What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplement

[packageguy]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

I have til I was blue in the face. No one listens. Then they bitch about the situation they are helping to cause. Like I said, I have bitched. We have one lady who comes in at 7:45 to help for free on preload. She won't listen. Mangers won't stop her. Now what?

If you have more time then her I would grieve it everyday.

 

[thebrownspot]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

It's one thing to take work off of you when you're route is heavy, quite another, when they take a spilt off you, then give you a split off another driver or two. which they have repeatly done to me. I mentioned this to a union rep. He said, we're working on language for the next contract, to limit the percentage that they can actually move, and/or change the so called 40% they're allowed now. this is in north Illinois local 705. So you need to talk to a least a steward if not a business agent, to make sure they're aware of this situation. to start the language process, or you guys are going to get screwed like you did with tell-on-me-matics. we can't be fired for any electronic surviellents. they have to get their big fat butts out there and observe you.

thebrownspot.com/

 

[menotyou]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

If you have more time then her I would grieve it everyday.

I would if I could.

 

[Integrity]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

This is specifically adressed in every supplement. All YOU have to do is follow and enforce YOUR contract. YOU are the Union.

grgrcr88,

This is not true. One person in a union is a union member not the Union.

If the local union officials(including shop stewards) will not lead the way in handling union issues and working conditions then the members will be a reflection of this weak position.

Sincerely,

I

 

[grgrcr88]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

I have til I was blue in the face. No one listens. Then they bitch about the situation they are helping to cause. Like I said, I have bitched. We have one lady who comes in at 7:45 to help for free on preload. She won't listen. Mangers won't stop her. Now what?

Grieve for the time she works. both for the preloader she is displacing and for her own pay or for you. The contract clearly states no one will be allowed to work without being compensated. Enough money paid out will stop it.

 

[grgrcr88]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

grgrcr88,

This is not true. One person in a union is a union member not the Union.

If the local union officials(including shop stewards) will not lead the way in handling union issues and working conditions then the members will be a reflection of this weak position.

Sincerely,

I

It most certainly is true, The Union is only as strong as the members. It makes no difference what the stewards do if no one stands beside him.

 

[alwaysoverallowed]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

in regards to the o.p. I am in the metro philly supplement and I too have been laid off on monday's because my route was cut. I was told I could bump a cover driver with less seniority, take it unpaid, take it as an optional, or come in for local sort at driver rate(but only if there was no junior covers, ie all cover drivers had more seniority). I have taken two as optional but when the third came I said I would bump a junior and if I had no knowledge of the area it was on them; all of the sudden there was movement to make a route out of my cut work, only worked half of my bid route then helped out others with a poor dispatch to make a 9 hr day. My advice is to start doing routes you don't know. In our center Mgt can't hassle you for time over because you have no knowledge and if you keep running over 9.5 on the routes you have no knowledge they'll put your route in and make a split to run an actual with someone who's a runner and gunner. Bad from a union stand point because of the runner and gunner but good for you because you get too keep on working. In these times we have to look out for ourselves because the union isn't.

 

[Integrity]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

It most certainly is true, The Union is only as strong as the members. It makes no difference what the stewards do if no one stands beside him.

grgrcr88,

I did not say no one should stand beside the stewards.

Someone definitely needs to support the stewards.

This is apparently where we differ.

You say it is the members.

I disagree.

I say it is the Local Union Officials who must lead the way and support the stewards.

They are voted in to lead and they are also well paid to lead.

Sincerely,
I

 

[cachsux]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

we can't be fired for any electronic surveillances. they have to get their big fat butts out there and observe you.

We are SUPPOSED to not be able to be fired based on electronic surveillances. But believe me they have used it and it has stuck. It will also only be a matter of time before the GPS in our new electronics will come into play. They won`t have to get you on what the system shows them. They will get you when your story dosen`t match what the system shows them (dishonesty).

