Yes or NO on NEW CONTRACT?

[RockyRogue]

Around here you can max out at $21 an hour sitting on your butt driving a city bus.

I think its about $19/hr here. For a 40 hour work week with 52 weeks in a year, they're looking at about $40K. Not bad....

Personally I think you folks should push the button and send the balloon up. You folks are too stupid to realize that you're on e good near strike away from losing it all. Theres a side of me that hopes you're stupid enough to push that button.

I have to agree, Tie. Customers won't put up with a 'poor-house' cry from UPS'ers on the lines. I say this because most people know how well you get paid, Red. My Dad told me a couple of years ago, "I was talking to a UPS driver about ten years ago and he said he was netting about $50K/yr." That conversation was in the early '90s, I think. You won't get ANY sympathy from me about your pensions. No, sir. Too much of the 'rugged individualist' in me, I guess. -Rocky

 

[1989]

Why is everything always our fault? If we vote this contract down its because we are not happy with it, and we should not vote for it because we might lose some business over voting it down. I would rather lose some customers than some of the language that we could lose over by voting yes! You cannot be a driver as you claim, you have to be a sup pretending to be a driver.

It's your fault because you have to take responsibility for your actions. A no vote could lead up to a strike or worse yet a lock out. What if it lead to a stike? What would you tell your bottom drivers? Possibly, 4 or 5 could be laid off for months after a strike. I saw 2 of the lowest seniority drivers not come back after the 97 strike.

 

[pontiac467]

i really dont think people are going to vote no because of the raises, i am in feeders but not in cs but i have talked to other drivers in cs and the biggest thing they complain about is the subcontracting. They tell me if it wasnt for the new subcontracting lanuage they would vote yes. most of the drivers i talked to are not close to retirement mabye thats why they feel like they do including me, if this passes it WILL shrink the feeder department. Just my opinion, but im sure if you were in package car there would be your own set of complaints about the contract. The point is i think most of the people that work for ups could find something wrong with it. 6 billion is alot of money and im sure they expect something in return but it should not be the elimination of jobs, the way the new subcontracting lanuage is i think that will happen. The guy with 20+ years left wont like the contract and the guy getting ready to retire more than likely will like it. Plus i believe its just a tempoary fix to the pension.

 

[Damok]

This pension meeting will be interesting and I will give up the details, guessing that it will turn into a yelling match and drag on for hours.

Just go into it with an open mind... if you are unwilling to be swayed either way if facts were to warrant it then you ought not go at all.

 

[Damok]

Do you think the customers will stay put or return if you vote this one down and drag things out until july 31st?

What you quoted was not from me - I think the quoter messed up.

 

[Damok]

You folks are too stupid to realize that you're one good near strike away from losing it all. Theres a side of me that hopes you're stupid enough to push that button.

Now that's a bit much What happened to being level headed?

 

[Fredless]

LOL, good one Red. I'm done trying to convince myself of such horse****. Personally I think you folks should push the button and send the balloon up. You folks are too stupid to realize that you're one good near strike away from losing it all. Theres a side of me that hopes you're stupid enough to push that button.

LOL. Me too.....me too. Bring it on.

 

[satellitedriver]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bear123
For UPS to get new hires now, they have to offer earn and learn program. Give them $200.00 bonus if they pass a sort test. Offer a shuttle service for people who dont have means of transportation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by satellitedriver
I hope this is sarcasm.

Why would you think so? We had shuttles, bonuses for no lates during peak, bonuses for sticking it out for a period of time, etc., here. Taking part of employee's pay out from under the contract and making it discretionary on the part of management could become more and more of a practice as the contractual starting pay becomes less and less competitive. Think about it.

Why do I think a shuttle service is a bad concept?
I can only answer, this way.
It takes the personal drive to have a job at UPS out of the equation.
Only people with a strong work ethic make it for the long term at UPS.
I commuted 110 miles a day for 10 yrs to have the privilege to work for UPS.
Never missed a day, due to illness or weather.
My personal belief is, if one is not willing to do what it takes to at least get to their workplace, then they are not worthy of having the job.
PAX

 

[705red]

LOL, good one Red. I'm done trying to convince myself of such horse****. Personally I think you folks should push the button and send the balloon up. You folks are too stupid to realize that you're one good near strike away from losing it all. Theres a side of me that hopes you're stupid enough to push that button.

