3rd Vote

[Stonefish]

All the more reason for union officials to support and consistently interact with members....especially about contract language proposals.
" Because I said so" is an ample response to your two year old child in answering a question but it is not the professional answer or attitude to dues paying members questions, after their earnestly compiled contract changes are flushed, that they (we) deserve.

I can't speak for other locals I can only speak for mine and I don't feel we have the issues that others have. We are fortunate.

 

[chuchu]

I can't speak for other locals I can only speak for mine and I don't feel we have the issues that others have. We are fortunate.

its not a local issue in my opinion, its a prevailing attitude throughout the IBT leadership.

 

[BigUnionGuy]

What I was told....

Through negotiations this time Mr. Hall was able to move this local into TeamCare and no more premium co pays. If I am wrong please tell me

What you heard was wrong. Way.... beyond wrong.



-Bug-

 

[O/C]

Sounds like someone is drinking the anti freeze. It isn't in the best interest to keep voting it down. I understand (not necessarily agree) with Bubblehead and Chuchu and why they feel the way they do. Nothing venture, nothing gained can also be a lot lost to a lot of people you included. I also was around in 97 and was improperly discharged after we came back from the strike and what is so different is the climate out there. In Tennessee politicians are telling the public not to vote for union's. In South Carolina the governor was on the news telling people union's aren't welcome. There are more right to work states than there were in 97. The votes you reference may not be fear driven they may be realistic driven. I feel and I don't fault you for your beliefs but I feel the history your want to make is not really what you are looking for.

I can understand what you are saying, the climate has changed since 1997 but that does not justify voting out of fear. Maybe I am wrong in my observations about what is happening, but admit these negotiations were never about providing the membership information, all we got was spin-doctoring. I have my own issues with the Ohio Rider that has really not been brought up on this site, again you are not getting the whole story to make an informed vote.

I just get tired of the victim mentality that is out there, not only with this issue. I have the most respect for those you post on this site, at least you are trying to do something or understand the issues but I am afraid we are in the minority. Question would be are we actually doing something or just venting.

I have posted on this site the last two contracts under a different site name. I tried to help members to understand the contract pros and cons. Been pretty disappointed with the results, but what the hell I will give it another chance with at least some hope.

I have to watch myself as many of you know this site can be a bit addictive, just have a sense of humor and don't let the issues eat your soul. Besides it provides a good tool to upgrade my grammar and spelling skills.

 

[ezmoney5150]

I won't put a limit on that. Just saying while profiting that much we shouldn't concede anything.

Just out of curiosity, while were on the topic of profits. What would make you happy. If the company broke even every year. Where's your bargaining power then? And the concept of negotiations, unless youre a 5 year old , isn't you made 5 billion. Give us everything you get nothing. Concede nothing? What world do you live in? You should be on the board of Wall Mart. They concede nothing to their employees.

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[ezmoney5150]

Give me a break, it is all political, and everybody has a agenda. Look what is happening, try to get the "Big Picture" even if the Ohio Rider passes it will still be a very long time till the contract is finalized. Way too many locals out there who didn't drink the Kool-aid, they will hold out till the end. Would be for the best interest for all of us under the Ohio Rider to vote it down for the third time, nothing ventured, nothing gained. I was around in "97", been there, done that, what is so different in 2014? I am afraid most of the yes votes were fear-driven, face it most of us just got too comfortable to consider looking after the other guy that this contract through under the bus. Besides it would be more interesting to make history if this thing gets voted down, that is enough incentive for me to vote "No".

The yes votes aren't fear driven. Fortunately most people that work at UPS have common sense. They figure I got a raise, I don't pay for healthcare and I got pension increases. Yes there are some things I don't like but overall the good outweighs the bad. So they voted yes. Then there are some on this board who take the dictator approach of "UPS made 5 billion we get everything, you get nothing" And if I dont get what I want I'll vote no and hold my breath.

 

[ezmoney5150]

I can understand what you are saying, the climate has changed since 1997 but that does not justify voting out of fear. Maybe I am wrong in my observations about what is happening, but admit these negotiations were never about providing the membership information, all we got was spin-doctoring. I have my own issues with the Ohio Rider that has really not been brought up on this site, again you are not getting the whole story to make an informed vote.