 

[brownman15]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

It's one thing to take work off of you when you're route is heavy, quite another, when they take a spilt off you, then give you a split off another driver or two. which they have repeatly done to me. I mentioned this to a union rep. He said, we're working on language for the next contract, to limit the percentage that they can actually move, and/or change the so called 40% they're allowed now. this is in north Illinois local 705. So you need to talk to a least a steward if not a business agent, to make sure they're aware of this situation. to start the language process, or you guys are going to get screwed like you did with tell-on-me-matics. we can't be fired for any electronic surviellents. they have to get their big fat butts out there and observe you.

thebrownspot.com/

welcome to the browncafe fellow 705 brother

 

[The Other Side]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

We are SUPPOSED to not be able to be fired based on electronic surveillances. But believe me they have used it and it has stuck. It will also only be a matter of time before the GPS in our new electronics will come into play. They won`t have to get you on what the system shows them. They will get you when your story dosen`t match what the system shows them (dishonesty).

CASH,

where have you been since 2008?? Where did you read or come to understand the following statement? ("We are SUPPOSED to not be able to be fired based on electronic surveillances")

This language does NOT exist in our contract , rider, supplement or ANY addendums.


You wrote: "It will also only be a matter of time before the GPS in our new electronics will come into play."

Again, how do you come to this understanding? Article 6 of the national master agreeement clearly allows the use of GPS for discipline up and including discharge on first offenses if the company can prove an employee intended on defrauding the company. If you are on edd/pas and telematics, you are in the crosshairs with GPS. All you have to do is sheet packages on the wrong streets (like next day airs) and you are DOOMED.

Dishonesty is the correct understanding. GPS & telematics makes it alot easier for the company to prove dishonesty. A "lie" by the employee will be the nail in the coffin.

Read article 6 if you have Telematics in your area, and come to a full understanding of its meaning and intentions.

Peace.

 

[jalnar]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

I have til I was blue in the face. No one listens. Then they bitch about the situation they are helping to cause. Like I said, I have bitched. We have one lady who comes in at 7:45 to help for free on preload. She won't listen. Mangers won't stop her. Now what?

watch what mgmt does if she has an injury while not on the clock

 

[grgrcr88]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

in regards to the o.p. I am in the metro philly supplement and I too have been laid off on monday's because my route was cut. I was told I could bump a cover driver with less seniority, take it unpaid, take it as an optional, or come in for local sort at driver rate(but only if there was no junior covers, ie all cover drivers had more seniority). I have taken two as optional but when the third came I said I would bump a junior and if I had no knowledge of the area it was on them; all of the sudden there was movement to make a route out of my cut work, only worked half of my bid route then helped out others with a poor dispatch to make a 9 hr day. My advice is to start doing routes you don't know. In our center Mgt can't hassle you for time over because you have no knowledge and if you keep running over 9.5 on the routes you have no knowledge they'll put your route in and make a split to run an actual with someone who's a runner and gunner. Bad from a union stand point because of the runner and gunner but good for you because you get too keep on working. In these times we have to look out for ourselves because the union isn't.

Two questions,you state the Union is not looking out for you. 1)Where did the language come from that gives you the right to work if your route is eliminated for a day(or forever)? I would bet it is in the contract, right. Did you negotiate that contract? 2) What are you talking about "Bad from the Union standpoint because of the runner and gunner"? Are you insinuating that the Union prefers a runner? If that is your take you could not be more wrong. The more members there are in any Union the stronger that Union will be, therefore the premise that the "faster the better" is a complete contradiction to strengthen the Union. We much prefer someone that FOLLOWS ALL THE METHODS. WORKS AT A BRISK PACE, TAKES FULL LUNCH AND BREAK, NEVER WORKS OFF THE CLOCK, AND NEVER TAKES SHORTCUTS TO BENEFIT THEMSELVES!!

 

[grgrcr88]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

grgrcr88,

I did not say no one should stand beside the stewards.

Someone definitely needs to support the stewards.

This is apparently where we differ.

You say it is the members.

I disagree.

I say it is the Local Union Officials who must lead the way and support the stewards.

They are voted in to lead and they are also well paid to lead.

Sincerely,
I

I think we only differ in semantics. I do agree that the leadership must stand up for the members and fight for whats right. I am simply stating that a few standing up does not have the same effect as the masses joining together to be heard(with the leadership)!!

