10 minutes "inside building" the rest is on road no matter what...

[pretzel_man]

Here is an honest question.

If they are so wound up about being spoon-fed a make believe number...why not just program the DIAD to show the 10 minutes of AM time automatically?

I'm being serious here. Its a simple solution. Remove the human factor entirely, and program the equipment to provide the desired statistic. The drivers can do their jobs honestly, and the management team gets to look at the number they want to see on the report. Its a win/win.

The issue is that this is a single location and the manager or supervisor is WRONG....

While this doesn't impact a driver's pay (or even impact important numbers) its still a numbers game and is the wrong direction to give. Overallowed in the AM will transfer to overallowed on road.

If I were to bet, the district or region has issues with overallowed in the AM. So, rather than fix the problem and have the preload go down clean, they are hiding it by limiting reported AM time.

I hope this catches up with them.

P-Man

 

[tfinnegan]

You should ask the Supv again while having another union person there with you to clarify what he means by 10 mins. Work as directed, put 10 min. in Diad and then file greivance paperwork as to being instructed to falsify diad/time card...Drivers in my bldg have lost job over diad falsification...Sounds like it is all about the preload trying to make the numbers and then delivery drivers not helping by not getting out of bldg in 10 min.

 

[govols019]

We only get 8 minutes.

 

[All Day]

Why do we even code out time anymore??? Shouldn't we just worry about how to cut the overall paid day? I mean we get paid the same no matter what we are doing...

 

[SWORDFISH]

It no longer shows because they take it out. It seems that UPS nationwide is trying to make us kill ourselves more and more and make us look worse than we really are by taking out all extra allowance that we are actually taking time for away. Remember the union doesnt recogonize the allowances because they are lies in many ways. As hard as we all work we would be destroying are allowances w/ the other work options and they would have to pay out alot more money to the bonus centers.

 

[Billy]

If it were somehow possible to get every driver that heard to put 10 min only in their board to file a grievance...this issue would have died when it started. Most likely, LP is the one who would terminate, or at least discipline this issue.Therefore, LP is the one who needs to handle this case, and this issue is currently being looked at by the LP regional manager. LP is aware that the driver does not want to enter the information wrong, but fears disciplinary action from his boss if he doesn't. I think that the OP will be fine, and this issue will go away soon enough.

 

[some1else]

While this doesn't impact a driver's pay (or even impact important numbers) its still a numbers game and is the wrong direction to give. Overallowed in the AM will transfer to overallowed on road.

im not sure i follow. i have planned, on-road, and paid times. the planned vs. on-road determines my bonus. the paid time includes am/pm/training/breakdown/other work. if i get stuck in the building for 30 min. put am time and put other work sort/load, or compl training or whatever i am instructed to do in that time; it doesnt hurt my bonus. if i put 10 minutes am time ill loose 20 minutes of bonus...

but im with you the district is using the drivers to "eat" preloads inabillity to make numbers

 

[pretzel_man]

im not sure i follow. i have planned, on-road, and paid times. the planned vs. on-road determines my bonus. the paid time includes am/pm/training/breakdown/other work. if i get stuck in the building for 30 min. put am time and put other work sort/load, or compl training or whatever i am instructed to do in that time; it doesnt hurt my bonus. if i put 10 minutes am time ill loose 20 minutes of bonus...

but im with you the district is using the drivers to "eat" preloads inabillity to make numbers

I apologize. I thought I read that you were not a bonus driver.

 

[Bubblehead]

Here is an honest question.

If they are so wound up about being spoon-fed a make believe number...why not just program the DIAD to show the 10 minutes of AM time automatically?

I'm being serious here. Its a simple solution. Remove the human factor entirely, and program the equipment to provide the desired statistic. The drivers can do their jobs honestly, and the management team gets to look at the number they want to see on the report. Its a win/win.

If they did that, maybe we could take it one step further.
While they were at it, they could fix the DIAD program so the duplicate stop button wasn't necessary.
Seems to me that if they didn't want to give us credit for a second attempt at an address, then don't.
If you don't differentiate the stop in the room or consignee field, no credit, problem solved.
Same goes for the forbidden other-other in the non delivery field.
Just get rid of it, problem solved.
Maybe they could program the DIAD to not allow us to stop complete a commercial stop between 12-1pm.
Do this, and it will never be an issue again.
Instead they would rather spend their resources on training tens of thousands of drivers to jump through hoops.
Tired of idiots?
Make it idiot proof.
Idiot.

