Why is the Left...

R

refineryworker05

Well-Known Member
vantexan said:
Nope and nope. Nope. You want to say that my view of liberals isn't accurate then spout off about conservatives. Check the blue States that went red. County by county. See how many that voted for Obama went with Trump. Almost unanimous. These are staunchly Democrat, pro union areas. Sure there were plenty there who voted Democrat. But you don't win those counties with the Republican vote, they're way in the minority. And as I already pointed out, what do you expect the Republican Congress to do? Seriously do you think they're going to turn their backs on him? They have an agenda that Obama would never sign off on but Trump will. They need him. You are terribly naive if you think they'll denounce Trump and take some moral high ground. Trump got into office appealing to people who feel disenfranchised. And some of that was appealing to fears and prejudices. But much of what you know is based on the MSM's agenda to characterize him in the absolute worst way possible to help Hillary win. If you think the media was fair and impartial you're kidding yourself. Which makes Trump's win that much more remarkable in the face of that onslaught. Which has continued even more intensely after the win. Now that Comey's testimony seems to have made the Russian angle fizzle, they seem to be focusing on Trump's mental fitness. He's brought a lot of this on himself. He should stop the ridiculous tweets. But I suspect if Ronald Reagan had won in this partisan environment things wouldn't be much different. Reagan shut them up with results and humor. Will Trump?
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You really have not responded to any point I've made. Look, I said the whole left vs right paradigm is bs because conservatives/republicans voters don't actually care at all about policy. They don't care about Trump's many left positions. So conservative/republican opposition to the left is not about policy and is about who. As in do they believe this person is one of them or not? Do they believe this person hates the same groups of Americans they hate? This is what matters to conservative/republican voters not policy.

That's why Trump can text oh the House bill on health care is mean which means make the health care bill more left and republicans/conservatives voters don't object to that characterization because Trump is one of them in their minds.

That is the point I have repeatedly made.

My other point is that elected conservatives/republicans don't care about 90% of the stuff they claim to deeply care about and that's why they supported Trump, a man that lays out to all that they don't actually have an ideology or set of beliefs that any voters actually care about.

The only thing that elected conservatives care about deeply is their plutocratic economic policies of income and corporate tax cuts, writing regulations to benefit certain business interests, and increased military spending and that's it. The rest of their agenda is a mirage that they don't care about.

That's my other main point.

You keep responding with well the Democrats or liberals suck or the media sucks, but that has nothing to do with my point that opposition to the left is not rooted in policy because republican/conservative voters don't actually care about policy, and elected conservatives and republicans only care about their plutocratic economic policies and the rest of their bs is just a mirage.

None of that stuff has anything to do with Comey either.
 
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R

refineryworker05

Well-Known Member
newfie said:
more sour grapes snowflake rhetoric.

executive branch
congress
governorships
state legislatures.

thus populist uprising.
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Lol, is that an actual argument or did you just want to say snowflake?

The comment was about Trump being a populist.

He doesn't have a populist message he has an exclusionary message and he received only 46% of the vote. Again, when John McCain was beaten bigly by President Obama he received 45.5% of the vote.

How can something be populist and have 54% of voters go against it?

Certainly, the conservative/republican message has absolutely nothing to do with populism.
 
BakerMayfield2018

BakerMayfield2018

Fight the power.
refineryworker05 said:
You really have not responded to any point I've made. Look, I said the who left vs right paradigm is bs because conservatives/republicans voters don't actually care at all about policy. They don't care about Trump's many left positions. So conservative/republican opposition to the left is not about policy and is about who. As in do they believe this person is one of them or not? Do they believe these person hates the same groups of Americans they hate? This is what matters to conservative/republican voters not policy.

That's why Trump can text oh the House bill on health care is mean which Jean make it more left and republicans/conservatives voters don't object to that characterization because Trump is one of them in their minds.

That's is the point I have repeatedly made.

