Anonymous 10
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Local 407 endorses the Hoffa slate
who are you going to vote for and why
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ups clerk
Well-Known Member
Then don't come bitching to your shop steward or business agent if things go south if Hoffa gets re-elected.
ups clerk
Well-Known Member
I would demand a recount if I were Sandy Pope.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
huh...I already bitch about them, they're Hoffa cronies just like our locals President. Nothing I, you or anyone else can do or say is going to change the tide.
Voting because Pope or Gregare is different than Hoffa is equally as irresponsible. Neither of them are qualified to run the Teamsters and neither have any kind of track record. Look at Sandys Pension fund, it's like 15% funded compared to 2000.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
Exactly.
UnconTROLLed
perfection
Hoffa will get 55-65%, Sandy maybe 25-30% Gregare 10-15% That is my best guess.
"Change the tide"?? What tide?? The only "tide" I perceive out there is a movement against incumbents-at all levels and every institution. Whether it is politics or local union elections, incumbents are being thrown out. Sometimes for rational reasons and sometimes for irrational reasons. Americans in general are hurting and are taking it out on those in power. When members get their ballots they will see a very familiar name on that ballot: HOFFA. They will immediately vote against that name and choose between Pope, with a built in infrastructure that Carey, TDU and Tom L built up over 20 years, and former Hoffa lackey Gegare, whose only base is Hoffa's base.
On being qualified to run the Teamsters, what qualification did Junior have to run anything in 1998?? He wasnt even a working Teamster. He was a little man with a big famous name. Tell me did he ever "bring back the power!!"?? He and many members unfortunately thought a Hoffa restoration would scare corporate America into buckling under. LOL, we know the record here. I guess the big Hoffa name just didnt have to juice anymore. Junior knows it, I bet even Gegare knows it now but went along for the ride at the members expense.
Is Sandy qualified to run this once great union?? Yes, she has been around some terrific union brothers and sisters over the years like Ron Carey and Tom L. Remember she has been a Teamster since 1978. She has been on the front lines lately fighting the fight to organize the unorganized. She is not the type that sits in her office and smokes cigars. She is out there in the field holding rallies, talking to members , bargaining good contracts, holding seminars, teachiing labor law, helping other locals bargain their contracts, organizing shops, and pushing back against Corporate America. While Junior is out there giving speeches on what is to be done, Sandy is out there taking action, getting her hands dirty fighting the good fight!!
I will vote for Fred. Why-- I contacted his web site about a week ago and with in 3 days the contacted me and wanted to answer any questions i may have, He asked where i was from and i told him, he said well i'll be one county over i can meet you face to face. Well i had over slept and missed his phone call to set up a meeting place. He said not a problem and gave my name to another person who would meet me.
I find this very impressive that they will meet one person not a whole group if needed. And by the way they do return phone calls at 4am.
Sandy pope has not returned my e-mail in 3 months or a phone call
I find this very impressive that they will meet one person not a whole group if needed. And by the way they do return phone calls at 4am.
Sandy pope has not returned my e-mail in 3 months or a phone call
Guess Fred has a lot of free time on his hands. Sandy's campaign has been very good with getting back to people who contact the campaign. But then again Sandy is travelling the country visiting hubs and barns and meeting the membership. If you are basing your vote on who calls you back, it doesnt seem too thought out to me.
Everything Sandy Pope says is what I want to hear. If she will follow through or not, we'll see. I am willing to take that chance because the current establishment isn't doing much of anything to help us or any of the other companies affected. JMHO. Sandy Pope gets my vote for sure.
804,
you guys in the east really dont get it. TDU isnt something that is valued across this country. Ron Carey was an
and was forced out. He is history. Tom L has been a perpetual loser ever since his campaign started way back.TDU in California stands for one thing; TOO DUMB TO UNDERSTAND.
Sandy Pope may be a nice lady, but she is in NO WAY qualified to hold the office of general president. While Hoffa and crew may not have done the best job handling UPS issues since the ratification of the last contract, that really falls back on "US" for ratifying it in the first place.
The economy is in a mess, and changing horses in the middle of a mess with someone who doesnt have an EBOARD ready to go from the jump, speaks volumes about her leadership. POPE should have spent the last year building an EBOARD using the top people in the country. Instead, she offers the membership (US) a last minute round of appointments, and those appointments could haunt us in the next contract negotiations.
If the best association Sandy Pope can offer is Tom L or Ron Carey, that isnt something that in california that means anything. While I have my own disagreements with Hoffa and his administration, I in NO WAY would vote for Sandy Pope as General President.
