anyone get to ride with a security guard??

[trplnkl]

Ahh! YES! This has worked well for Armored Carriers such as Loomis and Wells Fargo! They carry shotguns and still get shot up!!!

Once the word got around.....
As soon as the criminals knew you carried a weapon, you would have a big target on your back. UPS drivers would become the trophy's of the gang and criminal population!

Tell me, is it really that far fetched?? !!

How often do they get robbed?

 

[UPS Lifer]

Oh - I don't know.... I see a blurb in the paper once in awhile. I know this would not be a reason I would want to be in the paper! LOL - Once to me is too many!

I knew 2 UPS supervisors who were also Pasadena cops and had permits to carry weapons and badges. Both of these supervisors were told flat out not to bring any weapon on UPS property. If they did they would lose their jobs!

So - it will be a cold day in hell before UPS allows any driver to carry a weapon.

 

[trplnkl]

Oh - I don't know.... I see a blurb in the paper once in awhile. I know this would not be a reason I would want to be in the paper! LOL - Once to me is too many!

I knew 2 UPS supervisors who were also Pasadena cops and had permits to carry weapons and badges. Both of these supervisors were told flat out not to bring any weapon on UPS property. If they did they would lose their jobs!

So - it will be a cold day in hell before UPS allows any driver to carry a weapon.

OH, I understand that and don't disagree. Even if UPS allowed drivers to "carry" I probably would not. But then I do not deliver any areas such as Tooner. The problem for someone to be in Tooner's area and Packin' heat would be a situation of still being out numbered.
My point in asking was to point out that while armored car drivers are shot at, sometimes killed, the frequency of being robbed would more than likely be multiplied exponentially if it was public knowledge that they were unarmed.

 

[UPS Lifer]

OH, I understand that and don't disagree. Even if UPS allowed drivers to "carry" I probably would not. But then I do not deliver any areas such as Tooner. The problem for someone to be in Tooner's area and Packin' heat would be a situation of still being out numbered.
My point in asking was to point out that while armored car drivers are shot at, sometimes killed, the frequency of being robbed would more than likely be multiplied exponentially if it was public knowledge that they were unarmed.

We have no beef... I agree with your post entirely.

As a manager, I would have a major problem putting one of my drivers in harm's way on a daily basis. I personally would not want to be in that situation so I could not reasonably expect one of my drivers to do it.

My solution would be to get with the union and the driver and find out what concerns they had and hammer out a solution that will satisfy the driver, UPS, the customer and any union concerns by order of importance taking into consideration the driver first and foremost.

If I met resistance (UPS)...
I would not manage a center where I could not reasonably protect my employees. I would go on record and asked to be transferred and state the reason why. The company would not take this on because of public ramifications such as undo press and labor practices. I would make my point with upper management in a very tactful way while inferring a hell storm to follow.

 

[trplnkl]

<snip>
If I met resistance (UPS)...<snip>
I would make my point with upper management in a very tactful way while inferring a hell storm to follow.

Seeeee, that's why many of us hourlies want UPS to clone you and send them (the clones) across the country to manage centers.

 

[toonertoo]

Seeeee, that's why many of us hourlies want UPS to clone you and send them (the clones) across the country to manage centers.

A big Amen to that.

 

[UPS Lifer]

When you work hard to do the right thing, you have a pretty solid foundation under you. The trick is to learn how to keep everything in balance which promotes harmony. It just means working on a solution rather than putting a band-aid on it, thinking it will go away.

New managers sometimes have a very narrow focus. They are learning the job and trying to prove themselves constantly. This may cause a loss of focus as well. I went through this as a newby as well.

Sometimes there is a three prong process to put things in balance. It requires involvement with the driver, the company, and the union to find the best solution to fix issues. This process works as a conduit to provide a harmonious and balanced solution. Managers have to really listen and then their actions show how they applied those listening skills. After which, trust starts to develop and then the manager can talk and someone will actually listen to him or her!

 

[soberups]

Sober, just curious, what good would have a gun done him in that situation? It would have gotten him killed that much quicker.

