What is happening in Syria. Regime fallen?

[catstalking]

Backed by Israel? It was Islamists that threw out Assad.

Yes, now stop and think about the implications of that and how it completely obliterates the world view you've been sold

 

[oldngray]

Yes, now stop and think about the implications of that and how it completely obliterates the world view you've been sold

 

[vantexan]

Yes, now stop and think about the implications of that and how it completely obliterates the world view you've been sold

Israel signed the Abraham Accords with four Arab nations. Would have had more but 2020 happened and Biden made no attempt to hold more peace talks. Assad was a proxy for Iran which is the enemy of other Arab States, especially Saudi Arabia. So the old paradigm that all the Arabs are united in destroying Israel is no longer the case. Assad himself was being propped up by Iran and Russia, and since his dictatorship was so brutal there are numerous rebel factions in Syria, some enemies of each other, working to depose him. They succeeded.

 

[catstalking]

So the old paradigm that all the Arabs are united in destroying Israel is no longer the case.

It was actually never the case, not even going back to 1947 was there ever such unity, it's always been a split field

The point is Islamic countries have always been fine with Judaism, Jews have traditionally preferred majority Islamic rule over any other minorities who they view as far more threatening long term

Assad himself was being propped up by Iran and Russia, and since his dictatorship was so brutal there are numerous rebel factions in Syria, some enemies of each other, working to depose him. They succeeded.

Yes that's obvious but not the point

 

[Doublestandards]

Israel signed the Abraham Accords with four Arab nations. Would have had more but 2020 happened and Biden made no attempt to hold more peace talks. Assad was a proxy for Iran which is the enemy of other Arab States, especially Saudi Arabia. So the old paradigm that all the Arabs are united in destroying Israel is no longer the case. Assad himself was being propped up by Iran and Russia, and since his dictatorship was so brutal there are numerous rebel factions in Syria, some enemies of each other, working to depose him. They succeeded.

What do you think the reasoning for the Middle East being such crap is? I’m about halfway through the video on Africa you recommended, which is fascinating, I’m wondering if there’s some parallels to the Geography issue?, but on the other hand obviously some parts do pretty well in terms of oil and stuff and have plenty of money

I’ve read that it’s hard to “control” because they don’t view any sense of loyalty in terms of country but rather small sections within the countries

They were obviously smart people at one point, with their advancements in math long ago, and looking at pictures of some places as recent as the 70s it almost looks like America, with the women dressing normal and being educated

I’ve read there is a big problem with inbreeding, I don’t know how true that is or how much of a cause it is?

What caused them to move so far back so quickly?

 

[rod]

View attachment 504442

All 5' 4" of him. Tom Cruize is another sawed off "superman".

 

[Over70irregs]

All 5' 4" of him. Tom Cruize is another sawed off "superman".

Lol. Ha!

 

[vantexan]

It was actually never the case, not even going back to 1947 was there ever such unity, it's always been a split field

The point is Islamic countries have always been fine with Judaism, Jews have traditionally preferred majority Islamic rule over any other minorities who they view as far more threatening long term

Yes that's obvious but not the point

I think the two wars that Israel fought with.multiple Arab countries would contradict your point of view. Anwar Sadat and the Egyptian leadership paid a terrible price for making peace with Israel. Most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. There are factions throughout the Middle East that hate Israel and the U.S. with a passion. Doesn't mean that they're all in lockstep working towards our destruction. But I wouldn't want to be a moderate Muslim openly speaking out against the extremists there.

 

[vantexan]

What do you think the reasoning for the Middle East being such crap is? I’m about halfway through the video on Africa you recommended, which is fascinating, I’m wondering if there’s some parallels to the Geography issue?, but on the other hand obviously some parts do pretty well in terms of oil and stuff and have plenty of money

I’ve read that it’s hard to “control” because they don’t view any sense of loyalty in terms of country but rather small sections within the countries

They were obviously smart people at one point, with their advancements in math long ago, and looking at pictures of some places as recent as the 70s it almost looks like America, with the women dressing normal and being educated

I’ve read there is a big problem with inbreeding, I don’t know how true that is or how much of a cause it is?

What caused them to move so far back so quickly?

Seems to me that there's a multiple tiered system there. The royalty and those they favor who are educated(think the extremely wealthy bin Laden family) are very capable people. The average Arab not so much. A lot of it might involve everything revolving around observing their religious tenets all day every day. Were some of the pics you saw from pre Revolution Iran? They're Persians, and I think it's a matter of time before they throw off the mullah leadership and have a more open society.

 

[Doublestandards]

Seems to me that there's a multiple tiered system there. The royalty and those they favor who are educated(think the extremely wealthy bin Laden family) are very capable people. The average Arab not so much.

That’s really interesting, because I’ve read about Kim Jong Un being sent to Switzerland for his education, and bin Laden was very educated as well as you said. Of course they don’t do the same for their own people though

A lot of it might involve everything revolving around observing their religious tenets all day every day. Were some of the pics you saw from pre Revolution Iran? They're Persians, and I think it's a matter of time before they throw off the mullah leadership and have a more open society.

