Another Nut With A Gun Goes On A Rampage

[klein]

So, that's the blame now, low law enforcement rates in Alaska , that are actually over 10 times as much in neighboring Yukon.
Must be the same low enforcement numbers in the continental USA, that the murder rate is the highest among western countries.

Poor Canada, all we have is RCMP and city police. 2 forces for the entire country (mind you, Ontario has it's own provincial police ).

Yet, lower crime rates, and definitly much lower gun related deaths.
You'ld think it would be the opposite, eh ?

So, I guess your right, must be all the booze and drugs Americans are consuming, while having a gun ready loaded ?

 

[tourists24]

So, that's the blame now, low law enforcement rates in Alaska , that are actually over 10 times as much in neighboring Yukon.
Must be the same low enforcement numbers in the continental USA, that the murder rate is the highest among western countries.

Poor Canada, all we have is RCMP and city police. 2 forces for the entire country (mind you, Ontario has it's own provincial police ).

Yet, lower crime rates, and definitly much lower gun related deaths.
You'ld think it would be the opposite, eh ?

So, I guess your right, must be all the booze and drugs Americans are consuming, while having a gun ready loaded ?

If it keeps you in Canada.... sure.... thank you.

 

[The Other Side]

Begs to question though TOS. What would you do if your are attacked or your life gets put on the line. I understand you dont live in fear, but there is a real chance that at some point you may have to defend yourself. You just let the perp have his/her way?

What tourist, in your hypothetical, self defense can range from logic to physical reactions. Its depends on the situation. I find that in my 51 years, I have not encountered a situation that remotely comes close to placing my life in jeopardy.

We all make choices, and if anyone dares entering a dangerous place like compton, and encounters one of thousands with a gun, I guess arming yourself in preparation would have been the better practice. THere, if confronted, the "epic gun" battle would happen and the person who would make this choice could consider himself safe by the preparation of carrying a gun.

Living in fear of my fellow citizens is just something I reject as a concept.

I dont fear minorities, i chose to believe that all people want to be respected and if I respect them on the street they will not bother me.

So far, works like a charm.

Peace.

 

[trplnkl]

Sober,

First of all, I labeled no one. If you included yourself into one segment of my post, then you attributed yourself to that particular segment.

When you said "...most gun owners are just plain wierdos who stockpile weapons for the great domestic apocolypse that they are told is coming..", you most certainly labeled most gun owners. and you did so with little to no proof, just your opinion.

I know plenty of sport shooters and in fact, one of my best friends runs a gun repair business. In my area, there are NO hunters as there is NO place to hunt.
As Moreluck point out, most hunters don't hunt in their own back yard. I bet you would be surprised at the number of people in your gated community that hold hunting licenses.

Of all the people that I know with guns, the majority have stockpiles of handguns and rifles and shotguns. The constant argument coming from them is the same as I have heard on this board.
Are they all weirdos waiting on the apocalypse?

Self protection. Even in a town like mine where you never hear of a burgulary where people were awakened by an intruder, those with guns make the same claim that they would shoot the intruder.
You actually believe that no, none, nada burglaries happen in your town or you just don't hear about them? Why have a gun if you are not willing to use it on an intruder to protect yourself and your family?

I even have a UPS on road supervisor who makes claim that he has a gun at every window, at every door, under his pillow and in his kitchen. We make fun of him constantly for his over reaction to self defense.
I agree that's a bit over the top in self defense. I see that being rude to other people isn't just an online thing for you.

Why live in that kind of fear? Who is he afraid of? Why not just move to a place where this kind of fear doesnt exist?
Again, I do not live in fear, I am prepared if I ever should have to defend self and family.

If I had to live in a place where I had to "plan" on fighting an intruder with a gun because where I lived was a commonplace for this type of activity, I would simply pick up my family and move to a safer neighborhood.
That's fine for you, but not everyone can afford to pickup and move.

As I have said many times, I DONT LIVE IN FEAR. I wont pretend to defend myself with guns so in the event that a criminal will choose my home to rob I will be prepared.
I hope that you can live the rest of your life and never have to face an intruder in your home.