Well, they ran up to the truck while it was stuck in traffic and unable to move. They jumped up on the running board, forced the door open and dragged the guy out. He couldnt run and he had no weapon to defend himself with.
Had this been me, in my personal vehicle, the first guy to force my door open would have gotten a 9 millimeter lobotomy. I suspect that this might have "discouraged" his gang-banger buddies from continuing their attack. If not...I would have 16 more rounds on tap and available for them to enjoy too.
To say that he would have been killed even "quicker" by having the means to defend himself is absurd. Criminals prefer unarmed victims.

 

[brownrodster]

Does anyone else remember that white truck driver who, for whatever reason, decided to try his luck and drove down one of the streets which was within the riot area in LA? They pulled him out of the cab, beat the crap out of him (with the fire extinguisher from his vehicle) and laughed the whole time they were doing it. I believe his name was Reginald Denny. Sober, just curious, what good would have a gun done him in that situation? It would have gotten him killed that much quicker.

He survived. No one killed him. They beat the crap out of him, threw bricks at his head and left him.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Well, they ran up to the truck while it was stuck in traffic and unable to move. They jumped up on the running board, forced the door open and dragged the guy out. He couldnt run and he had no weapon to defend himself with.
Had this been me, in my personal vehicle, the first guy to force my door open would have gotten a 9 millimeter lobotomy. I suspect that this might have "discouraged" his gang-banger buddies from continuing their attack. If not...I would have 16 more rounds on tap and available for them to enjoy too.
To say that he would have been killed even "quicker" by having the means to defend himself is absurd. Criminals prefer unarmed victims.

I was in LA during the time of the riots. IF my memory serves me right, the truck driver was stopped at a light and was then surrounded by rioters.
If it were me, I would have put my foot on the gas and kept going until there was nobody hanging on the truck! No gun necessary!!!

Hypothetically, if it had been a UPS vehicle - I doubt anything like that would have ensued. Some how we are associated with the government and we provide a needed service to the community and we are accepted for that. Back in '73, I delivered to Jordan High School as it was getting out. This school is located right in the heart of Watts on 103rd Street LA. I was not fearful (because I was naive or stupid, either one works!)

Anyway my point is you shouldn't feel that you need additional security or a gun to be a UPS delivery driver. The key to your safety is to always be aware of your surroundings

I do understand that in rare circumstances you may feel you like you are in harm's way. If you ever feel that your safety is in jeopardy don't risk your safety. due to the nature of the business, some areas may have a higher risk with more valuable deliveries. UPS Security should evaluate those areas and determine the risk assessment and the delivery process such as additional security guards or will call, etc.

 

[soberups]

If you ever feel that your safety is in jeopardy don't risk your safety. due to the nature of the business, some areas may have a higher risk with more valuable deliveries. UPS Security should evaluate those areas and determine the risk assessment and the delivery process such as additional security guards or will call, etc.

UPS Security....you mean the same outfit that hired the unarmed, minimum-wage mouth breathers to sit in our guard shack and watch the defective metal detector beep every time the door opens? Gee, I feel safer already.

 

[UPS Lifer]

UPS Security....you mean the same outfit that hired the unarmed, minimum-wage mouth breathers to sit in our guard shack and watch the defective metal detector beep every time the door opens? Gee, I feel safer already.

No matter what the circumstances would be if you pull that gun out and use it while working for UPS you will be out of a job and probably in jail!

.... You may avoid jail if you live here in Arizona. It is still the Wild West out here! LOL!

 

[looper804]

UPS Security....you mean the same outfit that hired the unarmed, minimum-wage mouth breathers to sit in our guard shack and watch the defective metal detector beep every time the door opens? Gee, I feel safer already.

Those aren't the security guards that make the evaluations.The real ones are called "vendors" and are mostly off duty or retired police.

 

[soberups]

No matter what the circumstances would be if you pull that gun out and use it while working for UPS you will be out of a job and probably in jail!

.... You may avoid jail if you live here in Arizona. It is still the Wild West out here! LOL!

