling Buicks....it's selling shipping, and honestly, some people like UPS and some don't. I am a straight shooter; no punches...and it's not selling cars.

Sometimes the shoe fits and sometimes it doesn't. I don't sell a size 8 to a size 4, and I certainly think that repeat customers that we have wouldn't appreciate anyone who would do that.

Although Tieguy, in his egocentric world of "I am greater than thou as I am your manager" would disagree...

Respectfully,

No, I am not trying to say you are a car salesman. That was just the first example I thought of that could illustrate sending a customer to the competition. I am not trying to be critical, I am actually trying to understand how UPS works. Coming from a small business background we constantly asked ourselves, how can I make the company I work for more profitable? I think in a small business setting we look at the customer as our boss and the source of our paycheck, so the thought of sending a customer to the competition freaks me out. On the other hand, in a small business if I did not feel we were the best value (not price) for our customer, I had some power to influence the necessary changes to make our company the best value.
Respectfully,

 

[tieguy]

hey tie. there's a old saying "people buy what they want & beg for what they need. when members at my local have to wait more than 6 months to get paid for supervisors working. ?

What happened they spend the money before they got it? probably couldn't get your BA to show up and settle the grievances any sooner.

 

[tieguy]

If you call supervisors doing the work instead of paying a union employee his guarantee or to avoid paying overtime, please explain how this is vindictive?

LOL. Comon Red don't go naive on me. You and I know grievances have never been purely about following the contract.

Its always been about get you before you get me. Its always been about jamming the man. Getting back at the boss for whatever reason.

You have some great stewards that represent well. You also have many that are frustrated leaders. Vindictive plotting people who use the contract as a tool to get back at the boss. You know these types. You see these types all the time Red. Don't develop amnesia on me now.

Many of the respondents on these threads highlight exactly what I am talking about. They will give advice on one thread that bacially equate to getting back at the boss or to acting in a fashion meant to disrupt the bosses operation.

they will then come on this thread and act offended when I suggest they are playing such games.

They will cry because they think the company is taking money from the union but will never do anything to promote the company that actually pays their bills.

In fact Red if you read through the various posts on these threads you can see a consistent pattern of disloyalty. I don't know if its the union thing or what but most of the posters responding and defending the union here on this thread exhibit feelings of disloyalty towards the company. I hope its not something taught down at the hall?

 

[disneyworld]

I don't need to know you the answer is always the same.someone wants to start some crap about the boss stealing from the union. The boss runs a business that allows you and me the opportunity to buy the wife a nice house to live in and allows us to afford the kids a great lifestyle. the only claim to fame for the union is that they claim they got you a lifestyle that you would not have without them. there is some truth to that point. there is also some truth to the point that ups pays their nonunion people well, allows them to accrue beni's and paid time off sooner then the union and allows them a better retirement then most teamster union employees have.

Yet the typical union goon thinks his job is to boss the boss when he should be killing himself to get sales leads so that the golden goose keeps producing the lifestyle he and his family have become accustomed to.

So keep playing your union games and when you get done choking the golden goose then walk up to hoffa and ask him if he has enough in the coffers to pay your mortgage.

You guys hate to hear this but you need to. Ups is paying for your house, your vacations and your kids braces not the union.

This is about the only thing I hate about working here. The us vs them routine is old and tired but neither side wants to blink. We need to get a whole lot better at the give and take.

 

[tieguy]

The thing is Tieguy, I EARN every penny I get from UPS. UPS does not pay for my house, I had a house BEFORE I worked at UPS and will have one after I leave.

This is one of the interestings responses i sometimes see as part of the teamster mindset. In this case We are led to believe that tnk is somehow self sufficent and really does not need or rely on his ups job. He apparently employs at ups and works his but off for the exercise only.

This response is surprisingly a common one as part of the process where the teamster seperates him / herself from any possible feelings of loyalty to their employer.

Once the teamster has completely allowed himself to become totally disloyal to the company he then has no problem taking the role of virus invading the host. As that process takes place you then see the attacks on the company as one poster here did with his call to arms. Boss the boss and disrupt the business then become fairly common tactics.

UPSers who just want to do their jobs and go home are often chastised for not aiding in the attacks on the host. They are called suck ups and kiss buts until they finally give in. Union goons will work to destroy any feelings of loyalty they feel towards the company. They will tell the virus convert that the company does not care about them. The goon works to seperate the glue between loyal employee and company.

Thats why I asked Griff to tell me he loved his job or company. he can't do it. Thats why I asked him to have a call to arms for sales leads. He can't do it. His programming is complete and he no longer has any feelings of loyalty to his employer. In fact his programming is complete and he has started to attack the host. Feeding the host would be counter to his motives and intentions.