 

[iowa boy]

Bubblehead,

Can you realistically see IE trying to make something idiot proof?

 

[dannyboy]

I still do my pretrip, etc in the lot, BUT I have to eat that time as it is in my on road time

tooner

the problem with this scene is that you did not eat that pretrip time as on road time the last time study now did you?

and this is the rub.

when they do a time study, the left building time is when you went through the gate at our center. mostly because if you are parked inside the building, there could be as much as 15+ minutes time between the first and last truck able to leave. our building is so small, they have to leave in the parked order.

so why, if the time study shows left building as the time we go through the gate, do they insist on pulling the 10 minutes (actually they wanted only 10 hundredreths or 7 minutes) of am time.

pretzelman gave the answer. instead of fixing the problem, they shift the over allowed from the preload to the driver group. and no, they wont get caught, because the game being played with numbers is authorized from further up. so the wrong doing continues, but only those that drink the coolaid.

as i posted earlier, i never have punched left building before i actually left building, and that includes after the pretrip. that is the way the time study was done. and anything different is dishonest. and if they actually tried to force the issue, they knew i would make a phone call, or file.

d

 

[island1fox]

Dany,
Before I retired --I know that many , many buildings went to pre-trip in the lot and this is how they are time studied.
One of the major reasons for this --not am time or on road --but the fumes in the building were choking everyone while doing their pretrips --only made sense to do them in the lots !!

 

[island1fox]

This entire issue is very sad. For those of you on the west coast --CA--OR--WA--about seven years ago this was a very hot issue. A region "preload trainor" told a bunch of part-time and full time Preload supervisors that if your preload was closed door finished and the air was on time --the am time should never be more than 10 minutes per driver. If it was --you should bring it to the day center managers attention and he should work with the drivers involved.
Many day center managers instead of working with the drivers --did not want to argue with the Preload manager or supervisors --instructed the supervisors to "edit" any driver whose doors were closed -but did not leave the building in ten minutes.
This practice spread through three large districts. Someone called Corporate ---they came in ---I agree some management should have lost their jobs --but Corporate went through a "salem witch hunt" --I know many Division level ops and IE managers --who were not involved --but were burnt at the stake of Integrity.
As the story was passed down or up --level to level --some claimed that the Region P/L trainer had "instructed" the p/l supers to edit cards ---You can obviously see --how something so minor can transform into a huge "Integrity" problem.
Much of the incident I spoke about was laziness and missinformed people --but many paid with their UPS lives !!!

 

[705red]

This entire issue is very sad. For those of you on the west coast --CA--OR--WA--about seven years ago this was a very hot issue. A region "preload trainor" told a bunch of part-time and full time Preload supervisors that if your preload was closed door finished and the air was on time --the am time should never be more than 10 minutes per driver. If it was --you should bring it to the day center managers attention and he should work with the drivers involved.
Many day center managers instead of working with the drivers --did not want to argue with the Preload manager or supervisors --instructed the supervisors to "edit" any driver whose doors were closed -but did not leave the building in ten minutes.
This practice spread through three large districts. Someone called Corporate ---they came in ---I agree some management should have lost their jobs --but Corporate went through a "salem witch hunt" --I know many Division level ops and IE managers --who were not involved --but were burnt at the stake of Integrity.
As the story was passed down or up --level to level --some claimed that the Region P/L trainer had "instructed" the p/l supers to edit cards ---You can obviously see --how something so minor can transform into a huge "Integrity" problem.
Much of the incident I spoke about was laziness and missinformed people --but many paid with their UPS lives !!!

As they should, if an employee was being dishoest at this level as in saying he attempted packages every day yet never did go to teh adrress he to should be fired. I have no respect for management like this. Good management would work to correct the problem from the root, bad management hides it by being dishonest.

 

[island1fox]

705 Red,
I am not attacking you on your response. I agree "dishonest people " mgmt or hourly should be dealt with severly.
I ask you to take a step back and take a deep breathe.
The incident I discribed is a real stretch on 'DISHONESTY.
1. If the p/l was in fact closed
2. If all of the drivers were out on time --but a handful were not---the day manager acknowledged --the time should be on-road --but until I have time to work with this minor problem --code the card to what it should be any way.
3. Has no effect on drivers pay.
4. The additional o/r time for four or five drivers does not have a "major" impact on SPOR
5. The additional am time on four or five drivers on a small preload has major effects on the PPH --which the p/l supers pay raise can be based off of.
The expanation gets a little confusing --by no means justifying dishonesty --just the opposite ---In the example I gave the time should be on road ----but it should be corrected the right way.
My point is that this can be a very minor incident ---or it can be very devious dishonest mgmt that deserve to lose their jobs -----The incident or incidents should be carefully investigated !!!