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

I think we only differ in semantics. I do agree that the leadership must stand up for the members and fight for whats right. I am simply stating that a few standing up does not have the same effect as the masses joining together to be heard(with the leadership)!!

It's amazing the difference between here and there. our local basically prohibits masses joining together and being heard, I've heard that from the top. They only want a select few involved in the dirty work and the rest hush-hush.

 

[Integrity]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

Two questions,you state the Union is not looking out for you. 1)Where did the language come from that gives you the right to work if your route is eliminated for a day(or forever)? I would bet it is in the contract, right. Did you negotiate that contract? 2) What are you talking about "Bad from the Union standpoint because of the runner and gunner"? Are you insinuating that the Union prefers a runner? If that is your take you could not be more wrong. The more members there are in any Union the stronger that Union will be, therefore the premise that the "faster the better" is a complete contradiction to strengthen the Union. We much prefer someone that FOLLOWS ALL THE METHODS. WORKS AT A BRISK PACE, TAKES FULL LUNCH AND BREAK, NEVER WORKS OFF THE CLOCK, AND NEVER TAKES SHORTCUTS TO BENEFIT THEMSELVES!!

I think we only differ in semantics. I do agree that the leadership must stand up for the members and fight for whats right. I am simply stating that a few standing up does not have the same effect as the masses joining together to be heard(with the leadership)!!

grgrcr88,

I agree with you, I think we do agree in principle.

I respect and appreciate your contributions to the discussions on this site.

I think local union officials need to find a way to inspire the membership to concerted action and workplace conduct. For the benefit of all.

I think regular bullhorn rallies in employee parking lots prior to start time are needed.

The officials need to shout out reminders of union like conduct like you have mentioned in your post:

FOLLOW ALL THE METHODS. WORK AT A BRISK PACE, TAKE FULL LUNCH AND BREAK, NEVER WORK OFF THE CLOCK, AND NEVER TAKE SHORTCUTS TO BENEFIT YOURSELVES REPORT ALL INJURIES REGARDLESS OF THE SEVERITY

Local Union officials should recognize that the company already has the demoralized mob mentality working against the unions.

It is about time that local union officials start using collective thought and action.

I believe rallies like this would increase the inspiration, motivation, and morale of the members.

I believe this would create a positive, effective mob mentality.

I believe this would result the improvement of working conditions and protection of the working men and women under their care.

Sincerely,
I

 

[cachsux]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

CASH,

where have you been since 2008??
Driving the big boy trucks at UPS, thank you.

Where did you read or come to understand the following statement? ("We are SUPPOSED to not be able to be fired based on electronic surveillances")

This language does NOT exist in our contract , rider, supplement or ANY addendums.

In our contract, 705, video surveillance was not supposed to be submersible. I.e. ,the cameras on our building.


You wrote: "It will also only be a matter of time before the GPS in our new electronics will come into play."

Again, how do you come to this understanding? Article 6 of the national master agreeement clearly allows the use of GPS for discipline up and including discharge on first offenses if the company can prove an employee intended on defrauding the company. If you are on edd/pas and telematics, you are in the crosshairs with GPS. All you have to do is sheet packages on the wrong streets (like next day airs) and you are DOOMED.

Dishonesty is the correct understanding. GPS & telematics makes it alot easier for the company to prove dishonesty. A "lie" by the employee will be the nail in the coffin.

Read article 6 if you have Telematics in your area, and come to a full understanding of its meaning and intentions.

Peace.

My statement is based off the fact that we now have new HD cameras at our facility that have already been used for discipline and warnings. We also have been swapped over to the new Motorola IVIS which has GPS,Bluetooth,WLAN, microphone and speaker communication capability (to listen in,perhaps?). Basically it does everything but drive the truck.

They will not get guys for sitting around,that would require progressive discipline. They will get guys for denying they sat around when they have undeniable proof that you were, as you mentioned, dishonesty.

I can`t relate to what you package guys have been going through with Telematics, I was discussing the new technology in feeder.

 

[menotyou]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

Package is horrible, too. At least, where I am.

 

[brownmonster]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

First thing first.