My other point is that elected conservatives/republicans don't care about 90% of the stuff they claim to deeply care about and that's why they supported Trump, a man that lays out that they don't actually have an ideology or set of beliefs that any voters actually care about.

The only thing that elected conservatives care about deeply is their plutocratic economic policies of income and corporate tax cuts, writing regulations to benefit certain business interests, and increased military spending and that's it. The rest of their agenda is a mirage that they don't care about.

That's my other main point.

You keep responding with well the Democrats or liberals suck or the media sucks, but that has nothing to do with my point that opposition to the left is not rooted in policy because republican/conservative voters don't actually care about policy, and elected conservatives and republicans only care about their plutocratic economic policies and the rest of their bs is just a mirage.

None of that stuff has anything to do with Comey either.
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Your paragraph structure is mind blowing
 
V

vantexan

Well-Known Member
refineryworker05 said:
You really have not responded to any point I've made. Look, I said the whole left vs right paradigm is bs because conservatives/republicans voters don't actually care at all about policy. They don't care about Trump's many left positions. So conservative/republican opposition to the left is not about policy and is about who. As in do they believe this person is one of them or not? Do they believe this person hates the same groups of Americans they hate? This is what matters to conservative/republican voters not policy.

That's why Trump can text oh the House bill on health care is mean which means make the health care bill more left and republicans/conservatives voters don't object to that characterization because Trump is one of them in their minds.

That is the point I have repeatedly made.

My other point is that elected conservatives/republicans don't care about 90% of the stuff they claim to deeply care about and that's why they supported Trump, a man that lays out to all that they don't actually have an ideology or set of beliefs that any voters actually care about.

The only thing that elected conservatives care about deeply is their plutocratic economic policies of income and corporate tax cuts, writing regulations to benefit certain business interests, and increased military spending and that's it. The rest of their agenda is a mirage that they don't care about.

That's my other main point.

You keep responding with well the Democrats or liberals suck or the media sucks, but that has nothing to do with my point that opposition to the left is not rooted in policy because republican/conservative voters don't actually care about policy, and elected conservatives and republicans only care about their plutocratic economic policies and the rest of their bs is just a mirage.

None of that stuff has anything to do with Comey either.
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No, you just want to paint Republicans as monolithic, only in it for the money. Otherwise they'd reject Trump if they had any principles. As if Democrats don't care about money, are all altruistic Boy Scouts. Highly principled. Baloney. They all want the money, it's just a matter of approach. Democrats tell their constituents how much they care, while nothing ever really gets done that truly improves their lives. But the money keeps flowing in the form of entitlements, and their dependents um constituents keep the votes coming in return. And various enablers help themselves to a little off the top. The Republicans make their money making things as smooth as possible for their constituents in the business world. And they get generous support for doing so. The Dems whine and nag that money would be better spent on their constituents and the Republicans whine and nag that money should be kept in the hands of those who earned it, even though much of what is earned is concentrated into relatively few hands. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was. But true believers like you seem to think that your side is pure and holy while the other side is a criminal enterprise. So tell me, if the Democrats are pure as the driven snow then why did they support a candidate who became mega rich as Secretary of State and covered her tracks with the aid of the previous administration? You seem concerned about Trump's tax returns(which legally he does not have to release, that's a tradition not a law), but aren't you equally concerned that she acid washed her server to prevent the reading of 33,000 emails? It was admitted by Comey already that she mishandled classified emails, some at the highest classification possible, out of the ones she did release. Where is the prosecution? There are people in prison right now who's infraction was miniscule compared to the scope of her's. Yet total silence from the Democrats and they voted in even bigger numbers for her, just not enough where it mattered. So when anyone charges the Republicans are corrupt and turns a blind eye to Democrat corruption how are they to be taken seriously? So why do I support Republicans? Because building dependency in exchange for votes does not insure a strong country. I really don't care that some get super rich building a business as long as they are providing solid jobs and aren't killing people doing it. But the whole keep the money flowing to the poor and to the government unions in exchange for them keeping me in office business just increases the debt without building a middle class. And the debt is close to collapsing the whole thing. Then where will we be? Can hardly wait for the derailment and red X's.
 