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Dany,
Before I retired --I know that many , many buildings went to pre-trip in the lot and this is how they are time studied.
One of the major reasons for this --not am time or on road --but the fumes in the building were choking everyone while doing their pretrips --only made sense to do them in the lots !!

Cold pretrips?

 

[Just_another_day_at_work]

Everything back to normal. I got 1 late air due to 40 min inside the building, so I just put the real time, LP suggested to call corporate number. If the Sup want something again, I will ask for written instruction as most of you suggested. Thanks for the advices.

 

[dannyboy]

A region "preload trainor" told a bunch of part-time and full time Preload supervisors that if your preload was closed door finished and the air was on time --the am time should never be more than 10 minutes per driver. If it was --you should bring it to the day center managers attention and he should work with the drivers involved.
Many day center managers instead of working with the drivers --did not want to argue with the Preload manager or supervisors --instructed the supervisors to "edit" any driver whose doors were closed -but did not leave the building in ten minutes.
This practice spread through three large districts. Someone called Corporate ---they came in ---I agree some management should have lost their jobs --but Corporate went through a "salem witch hunt" --I know many Division level ops and IE managers --who were not involved --but were burnt at the stake of Integrity.
As the story was passed down or up --level to level --some claimed that the Region P/L trainer had "instructed" the p/l supers to edit cards ---You can obviously see --how something so minor can transform into a huge "Integrity" problem.
Much of the incident I spoke about was laziness and missinformed people --but many paid with their UPS lives !!!

i find that this is a major reason for many management people losing their jobs. it leads to many things getting out of control.

am time, if the preload is finished when the drivers exit the pcm, should be small. the problem lies with a 5 minute pcm, a two minute walk to the car, then pulling enough cars out to be able to do a complete walk around. when you have 10 cars parked 1.5 inches apart, you cant do the proper pretrip with the car in the lineup.

so while i well understand the issue, there needs to be a return to reality.

what i do find interesting is the change of time cards so the part time sup can get paid correctly, but yet management refuses to correct time cards to pay an air driver properly when she picks up bulk stops. why is it that time cards are always changed to benefit management?

and then maybe that is why so many had to fall on their sword, both those that were dishonest, and those that stood by.

d

 

[island1fox]

Danny,
Not looking to get into a pissing match --we all have our opinions.
If a driver in a "car pool" is caught on phony compensation and is discharged ---should the entire "car pool" be discharged because they probably knew ??? Most people would say no. Some of these operating Div mgrs are responsible for huge divisions some involving many buildings and hundreds of people. They have numerous items to track and many meetings and conference calls to attend. If they knowingly took part in any dishonest act --no argument ---but to take out a person with 20-25 yrs of hard experience because some dopey P/t supervisor falsified two or three time cards in his division --makes no sense to me !!
Obviously --as clearly --stated --all such incidents should be CAREFULLY and closely investigated --the guilty should pay big ---"Because it happened on your watch" is very open for debate !!

PS -Danny -I know we are both retired and probably share many experiences at UPS. I would hesitate --either way to make a "blanket" statement --regarding either management or hourly --to state "mgmt only edits cards when it benefits them " ??? A bit unfair

 

[dannyboy]

Some of these operating Div mgrs are responsible for huge divisions some involving many buildings and hundreds of people. They have numerous items to track and many meetings and conference calls to attend. If they knowingly took part in any dishonest act --no argument ---but to take out a person with 20-25 yrs of hard experience because some dopey P/t supervisor falsified two or three time cards in his division --makes no sense to me !!

after re reading my post, i can see where you think that i agreed with dismissing everyone in the food chain for the time card changes. that is not the case, and i apologize for the mis cue. I do think that while meetings are good, and needed for transmission of directives and changes in policy or other needed changes, too many times none of what gets passed down from above gets to the ground in the way it was intended. maybe ups needs to spend some more quality time communicating with the front lines?

make a "blanket" statement --regarding either management or hourly --to state "mgmt only edits cards when it benefits them " ??? A bit unfair

you have my apology, it is an unfair statement. i have seen management add time to a time card for some, and take it away for others, so it is an unfair generalization.

i apologize.

d