If you showed up on time on monday morning for the week, you are Automatically guaranteed 40 hours for the week. It does not matter if they cut your route on tues, wed, thurs,fri, they must still guarantee you 8 hours on the day the route is cut from dispatch. YOU must ask for that 8 hours or you will be considered "RED CIRCLED" or agreed to forfeit your guarantee.

NEVER ever accept the day off when they call. The company MUST provide a 24 hour notice when changing your start time (in the contract).

Your local rider should provide exact language for elimination of routes although, it may not be addressed. Remember, PAS and EDD did not exist during the last negotiations and most riders dont have ANTICIPATORY language in the "delivery area" sections of the riders.

The NATIONAL agreement does not address the unintended consequences of edd/pas dispatching and this is something that has to be addressed in 2013 negotiations.

EDD/PAS is so different than the standard dispatching that we have been used to. In the past, splits were pulled and could only go 1 or 2 cars to the right or left. Today, an entire truck can be pulled and split to 4 different pens, making it easier for the company to eliminate routes.

By a simple push of a button, work can be diverted to several different cars on different pens. All drivers must INSIST on 8 hours when their routes are cut, and although its easier to take the day off, we must hold the company to our guarantees or the process will continue to get out of hand.

In our rider, we are allowed to follow the "major portion of the original delivery area" when routes are cut. This is something that we negotiated into our rider in 1997. As a Driver myself, while an executive officer and a business agent, we created ANTICIPATORY language that addresses this process while the national ignored our complaints.

hall and the negotiating committee must take this issue seriously this time around, and create national language that provides protections for route drivers and a process that covers every aspect of route cuts from what happens to a displaced driver to what happens to the driver bumped. Seniority issues will arise is some cases and this is something that causes the most difficulty.

With EDD/PASS, there are delivery loops. Usually 5 cars tagged A, B, C, D, E.....

The B car is called BASELINE and all other cars in the loop are considered split cars. In the new process, a loop is given a number designation, like 67, so the routes would be known as 67a,67b,67c,67d,67e.

When cutting routes, work is reassigned to cars in the loop. So, lets say 67a was eliminated and its the senior driver in the center (30 years) , what should happen to him? Should he become the newest utility driver? Is that fair? How productive would he be doing something else in a completely different town or delivery area where he has no area knowledge?

In the new UPS system, work is only to be "cut" to cars in the loop, however, lately, UPS has been cutting work to other loops and this causes bigger problems.

On a daily basis, we need new language to address this change in operations.

Seniority shall prevail in every aspect of the daily operation and its confirmed in our national master agreement.

So, if the company "cuts" out a route on a single day or days, then in a delivery loop, the affected driver shall be allowed to follow the major portion of the original delivery area.

In the loop, 67a was cut and the work spread like this:

25% of 67a sent to 67c
25% of 67a sent to 67d
29% of 67a sent to 67e
21% of 67a sent to 67b

The affected driver would follow his work to 67b and that driver bumped, however, what if 67b was senior to the 67a driver?

In this case, the language should be be, "if one or more cars in a delivery loop are affected by area change after an elimination of a car for a day, the delivery loop shall be rebid for the day by loop seniority (5 drivers in the loop only) and lowest seniority driver moved to utility."

Protecting seniority is always a priority and although it seems complicated, it would help to prevent the company from doing this with any frequency.

In some cases, routes are cut to "punish" drivers that are not liked. We have made it tougher for them to do it, but its still being done.

Our contract isnt perfect, but it could be if addressed properly in 2013.

At the end of the day, YOU must ask for your guarantee when they call you no matter what and DO NOT take the day off.

Peace.

We have had PAS/EDD in our building since March of 2006. Someone must have forgot to tell Hoffa and Hall.

 

[steward71]

Re: What are my options when management starts cutting my route? Atlantic supplemen

onehandsolo,
You are under the same one as me, the Atlantice. I did talk to one of the driver stewards today who has been a steward for 21 years. He stated to me that I was right to post you have two 1. Bump the lower senior or 2. Come inside and work 8 hours. We have three drivers now that have been doing this for close to 2 months now. One told me today he has been working mid-night and preload now on Thursdays into Fridays morning. Good Luck.