At some point as you folks make your transition you turn into the virus. The contract becomes an excuse to attack the host. Nothing more , nothing less.

 

[Jones]

Oh come on Tieguy,

Working for UPS has nothing to do with loyalty or loving the company. It's a job that pays a set hourly wage, no more and no less. UPS does not pay for anyone's house, family, or lifestyle, it pays hourly employees and management for performing a job. What they do with that money is up to them, because they worked hard for it and earned it, it's not a gift from the great benevolent company. I've currently got a pretty decent center team, my on-road sup and my center manager are both good guys and do a good job. Neither one of them love the company(they don't hate it either), they're just here for the money just like 99% of the rest of us.

I get the feeling you've got a got a shop steward who's really getting under your skin lately....

 

[Griff]

This is one of the interestings responses i sometimes see as part of the teamster mindset. In this case We are led to believe that tnk is somehow self sufficent and really does not need or rely on his ups job. He apparently employs at ups and works his but off for the exercise only.

This response is surprisingly a common one as part of the process where the teamster seperates him / herself from any possible feelings of loyalty to their employer.

Once the teamster has completely allowed himself to become totally disloyal to the company he then has no problem taking the role of virus invading the host. As that process takes place you then see the attacks on the company as one poster here did with his call to arms. Boss the boss and disrupt the business then become fairly common tactics.

UPSers who just want to do their jobs and go home are often chastised for not aiding in the attacks on the host. They are called suck ups and kiss buts until they finally give in. Union goons will work to destroy any feelings of loyalty they feel towards the company. They will tell the virus convert that the company does not care about them. The goon works to seperate the glue between loyal employee and company.

Thats why I asked Griff to tell me he loved his job or company. he can't do it. Thats why I asked him to have a call to arms for sales leads. He can't do it. His programming is complete and he no longer has any feelings of loyalty to his employer. In fact his programming is complete and he has started to attack the host. Feeding the host would be counter to his motives and intentions.

At some point as you folks make your transition you turn into the virus. The contract becomes an excuse to attack the host. Nothing more , nothing less.

If what you say is true, then how are you any different from me? Please explain that to me. What you're doing now is essentially the same thing you castigate me for doing but in reverse. Lets play the Tieguy game of distorting opinion as fact. Your hatred for the union and its employees is very transparent, as is your "true motives" -- union busting. Your programming is complete as well, just in the reverse, your infecting the host (teamster and teamster morale) with your virus. All of this is undisputed fact, reason being because I just said it and whatever I say goes. I have no interest in the truth, I already know the truth.

I'm not going to dance on your command. I won't post what I love, hate, enjoy at your request. I'm not your dog, even though thats probably comparable to the level of respect you show your employees. What does loving my job, loving my boss, loving UPS have to do with anything? We are employed under a contract, love it or leave it, it's in ink and it's legally binding. You're just trying to derail things as usual, redirect the spotlight, in other words -- business as usual. The fact of the matter is, the contract wouldn't be about getting back at the man, if the man would put his ego aside and stop violating it. It's all about getting the man back in your eyes, because you don't want to be held accountable for your actions. Admit it, you don't want workers to have recourse for the unjust -- you want a fascist dictatorship. You have no interest in doing what is fair, it's your way or the highway, you're the BOSS (as you've made clear thousands of times on this site and in your username). I have some news for you, you might think you're the boss, but you only play one on these forums.

P.S. -- I like how you continue to skew facts, statements, misquote me and in general assassinate my character. You should really think about getting a job on Foxnews. Can't get your way through truth and reason -- do it by slander.

 

[Steward773]

Go Griff it's your birthday....

 

[705red]

LOL. Comon Red don't go naive on me. You and I know grievances have never been purely about following the contract.

Absolutely! Its 100 percent about following the contract, can you give me a reason why you would say such a thing? If its not a contract violation then its not a grievance now is it?

Its always been about get you before you get me. Its always been about jamming the man. Getting back at the boss for whatever reason.

As a boss tie, do you follow the contract? Do you use progressive discipline? Do you 100% of the time follow and honor seniority? Or do you do what you want when you want like alot of others managers and supervisors do on a daily basis?

Now if the boss is doing evrything be the letter of the contract how can we gat back at him? If the boss is getting grievances filed on him then obviously hes violating at will and deserves the bossing the boss you speak of.

You have some great stewards that represent well. You also have many that are frustrated leaders. Vindictive plotting people who use the contract as a tool to get back at the boss. You know these types. You see these types all the time Red. Don't develop amnesia on me now.