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BakerMayfield2018

BakerMayfield2018

Fight the power.
vantexan said:
No, you just want to paint Republicans as monolithic, only in it for the money. Otherwise they'd reject Trump if they had any principles. As if Democrats don't care about money, are all altruistic Boy Scouts. Highly principled. Baloney. They all want the money, it's just a matter of approach. Democrats tell their constituents how much they care, while nothing ever really gets done that truly improves their lives. But the money keeps flowing in the form of entitlements, and their dependents um constituents keep the votes coming in return. And various enablers help themselves to a little off the top. The Republicans make their money making things as smooth as possible for their constituents in the business world. And they get generous support for doing so. The Dems whine and nag that money would be better spent on their constituents and the Republicans whine and nag that money should be kept in the hands of those who earned it, even though much of what is earned is concentrated into relatively few hands. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was. But true believers like you seem to think that your side is pure and holy while the other side is a criminal enterprise. So tell me, if the Democrats are pure as the driven snow then why did they support a candidate who became mega rich as Secretary of State and covered her tracks with the aid of the previous administration? You seem concerned about Trump's tax returns(which legally he does not have to release, that's a tradition not a law), but aren't you equally concerned that she acid washed her server to prevent the reading of 33,000 emails? It was admitted by Comey already that she mishandled classified emails, some at the highest classification possible, out of the ones she did release. Where is the prosecution? There are people in prison right now who's infraction was miniscule compared to the scope of her's. Yet total silence from the Democrats and they voted in even bigger numbers for her, just not enough where it mattered. So when anyone charges the Republicans are a corrupt and turns a blind eye to Democrat corruption how are they to be taken seriously? So why do I support Republicans? Because building dependency in exchange for votes does not insure a strong country. I really don't care that some get super rich building a business as long as they are providing solid jobs and aren't killing people doing it. But the whole keep the money flowing to the poor and to the government unions in exchange for them keeping me in office business just increases the debt without building a middle class. And the debt is close to collapsing the whole thing. Then where will we be. Can hardly wait for the derailment and red X's.
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Paragraphs are your friend.....
 
DriveInDriveOut

DriveInDriveOut

Inordinately Right
vantexan said:
No, you just want to paint Republicans as monolithic, only in it for the money. Otherwise they'd reject Trump if they had any principles. As if Democrats don't care about money, are all altruistic Boy Scouts. Highly principled. Baloney. They all want the money, it's just a matter of approach. Democrats tell their constituents how much they care, while nothing ever really gets done that truly improves their lives. But the money keeps flowing in the form of entitlements, and their dependents um constituents keep the votes coming in return. And various enablers help themselves to a little off the top. The Republicans make their money making things as smooth as possible for their constituents in the business world. And they get generous support for doing so. The Dems whine and nag that money would be better spent on their constituents and the Republicans whine and nag that money should be kept in the hands of those who earned it, even though much of what is earned is concentrated into relatively few hands. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was. But true believers like you seem to think that your side is pure and holy while the other side is a criminal enterprise. So tell me, if the Democrats are pure as the driven snow then why did they support a candidate who became mega rich as Secretary of State and covered her tracks with the aid of the previous administration? You seem concerned about Trump's tax returns(which legally he does not have to release, that's a tradition not a law), but aren't you equally concerned that she acid washed her server to prevent the reading of 33,000 emails? It was admitted by Comey already that she mishandled classified emails, some at the highest classification possible, out of the ones she did release. Where is the prosecution? There are people in prison right now who's infraction was miniscule compared to the scope of her's. Yet total silence from the Democrats and they voted in even bigger numbers for her, just not enough where it mattered. So when anyone charges the Republicans are a corrupt and turns a blind eye to Democrat corruption how are they to be taken seriously? So why do I support Republicans? Because building dependency in exchange for votes does not insure a strong country. I really don't care that some get super rich building a business as long as they are providing solid jobs and aren't killing people doing it. But the whole keep the money flowing to the poor and to the government unions in exchange for them keeping me in office business just increases the debt without building a middle class. And the debt is close to collapsing the whole thing. Then where will we be? Can hardly wait for the derailment and red X's.
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Tldr
 