Prevention would be my first choice. Alarms, locks and home security would be my first priority. This is a wiser investment versus a gun battle.
Of course prevention is the first choice, DUH, but it isn't the last or only choice.. However, when a criminal sets off you alarm by kicking in your locked door, the cops may not get there in time to save your life.

If I had to live in a bunker to feel safe, then am I really safe?
Didn't you say you lived in a gated community? Probably complete with private security guards (AKA rent-a-cops), double or triple locks and an alarm wired to every door and window. Sounds a little like a bunker minus guns. And you say your aren't afraid? Then why all the above?

The concept that I would be safer because I have guns in my home is something I reject.
And the concept that living in a gated community makes you safe is something I reject.

Living in fear isnt something I accept as a lifestyle. I reject that concept.
You have already accepted the concept.

As I said, if you want guns for sport shooting or to hunt for something to eat then I support the use. If you want guns because you chose to live in an area where you feel unsafe, and you are anticipating an epic gun battle with an intruder then you might be facing a situation like this:

[video=youtube;ZqMsqzD86J4]

Since the stats dictate that most people are murdered by someone they know and this guys "buddy" had been kicked out of the house for suspicion of theft and had a tire iron in his hand, it would be logical that the intruder had something more on his mind than a late night snack.

http://kissmeimabbw.newsvine.com/_n...ce-whittier-man-mistakenly-shoots-kills-niece
Just a few lines of the story is available, so unless you are a physcic you nor I know anymore details. There's many scenarios that could justify the use of the firearm. You don't know the details, just reacting to the first line of the story.

"Detectives are treating the incident as an accidental shooting and no charges will be filed, according to officials."

Accidents do happen, is that the fault of the gun? Is this hunter a obsessive gun nut gone off the deep end?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...istakenly-shoots-wife-during-sex-1053524.html

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/breaking/6539905.html

These are the more common types of gun incidents rather than "epic gun" battles with intruders.

I guarantee you that in each of these cases, not one of them would qualify mentally to own a gun, yet they have them .....for protection.
So now you are a certified shrink that can diagnose people from a story in the newspaper?

Where i am, I have laughed at those I know personally when they give me the business about protection.. Glad to see you are consistently rude, Now I won't take it so personally.We live in a gated community with roving guards on patrol in cars. So do people in prisons.

Almost every home here as a security system on the grounds so stockpiling guns for as protection is ridiculous at best.
No one has said YOU should own even one gun, much less stockpile them.

But heck, if you all live in places where this is a necessary part of your lives (to live in constant fear) then who am I to stop you.
As I have said many times, I don't live in fear I am prepared for the unknown. I still believe that your gated community is as much a fear factor as you claim my guns to be.

We all chose where we live.
Not all people have that opportunity and you dang well know it.

Peace.
Disingenuous
Here's a few links you left out.
Gated communities are safe huh"
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20...ted-communities-parkland-officials-burglaries

http://privateofficerbreakingnews.blogspot.com/2007/12/gated-community-questions-security.html

http://www.bradenton.com/2010/11/25/2765974/ellenton-home-invasion-ends-with.html

 

[moreluck]

Seems like there's a lot of crime to me...........

http://www.spotcrime.com/ca/irvine

 

[cachsux]

So, that's the blame now, low law enforcement rates in Alaska , that are actually over 10 times as much in neighboring Yukon.
Must be the same low enforcement numbers in the continental USA, that the murder rate is the highest among western countries.

Poor Canada, all we have is RCMP and city police. 2 forces for the entire country (mind you, Ontario has it's own provincial police ).

Yet, lower crime rates, and definitly much lower gun related deaths.
You'ld think it would be the opposite, eh ?

So, I guess your right, must be all the booze and drugs Americans are consuming, while having a gun ready loaded ?

We all chipped in and got you a present for your next visit.

 

[over9five]

Someone already mentioned the doctor living in his beautiful crime free neighborhood.