Tie, thank god we dont have that many stupid people left in the rank and file, ups has done a great job promoting them into management. Tie if we cant go anywhere and make close to this kind of money were will a sup like your self go knowing that you make less than us? If your doomsday scenario was to come true!

 

[Fredless]

Quote:

Never missed a day, due to illness or weather.
My personal belief is, if one is not willing to do what it takes to at least get to their workplace, then they are not worthy of having the job.
PAX

Very very well said Satellite!

 

[tieguy]

Tie, thank god we dont have that many stupid people left in the rank and file, ups has done a great job promoting them into management. Tie if we cant go anywhere and make close to this kind of money were will a sup like your self go knowing that you make less than us? If your doomsday scenario was to come true!

Don't know red I don't know any sups like myself. I'll just sit back and watch you guys create reasons to vote against your brothers in CS and laugh at the BS reasons you will come up with to dodge helping them.

 

[tieguy]

Is this what you forget that you typed?


Actually I don't believe I have said anything of the type. I've only made about 10 posts the past month so I'm not sure why you are having such a hard time understanding me.

I'm not selling this contract. I don't believe it can be sold. I don't believe you and others like you will be good brothers to those in CS.
As you read through these posts there are too many hysterics associated with the whole issue on both sides. I would expect you as an experienced shop steward would be able to control your own hystronics and provide some calm level headed analysis.

I really don't believe this contract offer will pass. It would require you folks who are not in CS to be good team players for those who are. You won't do it. And you won't admit to not giving a crap about the CS pensioners. So what you will do is create a bunch of hullaballoo about other things under the pretense of the company trying to pull a fast one.

No the fact is you folks will sell out your CS brothers and sisters and give everyone a thousand other reasons why you did it. I see 97 happening all over again. The fact is you will screw your cs brothers again as you did in 97.

Looks like you missed this post the first time Red

 

[satellitedriver]

Is this what you forget that you typed?


Actually I don't believe I have said anything of the type. I've only made about 10 posts the past month so I'm not sure why you are having such a hard time understanding me.

I'm not selling this contract. I don't believe it can be sold. I don't believe you and others like you will be good brothers to those in CS.
As you read through these posts there are too many hysterics associated with the whole issue on both sides. I would expect you as an experienced shop steward would be able to control your own hystronics and provide some calm level headed analysis.

I really don't believe this contract offer will pass. It would require you folks who are not in CS to be good team players for those who are. You won't do it. And you won't admit to not giving a crap about the CS pensioners. So what you will do is create a bunch of hullaballoo about other things under the pretense of the company trying to pull a fast one.

No the fact is you folks will sell out your CS brothers and sisters and give everyone a thousand other reasons why you did it. I see 97 happening all over again. The fact is you will screw your cs brothers again as you did in 97.

I give this contract a 50/50 chance of passing.
It is 97' all over again, but this time it only reveals the infighting within the union.

When APWA was the topic on Brown Cafe, two points were always stressed by the strong teamsters supporters.
1. APWA was a conspiracy with UPS to destroy the teamsters control.
2. The teamsters had vast experience negotiating contracts.

Well now the shoe is on the other foot.

Strong teamster supporters now post two complaints with the negotiated contract proposal.
1.The teamsters have caved in to UPS, by accepting a solution to CS problems that the union cannot fix.
2.The teamster negotiators did not know how to get a good contract out of UPS.

How easily the supposed logic of solidarity can be influenced. It is almost comical, if not for the fact it is such a serious subject.
This one contract cannot solve all the ills or concerns of Upser's, if it could it would be the last contract needed.
This will not be the last one.

So, in closing, I agree with your post Tie.

 

[trickpony1]

My personal belief is, if one is not willing to do what it takes to at least get to their workplace, then they are not worthy of having the job.
PAX

Good point.
Go ahead and risk your life on an icy interstate to get to work.
If/when you have an accident in your personal vehicle and end up in the hospital, if not dead, where will the company be? I can tell you.......no where.

But then you are/have been so special the company will probably pay to have your car repaired/replaced and give you a weekly check while you lay in ICU/CCU.

 

[govols019]

I'm in CS and I will be voting No.

I'm willing to forgo raises or have them reduced to help the pension but I'm not willing to give back hard won work rules.