I have spent 21 years as a teamster and 6 as an executive officer of my local, but I in NO WAY would endorse Sandy Pope. I have had many meetings with Tom L (over the years) who has visited me here in southern California and I would not endorse him either.
He and I disagree mainly on the personnel he hangs around with, and the same can be said for POPE.
I find that you all in the east enjoy the drama of causing trouble with each other and if your local is any example of what kind of people Sandy Pope would bring to DC, then everyone should be afraid, ..afraid of losing their careers.
Peace.
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Or Pope or Gegare either.
packageguy
Well-Known Member
Not sure yet.
804,
you guys in the east really dont get it. TDU isnt something that is valued across this country. Ron Carey was an
TDU in California stands for one thing; TOO DUMB TO UNDERSTAND.
Sandy Pope may be a nice lady, but she is in NO WAY qualified to hold the office of general president. While Hoffa and crew may not have done the best job handling UPS issues since the ratification of the last contract, that really falls back on "US" for ratifying it in the first place.
The economy is in a mess, and changing horses in the middle of a mess with someone who doesnt have an EBOARD ready to go from the jump, speaks volumes about her leadership. POPE should have spent the last year building an EBOARD using the top people in the country. Instead, she offers the membership (US) a last minute round of appointments, and those appointments could haunt us in the next contract negotiations.
If the best association Sandy Pope can offer is Tom L or Ron Carey, that isnt something that in california that means anything. While I have my own disagreements with Hoffa and his administration, I in NO WAY would vote for Sandy Pope as General President.
I have spent 21 years as a teamster and 6 as an executive officer of my local, but I in NO WAY would endorse Sandy Pope. I have had many meetings with Tom L (over the years) who has visited me here in southern California and I would not endorse him either.
He and I disagree mainly on the personnel he hangs around with, and the same can be said for POPE.
I find that you all in the east enjoy the drama of causing trouble with each other and if your local is any example of what kind of people Sandy Pope would bring to DC, then everyone should be afraid, ..afraid of losing their careers.
Peace.
It is not about TDU, it is solely about HOFFA and Hoffa's inability to lead this union in the right direction. When the UPS brass is bragging on UPSers.com how great the relationship is between the union then you know you have a problem a serious problem especially with the lack of contract protection that has been allowed by the union and please do not give me the economy nonsense with UPS and their record profits. Sandy's position on this eboard complaint is that Hoffa eboard does want Hoffa tells them to do. Hoffa's eboard is a functional group when given the opportunity to be functional so thus Hoffa is the problem from her view point and keeping his eboard would not be a problem and it makes sense simply because of the experience some of the Hoffa supporters keep throwing out there. Ron Carey has done alot for me and alot of UPS teamsters out here for example the 22.3 jobs, two feeder drivers being hired from the part time pool instead of individuals off the streets that did not work at all at UPS. Carey made some mistakes but for the most part has done the overall union a great service. Lets not discount Carey's work.
There are many things to understand first before making a decision. From the jump, lets forget about tossing out Ron Careys name or Tom L. Ron cost this union its reputation when he left in disgrace, You call them mistakes, i call it criminal.
Lets dipense with Carey and his followers. He was ousted from the Teamsters for a kickback scheme that involved hundreds of thousands of dollars. Carey lied about the scam and he was forced out of the Teamsters as he should have been. The TDU or teamsters for a democratic union knew of this scam and continued to support Carey and his administration. Since then, TDU hasnt been taken seriously and Tom L who was around at the time of the Carey scam took the lead.
Leedham, became a perpetual loser in the general elections and a new face had to be found to take his place. Enter Sandy Pope. With Leedham behind her, its no surprise that TDU is trying to take control once again through the back door and THAT AINT HAPPENING.
The last thing "We" as UPS teamsters need is for TDU to take control of this Union.
As for contract enforcement, first, you have to blame YOURSELF if you voted to ratify this last contract, along with everyone else who ratified it. The contract committees created the language we have now, hall did fail in some respect, but the LOCALS approved it and sent it to the membership for ratification.
Sandy Pope has NO IDEA what problems we are facing at UPS. Just because she stood in front of a couple of yards and listened to people bitching doesnt make her qualified. Package division needs alot of help, part time needs alot of help, 22.3 needs alot of help, feeder needs alot of help, package diversion needs to be addressed, technology and understanding every element of that technology is going to be key in next years contract talks.
Sandy Pope doesnt have the first clue about our technology. Committees are being formed now, to bring in the best people with the most extensive experience with technology. This is something Sandy Pope cannot learn on the fly.
As for the company boasting about its relationship with the union, well, you should be thanking your lucky stars instead of trying to read into that something sinister. In this economy, a good working relationship between UPS and the Teamsters will get us a ratified contract in 2013 without going on strike.