I just get tired of the victim mentality that is out there, not only with this issue. I have the most respect for those you post on this site, at least you are trying to do something or understand the issues but I am afraid we are in the minority. Question would be are we actually doing something or just venting.

I have posted on this site the last two contracts under a different site name. I tried to help members to understand the contract pros and cons. Been pretty disappointed with the results, but what the hell I will give it another chance with at least some hope.

I have to watch myself as many of you know this site can be a bit addictive, just have a sense of humor and don't let the issues eat your soul. Besides it provides a good tool to upgrade my grammar and spelling skills.

Just out of curiosity. what's your issues with the Ohio Rider?

 

[O/C]

Just out of curiosity, while were on the topic of profits. What would make you happy. If the company broke even every year. Where's your bargaining power then? And the concept of negotiations, unless youre a 5 year old , isn't you made 5 billion. Give us everything you get nothing. Concede nothing? What world do you live in? You should be on the board of Wall Mart. They concede nothing to their employees.

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You just confirmed his point, what happens next contract if the company breaks even or God-forbid loses money. If this contract is concessionary with the profits recorded can you imagine what would happen, working at Walmart might not be too bad afterall.

 

[ezmoney5150]

You just confirmed his point, what happens next contract if the company breaks even or God-forbid loses money. If this contract is concessionary with the profits recorded can you imagine what would happen, working at Walmart might not be too bad afterall.

Wal Mart not too bad? Surely you jest. You cant be serious.

 

[O/C]

Just out of curiosity. what's your issues with the Ohio Rider?

I can tell you ez, but the timing is not right.

 

[O/C]

Wal Mart not too bad? Surely you jest. You cant be serious.

Of course I am not serious, I jest to prove a point.

 

[Stonefish]

What you heard was wrong. Way.... beyond wrong.



-Bug-

And again enlighten or are you trolling

 

[Stonefish]

I can understand what you are saying, the climate has changed since 1997 but that does not justify voting out of fear. Maybe I am wrong in my observations about what is happening, but admit these negotiations were never about providing the membership information, all we got was spin-doctoring. I have my own issues with the Ohio Rider that has really not been brought up on this site, again you are not getting the whole story to make an informed vote.

I just get tired of the victim mentality that is out there, not only with this issue. I have the most respect for those you post on this site, at least you are trying to do something or understand the issues but I am afraid we are in the minority. Question would be are we actually doing something or just venting.

I have posted on this site the last two contracts under a different site name. I tried to help members to understand the contract pros and cons. Been pretty disappointed with the results, but what the hell I will give it another chance with at least some hope.

I have to watch myself as many of you know this site can be a bit addictive, just have a sense of humor and don't let the issues eat your soul. Besides it provides a good tool to upgrade my grammar and spelling skills.

The lack of information was an issue and Mr. Hall took responsibility and apologized for that. We should be past that. Then when the second vote came people at least in my area were pissed because they got too much information. I would love to know what your issues are with the Ohio Rider. I do feel I am making an informed decision on the vote. We just disagree with each other which is fine. It happens.
The victim mentality is a thing unfortunately everyone seems to have. It is like the MEASTER's who only care about themselves and screw everyone else. We need to stick together as a family but we also need to realize as a family what's best for everyone and move on until next contract.
If anything, the next proposal meetings and negotiations will forever be changed by what took place over the last year.
I'm too old to care about my grammar skills now.

 

[Stonefish]

And again enlighten or are you trolling

That's what I thought bud.

 

[chuchu]

Just out of curiosity, while were on the topic of profits. What would make you happy. If the company broke even every year. Where's your bargaining power then? And the concept of negotiations, unless youre a 5 year old , isn't you made 5 billion. Give us everything you get nothing. Concede nothing? What world do you live in? You should be on the board of Wall Mart. They concede nothing to their employees.

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Estimating the no. of ft drivers (125,000), the company would break even, minus the FICA tax issue, giving them each a $769 per week raise when netting 5 billion annually...and more if they acquired less debt.
If 1-2 billion of that profit comes from logistics and assuming freight is solvent that cuts the raise margins down even more.
Its not that the company isn't doing well its that (and it's been said on here before..recently) the whole deal was suspect to how things were handled and people are angry.
We had to fight the first time around to get rid of the extra mmi and extra Art 17 language, which was probably fluff to give up anyway, and it's not just about healthcare. It's about future unknown change in our plan that already looks suspect given the different levels of "enhancement" in locals of the same state.
EZ brother, I've given you a hard time on your seemingly uncaring attitude toward others that aren't on C6 and are working on getting to top rate to feed three kids and better themselves. I don't mean to be rude in return. I appologize.
But know this, several thousand of your brothers and sisters are pretty angry at how this is playing out because they are losing value in their bennies and you aren't. It's not a black and white issue that can be easily fixed and/or forgotten.