 

[satellitedriver]

Good point.
Go ahead and risk your life on an icy interstate to get to work.
If/when you have an accident in your personal vehicle and end up in the hospital, if not dead, where will the company be? I can tell you.......no where.

But then you are/have been so special the company will probably pay to have your car repaired/replaced and give you a weekly check while you lay in ICU/CCU.

Hey, 1trickpony
I do not risk my life. I prepare and adapt, to preserve it.
So, you are saying the company should come pick you up and bring you to work?
Funny you should bring up the icy road thing.
In this part of Texas we get little snow,mostly ice storms.
A freakin blizzard hit in the 80's. Ice and snow covered roads.
I loaded my pickup truck with sand, come alongs, shovels, rope and what else I thought I would need if I got stranded on the road to work.
I packed an overnight bag and reserved a room at the motel 8 down the road from the center because I wasn't sure I could make it home that night.
I made it there before start time.
Half the drivers called in because they could not make it because of the ice. Most lived within 1 mile of the center. I do not blame them, they had an excuse, even though I had driven 55 miles to get there.
Since the center was at a stand still due to iced roads, drivers that made it to the center were sent home.
I stayed and worked for two hours trying to make pickups.
Stayed at the motel that night and was at work on the next morning.
No one from management said thank you. I did not expect it from them.
I only did it out of my duty to go work, if it is at all possible.
I am not some kind of super hero company man. I am a man who was raised without any extra money in the house and a father that taught me the value of having a job.
If I have an accident on my own time and end up in the hospital, why should I expect the company to care?
Everyone of us take our life in our own hands when we venture onto the highways in the U.S.
P.S.
Where will the teamsters be if the same thing happens to you on the way to work?

 

[tieguy]

I'm in CS and I will be voting No.

I'm willing to forgo raises or have them reduced to help the pension but I'm not willing to give back hard won work rules.

Then you'll live with your decision well into your sixties.

 

[area43]

Hey, 1trickpony
I do not risk my life. I prepare and adapt, to preserve it.
So, you are saying the company should come pick you up and bring you to work?
Funny you should bring up the icy road thing.
In this part of Texas we get little snow,mostly ice storms.
A freakin blizzard hit in the 80's. Ice and snow covered roads.
I loaded my pickup truck with sand, come alongs, shovels, rope and what else I thought I would need if I got stranded on the road to work.
I packed an overnight bag and reserved a room at the motel 8 down the road from the center because I wasn't sure I could make it home that night.
I made it there before start time.
Half the drivers called in because they could not make it because of the ice. Most lived within 1 mile of the center. I do not blame them, they had an excuse, even though I had driven 55 miles to get there.
Since the center was at a stand still due to iced roads, drivers that made it to the center were sent home.
I stayed and worked for two hours trying to make pickups.
Stayed at the motel that night and was at work on the next morning.
No one from management said thank you. I did not expect it from them.
I only did it out of my duty to go work, if it is at all possible.
I am not some kind of super hero company man. I am a man who was raised without any extra money in the house and a father that taught me the value of having a job.
If I have an accident on my own time and end up in the hospital, why should I expect the company to care?
Everyone of us take our life in our own hands when we venture onto the highways in the U.S.
P.S.
Where will the teamsters be if the same thing happens to you on the way to work?

Great work ethic.

 

[govols019]

Then you'll live with your decision well into your sixties.

Hopefully, I'll live with my decision well into my 100's.

Right now I'm happy that my decision will allow me to look at myself in the mirror knowing I didn't vote for a substandard contract.

 

[Cezanne]

Tie,

You are under the assumption that every UPS union member will be voting on this new IBT/UPS pension plan and of course the withdraw from the Central States fund. Recently found out that only the teamsters in the Central States area will be able to vote on that issue. I believe that it will be under the (Central supplemental agreement ) the (Master contract lanuage) will be voted by the total UPS membership. I hope this clarifies your misunderstanding to whether anybody will be selling our Central States brothers and sisters out by voting "NO". It will be ratified or not by the members affected.

Also found out that in order to start this new pension plan it will take an additional 2 billion dollars to fully fund. This buyout and liability is in reality costing UPS over 8 billion dollars. How is this going to effect management's pension and perks will told on a later date. Just from seeing some of the flight from some of the management in our building I am guessing the cuts are happening and or will be in place soon.