Yes it was pre revolution Iran. And that’s interesting that you think the Persians are close to becoming an open society. Is there a particular reason they have a better chance of it than others in the region? I remember reading in the news not too long ago about protests about the hijabs and stuff it seemed like they were making progress but I haven’t heard much since

This is one of the pictures I saw of pre revolution Iran

And this is an old family photo I saw of bin Laden. Just crazy to see…

 

[vantexan]

That’s really interesting, because I’ve read about Kim Jong Un being sent to Switzerland for his education, and bin Laden was very educated as well as you said. Of course they don’t do the same for their own people though

Yes it was pre revolution Iran. And that’s interesting that you think the Persians are close to becoming an open society. Is there a particular reason they have a better chance of it than others in the region? I remember reading in the news not too long ago about protests about the hijabs and stuff it seemed like they were making progress but I haven’t heard much since

View attachment 504530
This is one of the pictures I saw of pre revolution Iran View attachment 504531
And this is an old family photo I saw of bin Laden. Just crazy to see…

There are a lot of Iranians who don't want the restrictive life that the Islamic extremists want. And they don't want a nuclear exchange with Israel. The extremists got the upper hand in 1979 but nothing lasts forever.

 

[Johney]

Glad my son got out of there.

 

[MyTripisCut]

That’s really interesting, because I’ve read about Kim Jong Un being sent to Switzerland for his education, and bin Laden was very educated as well as you said. Of course they don’t do the same for their own people though

Yes it was pre revolution Iran. And that’s interesting that you think the Persians are close to becoming an open society. Is there a particular reason they have a better chance of it than others in the region? I remember reading in the news not too long ago about protests about the hijabs and stuff it seemed like they were making progress but I haven’t heard much since

View attachment 504530
This is one of the pictures I saw of pre revolution Iran View attachment 504531
And this is an old family photo I saw of bin Laden. Just crazy to see…

I mean, both photos are fake AF? Anyone?

 

[vantexan]

I mean, both photos are fake AF? Anyone?

The top one was typical of life under the Shah for moderate Iranians. The bottom one was likely taken of the bin Laden family in either Europe or the U.S. When 9/11 happened the Bush administration got bin Laden family members out of the country for their safety. They weren't the fanatics Osama was. A very rich family who made their money in construction in the Middle East.

 

[Over70irregs]

I think the two wars that Israel fought with.multiple Arab countries would contradict your point of view. Anwar Sadat and the Egyptian leadership paid a terrible price for making peace with Israel. Most of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudis. There are factions throughout the Middle East that hate Israel and the U.S. with a passion. Doesn't mean that they're all in lockstep working towards our destruction. But I wouldn't want to be a moderate Muslim openly speaking out against the extremists there.

Israel being used as a hand in Syria. More land grab.

 

[Doublestandards]

I mean, both photos are fake AF? Anyone?

The 54 of Us (Published 2008)

The children of Muhammad bin Laden, from the desert to the jet set to the cave.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Thebrownblob]

The 54 of Us (Published 2008)

The children of Muhammad bin Laden, from the desert to the jet set to the cave.

www.nytimes.com

We have a friend of the family who was a relative of the Shaw of Iran, who had to flee the country during the revolution. She says Iran was an amazing place before the revolution. Very westernized. She still owns land, but cannot even go back.

 

[newfie]

Obama actually wanted to stay out of Syria altogether, it was Hillary Clinton and John Kerry who convinced him to go in and after the Libyan fiasco he started to ignore their advice altogether

Still a lot of blood on his hands, but it's helpful to know whose idea it was first

you could argue that he was the president and ultimate decider at the time.

 

[newfie]

And the cycle repeats….

which leads to:

unfortunately. when i served my country i knew i could die in a faraway land but i don't see anything there worth fighting for.

which leads to what the hell are you responding to ?

Come on home soldier….. its over…. (First Blood)

 

[newfie]

It was actually never the case, not even going back to 1947 was there ever such unity, it's always been a split field

some of those early wars were pretty unified

Table​

Conflicts considered as wars by the Israeli Ministry of Defense (as they were named by Israel) are marked in bold.[3]

Israeli Prime Minister	Defense Minister of Israel	Chief of Staff of the IDF	IDF forces	Civilians
Conflict	Combatant 1	Combatant 2	Results	Israeli commanders	Israeli losses
War of Independence (1947–1949)	Israel	Egypt Iraq Transjordan Syria Lebanon https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/friend/f4/Flag_of_Saudi_Arabia_%281938_to_1973%29.svg/22px-Flag_of_Saudi_Arabia_%281938_to_1973%29.svg.png Saudi Arabia Kingdom of Yemen Holy War Army ALA	Victory Arab League invasion of former Mandatory Palestine repelled. Armistice Agreements; Israel captured 50% of area allotted to Arab state.	David Ben-Gurion	Yaakov Dori	4,074[4]	~2,000[4]
Sinai War (1956)	Israel United Kingdom France	Egypt	Victory Sinai demilitarized, UNEF deployed.	Moshe Dayan	231	None
Six-Day War (1967)	Israel	Egypt Syria Jordan Iraq	Victory Israel captured the Gaza Strip, Sinai, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights.	Levi Eshkol	Moshe Dayan	Yitzhak Rabin	776–983	20