It will be fine

It will be fine

Well-Known Member
vantexan said:
No, you just want to paint Republicans as monolithic, only in it for the money. Otherwise they'd reject Trump if they had any principles. As if Democrats don't care about money, are all altruistic Boy Scouts. Highly principled. Baloney. They all want the money, it's just a matter of approach. Democrats tell their constituents how much they care, while nothing ever really gets done that truly improves their lives. But the money keeps flowing in the form of entitlements, and their dependents um constituents keep the votes coming in return. And various enablers help themselves to a little off the top. The Republicans make their money making things as smooth as possible for their constituents in the business world. And they get generous support for doing so. The Dems whine and nag that money would be better spent on their constituents and the Republicans whine and nag that money should be kept in the hands of those who earned it, even though much of what is earned is concentrated into relatively few hands. Same as it ever was, same as it ever was. But true believers like you seem to think that your side is pure and holy while the other side is a criminal enterprise. So tell me, if the Democrats are pure as the driven snow then why did they support a candidate who became mega rich as Secretary of State and covered her tracks with the aid of the previous administration? You seem concerned about Trump's tax returns(which legally he does not have to release, that's a tradition not a law), but aren't you equally concerned that she acid washed her server to prevent the reading of 33,000 emails? It was admitted by Comey already that she mishandled classified emails, some at the highest classification possible, out of the ones she did release. Where is the prosecution? There are people in prison right now who's infraction was miniscule compared to the scope of her's. Yet total silence from the Democrats and they voted in even bigger numbers for her, just not enough where it mattered. So when anyone charges the Republicans are corrupt and turns a blind eye to Democrat corruption how are they to be taken seriously? So why do I support Republicans? Because building dependency in exchange for votes does not insure a strong country. I really don't care that some get super rich building a business as long as they are providing solid jobs and aren't killing people doing it. But the whole keep the money flowing to the poor and to the government unions in exchange for them keeping me in office business just increases the debt without building a middle class. And the debt is close to collapsing the whole thing. Then where will we be? Can hardly wait for the derailment and red X's.
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You complain about the debt, but support tax cuts for the wealthy. You're from Kansas that just had to override the governor's veto so they could increase taxes. As it turns out you need some money on the revenue side to balance the equation. I believe corporations have shown they don't care about providing good jobs to sustain a middle class, so that leaves government intervention through regulation to make it happen. Republican beliefs just aren't supported by evidence.
 
V

vantexan

Well-Known Member
It will be fine said:
You complain about the debt, but support tax cuts for the wealthy. You're from Kansas that just had to override the governor's veto so they could increase taxes. As it turns out you need some money on the revenue side to balance the equation. I believe corporations have shown they don't care about providing good jobs to sustain a middle class, so that leaves government intervention through regulation to make it happen. Republican beliefs just aren't supported by evidence.
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How do you force good jobs? If that was possible why hasn't it happened? You need an environment where business can thrive. Then they will hire and compete for available workers. That raises pay. If you strangle business through over regulation and taxation you'll just keep the quagmire we have. But the justice warriors can't bear the thought that some might get rich doing that. It wasn't tax cuts to the wealthy that produced the national debt, it was overspending. There isn't enough wealth in this country to maintain that kind of spending. If Kansas went too far, fine, but don't swing the pendulum too far in the other direction or they will again have a crisis.
 

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