I guess it would boil down to whether or not a person valued their job more than their life.
I choose to obey UPS's no-weapons policy because I deliver in a relatively safe area and the odds of me needing a weapon are low enough that the risk is worth it. If I delivered in a high-crime area, I might choose differently. UPS's policy on weapons is designed to shield the company from liability, not to keep its drivers safe. UPS would rather see a dead driver than a wounded criminal who might file a lawsuit.
As far as going to jail is concerned, it has nothing to do with being in the "Wild West"....self-defense is self-defense and one has the legal right to use lethal force in defense of one's life. I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

 

[Mike Hawk]

To play the devils advocate, what if you gunned down some gangster trying to rob you, and the next day that gang shoots some other UPS driver in retaliation. Or, his brother orders something UPS and waits for you to walk up to his house, and blows your head off. I agree this company is not worth my life, but gunning down a criminal that may just hurt you not kill you, could end up ending your life or some innocent UPSers. Just food for thought.

 

[UPS Lifer]

I guess it would boil down to whether or not a person valued their job more than their life.
I choose to obey UPS's no-weapons policy because I deliver in a relatively safe area and the odds of me needing a weapon are low enough that the risk is worth it. If I delivered in a high-crime area, I might choose differently. UPS's policy on weapons is designed to shield the company from liability, not to keep its drivers safe. UPS would rather see a dead driver than a wounded criminal who might file a lawsuit.
As far as going to jail is concerned, it has nothing to do with being in the "Wild West"....self-defense is self-defense and one has the legal right to use lethal force in defense of one's life. I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.

Your cliches are real cool.... You will be able to think of a whole lot more when you are sitting behind bars waiting for trial.... in most states. Anymore, you might be arrested if someone breaks into your house and you shoot them!

It is interesting that you say you "choose to obey UPS no weapon policy"!!!! It is almost like you really believe you have a right to carry a gun while in the employ of UPS!

I certainly believe in the 2nd Amendment but it does not mean you have a right to protect yourself with a gun while working at UPS. This is getting to sound like the tattoo thread. Next thing I know you will be quoting something about the Supreme Court!

 

[soberups]

Anymore, you might be arrested if someone breaks into your house and you shoot them!

You should do some legal research before you make incorrect assumptions. Part of the certification I recieved for my concealed weapon permit was to know and understand the laws pertaining to legal self-defense.

It is interesting that you say you "choose to obey UPS no weapon policy"!!!! It is almost like you really believe you have a right to carry a gun while in the employ of UPS!

UPS certainly has the right under the law to maintain a no-weapons policy at the workplace, and I accept it even if I dont agree with it. What that means...is that if I choose to break that rule, I would be facing termination of my employment. In my case, I choose to obey the policy. It is up the individual to decide for himself whether or not to obey a policy that could get him killed. There was a Pizza Hut driver recently who shot and killed a would-be robber. He had a carry permit for the gun, and the shooting was ruled justifiable, but Pizza Hut fired him anyway for violating company policy. He made a choice...that his $10 an hour job wasnt worth risking being unarmed for, and he is alive today because he made that choice. Jobs can be replaced, lives cannot.

 

[UPS Lifer]

You are absolutely right on the matter of choice.
But there is a cynical side to many of your posts...

I guess my only beef is your remark about a "It is up to the driver... not to obey a policy that could get him killed."
In your previous post you also state that UPS is only concerned with liability and not the safety of the driver. Being concerned with liability is being concerned for the safety of the driver and also the general public. Though the lawyers in the company will certainly recommend a course of action to the management committee based on their fiduciary responsibilities to the stockholders, there is definitely other reasons that policies, procedures and unwritten guidelines are invoked.

As a manager, the safety of my employees was more important than some liability. A cynic might see it in a different light and say the only reason I am doing that is to protect the company.

UPS has a responsibility to the general public and letting you carry a gun puts the safety of other employees as well as the general public and yourself in harm's way.

When you get to the point that you feel it is necessary to have a gun with you at work for your own personal safety, I would recommend that you leave UPS and get a job as a law enforcement officer in the community you feel is not protecting you safely.