Tie if your steward is reading you the riot act lately im sure you have done something wrong and until you can admit that you screwed up to him and apoligize and sign off on the grievances you should get bossed!

Many of the respondents on these threads highlight exactly what I am talking about. They will give advice on one thread that bacially equate to getting back at the boss or to acting in a fashion meant to disrupt the bosses operation.

they will then come on this thread and act offended when I suggest they are playing such games.

They will cry because they think the company is taking money from the union but will never do anything to promote the company that actually pays their bills.

You want us to promote this company? Are you kidding me? You want us to put our reputation as service providers to our customers on the line and promise them the world. When the fact is that we the drivers are burnt out trying to service them as it is, and we cannot attempt to do more work. Maybe when the people that believe they run this company can get their heards out of the backside and see that we the people of this company have grown tired of 10, 11 and 12 hours days. Everyday is like xmas minus the helpers and all you do is preach grow the business turn in sales leads, well i say give me an 8 hour day everyday or slowly the business will go else where and its not the drivers fault. But you will blame us because everything is the drivers fault, never the center manager, bd rep, ie guy, or the big shots in atlanta, wake up tie.

In fact Red if you read through the various posts on these threads you can see a consistent pattern of disloyalty. I don't know if its the union thing or what but most of the posters responding and defending the union here on this thread exhibit feelings of disloyalty towards the company. I hope its not something taught down at the hall?

Tie if this company wasnt so half a** backwards the union would almost be extinct. You yelp and complain about the union but do you know how and why the most of us care for the teamsters. Its because of the way you managers and others have treated us, or someone close to us. We get our rights trampled almost on a daily basis and because we stand up fpr ourselves were bad teamsters. I have seen a 25 year safe driver get fired for getting into his first accident, i have seen a 27 year driver who has been medically disqualified from driving but can work inside get railroaded and left to sit at home while we fight over clear contract language. I myself have been fired twice and disqualified from feeder because i stand up to the boss for anyone in my building, whats right is right and whats wrong is wrong, but when you get into high enough management they must give you a stupid pill because none of you can decifer either.

Keep up the great work ups management, you are helping to rebuild teamster strength throughout all the ups's. thank you from one strong ups teamster!

 

[local804]

This is one of the interestings responses i sometimes see as part of the teamster mindset. In this case We are led to believe that tnk is somehow self sufficent and really does not need or rely on his ups job. He apparently employs at ups and works his but off for the exercise only.

This response is surprisingly a common one as part of the process where the teamster seperates him / herself from any possible feelings of loyalty to their employer.

Once the teamster has completely allowed himself to become totally disloyal to the company he then has no problem taking the role of virus invading the host. As that process takes place you then see the attacks on the company as one poster here did with his call to arms. Boss the boss and disrupt the business then become fairly common tactics.

UPSers who just want to do their jobs and go home are often chastised for not aiding in the attacks on the host. They are called suck ups and kiss buts until they finally give in. Union goons will work to destroy any feelings of loyalty they feel towards the company. They will tell the virus convert that the company does not care about them. The goon works to seperate the glue between loyal employee and company.

Thats why I asked Griff to tell me he loved his job or company. he can't do it. Thats why I asked him to have a call to arms for sales leads. He can't do it. His programming is complete and he no longer has any feelings of loyalty to his employer. In fact his programming is complete and he has started to attack the host. Feeding the host would be counter to his motives and intentions.

At some point as you folks make your transition you turn into the virus. The contract becomes an excuse to attack the host. Nothing more , nothing less.

You have to do a little better than this Tie, come on!

 

[tieguy]

If what you say is true, then how are you any different from me? Please explain that to me. What you're doing now is essentially the same thing you castigate me for doing but in reverse.

I suppose that is possible griff. However the company in this case is the source of the funds I use to take care of my family. thus the loyalty probably should be placed towards helping this source of my funds succeed so that I also continue to draw that paycheck.

Lets play the Tieguy game of distorting opinion as fact. Your hatred for the union and its employees is very transparent, as is your "true motives" -- union busting. Your programming is complete as well, just in the reverse, your infecting the host (teamster and teamster morale) with your virus. All of this is undisputed fact, reason being because I just said it and whatever I say goes. I have no interest in the truth, I already know the truth.

Not a hatred just an honest commentary on the mindset you employ. you show a lot of loyalty towards the union and I have yet to see you say that you feel any loyalty towards the company. Lets look at this realistically. If the company folds you have no income. If the union folds you still draw a paycheck. thus why shouldn't the company at least have equal footing in your eyes?

.