 

[Brownslave688]

Just out of curiosity, while were on the topic of profits. What would make you happy. If the company broke even every year. Where's your bargaining power then? And the concept of negotiations, unless youre a 5 year old , isn't you made 5 billion. Give us everything you get nothing. Concede nothing? What world do you live in? You should be on the board of Wall Mart. They concede nothing to their employees.

Sent using BrownCafe App

Ill take a quote from billy Madison. Everyone on this forum is now dumber after reading this.

Your take what was written and take it to the extreme and put words in people's mouths. Is extremely annoying.

 

[ezmoney5150]

Just saying while profiting that much we shouldn't concede anything.

Ill take a quote from billy Madison. Everyone on this forum is now dumber after reading this.

Your take what was written and take it to the extreme and put words in people's mouths. Is extremely annoying.

How did I put words in your mouth? You said "Just saying while profiting that much we shouldn't concede anything." If I am taking that out of context then please feel free to elaborate. I think that quote is pretty clear.

 

[ezmoney5150]

Estimating the no. of ft drivers (125,000), the company would break even, minus the FICA tax issue, giving them each a $769 per week raise when netting 5 billion annually...and more if they acquired less debt.
If 1-2 billion of that profit comes from logistics and assuming freight is solvent that cuts the raise margins down even more.
Its not that the company isn't doing well its that (and it's been said on here before..recently) the whole deal was suspect to how things were handled and people are angry.
We had to fight the first time around to get rid of the extra mmi and extra Art 17 language, which was probably fluff to give up anyway, and it's not just about healthcare. It's about future unknown change in our plan that already looks suspect given the different levels of "enhancement" in locals of the same state.
EZ brother, I've given you a hard time on your seemingly uncaring attitude toward others that aren't on C6 and are working on getting to top rate to feed three kids and better themselves. I don't mean to be rude in return. I appologize.
But know this, several thousand of your brothers and sisters are pretty angry at how this is playing out because they are losing value in their bennies and you aren't. It's not a black and white issue that can be easily fixed and/or forgotten.

IMHO people are "angry" because certain people whip them into a hysteria that they're getting screwed.

As far as Art. 17 (I'm assuming you don't like 17i) if the company says they're not giving it up, guess what, its not going anywhere. About 10 years ago the company came to us about changing our dispatch procedure. They wanted to change the call in procedure to 2 hours. They wanted us to give them more than what the contract provides. We said no and guess what? We're still living under the same dispatch agreement with a 1 hour call in. The company is not going to give away 17i without us giving up something big. What are you willing to give up for 17i?

 

[Brownslave688]

How did I put words in your mouth? You said "Just saying while profiting that much we shouldn't concede anything." If I am taking that out of context then please feel free to elaborate. I think that quote is pretty clear.

Then your reading conmprehention level is very low. I would bet 99% of the members here understand that meant. No change in healthcare no longer progression. Basically status quo.

When a company is making a healthy profit we as union members should not even be discussing whether or not X concession is worthy of a no vote or not. Concessions should of never made it to the point that we even vote on it.

 

[chuchu]

IMHO people are "angry" because certain people whip them into a hysteria that they're getting screwed.

As far as Art. 17 (I'm assuming you don't like 17i) if the company says they're not giving it up, guess what, its not going anywhere. About 10 years ago the company came to us about changing our dispatch procedure. They wanted to change the call in procedure to 2 hours. They wanted us to give them more than what the contract provides. We said no and guess what? We're still living under the same dispatch agreement with a 1 hour call in. The company is not going to give away 17i without us giving up something big. What are you willing to give up for 17i?

No, 17(i) additional language was added. I presume that you got the changes being a steward.

And no, no one's whipping anyone up into hysteria down here.

I try to convey the whole picture to you and you seem to magnify issues that make people seem unintelligent and emotional freaks. This is a total waste of time.