If only he or his wife had been carrying a gun, maybe the mom wouldn't have been strangled. Maybe the 11 year old girl wouldn't have been raped. Maybe both girls wouldn't have been tied to their beds and set on fire to die horrible deaths.

I bet that doctor regrets every minute of every day that he couldn't have killed those two thugs before they slaughtered his family.

 

[klein]

I don't know the full story, maybe he did have a gun at home, maybe he even had a phone at home, and even a few cell phones, yet , no one had the time to dial 3 simple numbers.

But, then, again, maybe they were sleeping ?

 

[moreluck]

I don't know the full story, maybe he did have a gun at home, maybe he even had a phone at home, and even a few cell phones, yet , no one had the time to dial 3 simple numbers.

But, then, again, maybe they were sleeping ?

Here's an idea....look up the story and read all about it !!!

 

[tourists24]

Thats exactly why I like being able to have an insurance policy.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Thats exactly why I like being able to have an insurance policy.

There have been far too many instances where the self-insured have been killed before they have been able to access their policies.

 

[tourists24]

There have been far too many instances where the self-insured have been killed before they have been able to access their policies.

ah but the glass is half full. There are also many cases where the good guy wins. Without a gun you have zero say so in the matter. At least with one you have a chance

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

ah but the glass is half full. There are also many cases where the good guy wins. Without a gun you have zero say so in the matter. At least with one you have a chance

Each situation is unique--what about the service member who, while on leave, was at the bank with his two young children and was able to apprehend a would-be bank robber without benefit of a firearm?

I am not a gun person. My family has been the victim of a gun-related tragedy. Ironically I received the marksman award while in the service. I know how to use a gun--I just choose not to own and/or use one.

 

[tourists24]

Each situation is unique--what about the service member who, while on leave, was at the bank with his two young children and was able to apprehend a would-be bank robber without benefit of a firearm?

I am not a gun person. My family has been the victim of a gun-related tragedy. Ironically I received the marksman award while in the service. I know how to use a gun--I just choose not to own and/or use one.

Nothing at all wrong with that either. I simply like having that choice. I have had a gun pointed at me. It changed my view. I was at their mercy had they decided to pull that trigger.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Nothing at all wrong with that either. I simply like having that choice. I have had a gun pointed at me. It changed my view. I was at their mercy had they decided to pull that trigger.

That would definitely make me rethink my position as well.

 

[The Other Side]

Nothing at all wrong with that either. I simply like having that choice. I have had a gun pointed at me. It changed my view. I was at their mercy had they decided to pull that trigger.

The only problem with this (and I understand how something like this may change your mind) is that the odds of this happening twice in your lifetime is pretty remote. Even police officers who are employed to protect society and armed with handguns and shotguns rarely EVER fire a shot during their entire career.

By percentage, the majority of police officers NEVER EVER fire a single shot in a 25 year career. Even those in the LAPD. They have had guns pointed at them, yet, they rarely fire a single shot.

During their careers, batons, gas and physical apprehension are the means to handle criminals.

Indeed, I can imagine how you felt looking at a weapon pointed at you, but uinless you are living or visiting someplace where this is commonplace, the odds are against this happening twice in your lifetime.

As i said, if you chose to have a gun for protection, then thats your choice, just dont stock pile guns and leave them out for your children to get a hold of, or use it on your wife/girlfriend in a domestic dispute, or shoot someone just for upsetting you. This is the most common use for handguns in this country.

Not saying you will, just saying.

Peace.

 

[trplnkl]

As i said, if you chose to have a gun for protection, then thats your choice, just dont stock pile guns and leave them out for your children to get a hold of, or use it on your wife/girlfriend in a domestic dispute, or shoot someone just for upsetting you. This is the most common use for handguns in this country.

Not saying you will, just saying.

Peace.

Another opinion ?