Sandy Pope seems to be a nice lady, but hardly the kind of person who needs to be placed in charge of the UPS/Teamster contract.
Representation begins at the local level, not the national level. Stewards, agents and then executive officers. What do you want, Hoffa representing you in a 9.5 meeting with your center manager?
If your local representation is not doing the job, then vote them out. If your local cant stand up to the eboard of the International, then vote them out. You said that Sandy Popes claim is that the eboard is under Hoffas control and "thus" he must be removed.
This is ridiculous. You are then saying that replacing Hoffa with Pope would change all our circumstances. YOUR WRONG. Everything at the executive level happens with a vote. If the seven member Eboard votes 6 to 1 against Sandy Pope on everything she proposes, how does that help you???
Her one (1) vote means nothing in that scenario, and the eboard could continue to do business as usual even with her sitting in the room.
This next contract will be critical to us all given the scope of the economy. If by February the economy goes into another recession, contract talks will require the most experienced negotiators in the country and Sandy Pope isnt on that list.
The membership isnt stupid, and they know that their futures are at stake. Changing the General President only, will not effect the change in leadership that you appear to be seeking. IF Sandy Pope was to be taken serious, she would have assembled an EBOARD and ran as a slate instead of by herself.
This shows her lack of leadership and ability to mobilize other leaders. What it does demonstrate is that she is willing to do what she is told by the people who are trying to place her in office.
Hoffa/Hall 2012- "they aint the best, but it could be worse"
Peace.
Other Side, several times you call Sandy Pope "a nice lady". Listen Sandy Pope is a 33 year Teamster who used to drive a tractor trailer in a male dominated job!! How dare you disrepect her with your condescending nonsense. A matter of fact she is a black belt and would probably kick your ass!! You have every right to criticize her strategy,etc but she is more qualified than Junior was in 1998. As for the attack on Ron Carey, you couldnt shine Ron Carey's shoes. The man took on UPS and "part time America" when no one else had the balls. He put a scare in Corporate America and they went after him. I dont know if you read newspapers out west but Carey was acquitted of all the bogus charges!!
804,
NO disrespect intended. Sandy Pope may be a black belt, and she may drive a truck in a mans world, but that doesnt qualify her to be general president. Whether or not she could kick my ass hardly makes a case or a vote.
She is a nice lady, but it does not make for a reason to vote for her. I am criticizing her strategy, because my future is at stake. If she was a true leader, she would have assembled a slate of officers to run as a team and allow us to view her judgement, but she chose to run by herself and leave the rest of us in the dark, until she appoints Tom L to something in the future.
Thats a risk the membership cannot take.
I am well aware of brother Careys career and performance, but i am also aware of the crimes that were committed before his expulsion. Whether or not the charges stuck does not erase the expulsion from the Teamsters. Before "WE" give brother Carey any credit for the UPS strike, youd better thank the 335 thousand brothers and sisters who walked the picket line for 50 bucks a week and thank THEM first.
At the end of the day, brother Careys contract with UPS was a failure for part time as the jobs promised to be created never materialized and had to be renegotiated in 2002. I have PERSONALLY dealt with brother Carey in our contract of 1992 as i sat on two committees then, and again in 1997, sitting on the article 37 and article 18 committees. Brother Carey made some serious criminal mistakes that cost him his reputation and his career. Brother Carey (RIP) will always be remembered but its time to let his legacy go.
This is a different world, and TDU isnt the way to go.
UPS has become more aggressive with its employees in the everyday operation of the business, and its going to take people who are well versed on the everyday operation and changes and Sandy Pope isnt going to figure all that out in a couple of months in a few meetings.
Her truck driving experience may make her a tough person, but sitting in the cab of a tractor and sitting across the desk from UPS are two different worlds.
As I said many times, I have my disagreements with brother Hoffa and K. Hall, but at the end of the day, these guys will bring the best forward to negotiate our next contract. Out west, the support for brother Hoffa is unbeatable. Sandy Pope doesnt have a chance in the west. In order to win the GP, you must carry the west. Its a simple fact.
Would I like Brother Hoffa and Hall to do a better job? Absolutely, without a doubt. I think "they" are getting the message.
Sandy Pope may be a local favorite, but this time around, its just not in the cards. Next time, maybe she will put an entire slate together and show her cards, rather than hide them in her purse.
Its those "hidden" cards that disqualify her.
Peace brother.