 

[Babagounj]

Whistleblower ATF agents have made it clear as to the motive for the illegal scheme that has created an 'international incident' between the U.S. Government and the Government of Mexico. The agents themselves are adamant that their supervisors planned the scheme in order to pad statistics that would show U.S. guns are fueling the drug cartels, that the U.S. has a major problem with lax gun laws, and then provide an impetus for the Obama Administration and other gun control advocates to hype up anti-gun hysteria — all in support of another round of restrictive gun laws.​

But there is a much more sinister motive at play.​

Mike Vanderboegh, who, along with David Codrea, first broke the story of this sordid scheme, reports today that the media is willing to roll out any theory as plausible, except for the one the agents themselves say is the correct one. In fact, one writer referred to the agents' story as a 'tin foil hat' theory.​

As noted in Vanderboegh's response the motive was not only about padding statistics. The ATF needed stacks of Mexican bodies lying next to the weapons that came from the U.S.​

And that is precisely what they got. A total of 28,000 Mexicans have been murdered in the drug wars over the last few years. Stacks of bodies have, indeed, been found near the border and in small towns nearby. U.S. guns have, indeed, been linked to many of these killings, and one was used to kill a U.S. Border Patrol agent, Brian Terry, last year.

CBS News has learned that the recent case of a Mexican military helicopter forced to land after it was fired upon is linked to the ATF Fast and Furious "gunwalker" operation.​

Drug cartel suspects on the ground shot at Mexican government helicopters two weeks ago in western Mexico, forcing one chopper to land. Authorities seized more than 70 assault rifles and other weapons from the suspects.​

Among the seized weapons are guns sold to suspects as part of the ATF sting operation, sources say. That information came from traces of serial numbers.​

"Shooting at an aircraft is a terrorist act," says one U.S. law enforcement source. "What does that say if we're helping Mexican drug cartels engage in acts of terror? That's appalling if we could have stopped those guns."
http://www.moonbattery.com/
​

 

[Babagounj]

150 Mexicans Died from Guns Obama’s BATF Supplied to Narco-Terrorists


Justice Officials in ‘Panic Mode’ as Hearing Nears on Failed Anti-Gun Trafficking Program

By William La Jeunesse
Officials at the Department of Justice are in “panic mode,” according to multiple sources, as word spreads that congressional testimony next week will paint a bleak and humiliating picture of Operation Fast and Furious, the botched undercover operation that left a trail of blood from Mexico to Washington, D.C.
The operation was supposed to stem the flow of weapons from the U.S. to Mexico by allowing so-called straw buyers to purchase guns legally in the U.S. and later sell them in Mexico, usually to drug cartels.
Instead, ATF documents show that the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms knowingly and deliberately flooded Mexico with assault rifles. Their intent was to expose the entire smuggling organization, from top to bottom, but the operation spun out of control and supervisors refused pleas from field agents to stop it.
Only after Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry died did ATF Agent John Dodson blow the whistle and expose the scandal.
“What people don’t understand is how long we will be dealing with this,” Dodson told Fox News back in March. “Those guns are gone. You can’t just give the order and get them back. There is no telling how many crimes will be committed before we retrieve them.”
But now the casualties are coming in.
Mexican officials estimate 150 of their people have been shot by Fast and Furious guns. Police have recovered roughly 700 guns at crime scenes, 250 in the U.S. and the rest in Mexico, including five AK-47s found at a cartel warehouse in Juarez last month.

 

[soberups]

As i said, if you chose to have a gun for protection, then thats your choice, just dont stock pile guns and leave them out for your children to get a hold of, or use it on your wife/girlfriend in a domestic dispute, or shoot someone just for upsetting you. This is the most common use for handguns in this country..

Yet another ignorant, bigoted stereotype.

Over 150 million U.S. gun owners didnt shoot anyone today. And they wont tomorrow, either.

You are opposed to the "stockpiling" of guns. Please define "stockpile". Please explain what criterion you would use to determine the arbitrary number of guns that a person should be limited to and why exceeding that number makes that person dangerous.

Its OK to not like guns. Its OK to not own one, and its OK to fear them and think that they are icky and yucky and scary. But its not OK to use your fears and predjudices as justification for infringing upon someone elses rights.