Thank you for enlightening the Other Side on the fact that Carey was acquitted. And by the way Other Side, I voted no on the ratification of the contract so let us stick to the facts. I must point out this "sinister" quote of yours when management is cosy with the union that is beyond a working relationship because management is not cosy with employees. Employees are work as instructed by the management but to have a check and balance by the employees is the whole reason for the grievance procedure especially when the production harrassment is at an all time high. Other side to quote,"be thankful you have a contract ratified in 2013 instead of a strike" really. If that is the weak minded nonsense that is taught out in California then I hope you guys have a second job because without the threat of a strike a union has no LEVERAGE. Obviously you did not read my thread in entirety because I definitely was not going to hear anything about companies and this economy. Companies across the board are making huge profits but refuse to put the money back into the economy by creating jobs. Tax breaks, over working their employees, and etc have produced record profits not only for UPS but many other fortune 500 companies. Without a strong union presence then this antics will continue. Wake up a smell the coffee instead of drinking Hoffa's unsweetened Cool aid. By the way, half of Hoffa's eboard has either abandoned Hoffa or ran against him like Fred Gegare so it is hard to say that Sandy could not get along with Hoffa's eboard when Hoffa's own eboard does not get along with him.
This is the kind of talk i expect after showtime replays the movie "hoffa" on reruns.
I find it difficult to understand some of what you say because you dont provide paragraphs to separate thoughts and they seem to run together, but I'll try to address you.
First, this whole "fist waving" approach to unionism is silly at UPS. Weve only had 1 work stoppage in 100 years. Why would we shake our fists at them now? We make a good living at UPS with the current contract in hand, if you work by the rules, for the most part, your job is safe.
I am not sure you understand the grievance process however. The "grievance" isnt a check and balance tool, its a complaint when an employed has become aggrieved by an action by the company. We had a guy here in my division who submitted 165 grievances in 60 days. He went on to get himself fired for workplace violence by bumping another employee. He too, thought the grievance was a check and balance tool and he was checked and balanced right out of a career at UPS. He lost his case in arbitration and those 165 checks and balances went with him.
Production "harrassment" is a whole other animal. Our current contract does NOT provide any language to stop the practice. This is something that has to be addressed in 2012 negotiations. Article 37 language is vague and does not provide a proper remedy. You have to remember, that article 37 language when it was written did not include the incorporation of UPS TECHNOLOGY ( diad, gps, eddd, pas, sparks, trace) These were all things that UPS created after the contract was ratified.
The unions hands are tied to an extent until NEW language that either protects, eliminates or safeguards the employees is written and ratified. When you say production harrassment is at an all time high, that is silly, because its never been a problem before, and as each month passes under this current contract, production issues will rise expodentially. So, in effect, every month will be a new all time high. It doesnt make it that much more important than the day before.
Its a problem, the locals know it, the international knows it and as i said, committees are being formed and meetings conducted already to address these concerns for 2012.
Our leverage comes from our employees and our dedication to our job security and performance. If you think for one second, that UPS would respect you more if you stood at the gate with your fist in the air, then your nuts.
We can agree that UPS has made huge profits over the last 10 years and especially during the Obama administrations time in office, and thats good. If you think they only way to negotiate a good contract is by threatening to strike, then you dont understand the relationship between UPS and the Teamsters.
Believe me, the company knows all to well that we would strike if pushed, and thats the last thing on their minds. They want a ratified contract just as much as we do. The details are whats at stake.
They are going to want more flexibility on production standards in writing, and the Union will NOT agree to that. They are going to want disciplinary action for production included in article 37 of the NMA and that aint going to happen.
What I understand you to say is that "tough talk" convinces you that UPS will bow down to the Teamsters, and that my friend aint happening either. Its going to take sound discussions, proper planning, well explained ideas and the ability to look "down the road" to what potentially is coming towards us at UPS.
If you think waving your fist in the air is going to get UPS to reveal what it has instore for us in 5 years, then you are just silly.
Thats going to take "insight" from those of us on the front lines, and not some "nice lady" who stands at the gate handing out flyers.
As for Brother Carey, like I said, I am well aware of his case, and the disposition of the charges, but I am also aware of his expulsion. You cant ignore the fact that he was KICKED out of the Teamsters.
There are alot of things you are naive on when it comes to the business of Union business, but I appreciate your involvement in finding out. An executive board may change from time to time, this happens in the union business. It happens at the local level and the national level.
There is nothing to gain from this change. Peoples ideals change, and those at the top will always want to go higher. its the nature of an elected position.
As for our current contract, if you voted NO, then you did the right thing. I voted NO as well. I felt several issues were not addressed and said so on this board many times. I felt the committees dropped the ball on article 6 of the NMA and placed us all in jeopardy. Unfortunately, not enough people wanted to listen, but today, they want to complain about production harrassment.
They cant have it both ways.
Peace.
