APWA ???

[roadking]

I feel like there is a risk if we as a group changed unions. would it hold together? what experiece do they have against big business. could this bring ups the opportunity down the road to go non-union. devidiing the people weakens their voice. imo

I believe the APWA will bring more solidarity, 1 contract, 1 pension for everyone, represented by people who have walked in your shoes, our current union divides as much as UPS does, we are keep in the dark and are not consulted about how we feel because they are arrogant and think we work for them (and in a sense we do, our efforts and money serve them well) I employ them to represent me, they have failed on one of the most important issues, my future, my ability to enjoy my retirement years that earned and intrusted them with. I will not stand by without a fight while someone tells me sorry you have to work an additional 7yrs. Plus you cannot work unless we approve it, whose money, whose live is it. I do not need that kind of representation Thank you, if we looked at the IBT as financial planners I'm sure we would all fire them tommorow!!!

 

[roadking]

One thing that I can't figure out from their website is what about someone in my situation. If you have twenty plus years vested in Central States, then somehow the IBT got decertified, what happens to all my Pension Credits? The APWA isn't going to have the money to pay me a full pension in a few years, and CS will surely go belly up right away. I see that the IBT is going to be under pressure because of the CS issue, and thats because of the APWA. No way will CS give any of its assets to another Pension Plan.

those credits are yours,your agreement with CS stays intact (at the proper age you would get your benefit from CS) for every 5yrs under the new pension you would recieve 1000.00 per month. The lawyers have told us that we have a right to the money dating back to 1993 (340,000 est.) since retirement funds are the issue the IBT cannot tie it up in court for more than 3yrs. From day one that the APWA takes over the first order of business will be to go after those funds (APWA=US not them or those guys it is us)

 

[roadking]

Does anyone remember after last contract how we were told we had the best contract ever. Then soon afterwords they started the no 25/30 out and 62 years of age. Insurance at 57 minus your penalties $1000 + per couple per month. Red zone article where they can reduce after your supposebly locked in retired amount. Thats in the works. Central States wants to ok where you can work once you retire and decide where to suspend but New York has no restrictions other than working for UPS. Not everyone wants to do 40 + years here ! The union is treating people like they cannot think for themselves. Thats the way they want it can you not see this ? Package car workers at the company pace are good for about 20 years before the body is breaking down ! The union just took 9-12 delegates to Las Vegas for the convention at $400 a day compensenation per the union and Ups is covering there wages too since its Union Duties ? Ft. Lauderdale,FLa building has over 200 grievences not taken care of but off to Vegas ? Central States refuses to disclose the assets so we know if they if we are ok or going to go in to receivership of the government at $1000 a month. Government does not want to touch this. There is more than likely no reform - they know what the problem is ! I have no clue how many are retired at ups. Down in the south its very few people. And as the teamsters sit back and say everything is good ! Thats why APWA is gaining momentum because of all said discrepancies. The Union & Company is making it harder to retire if at all. Most the package car guys i know are leaving to go work some place else because of this. Signed mismanaged by Hoffa !

GREAT POST!!!!!!

 

[wildgoose]

GREAT POST!!!!!!

Thanks Roadking !

 

[Just Lurking]

more money, better working conditions, less time waiting on a full time job!!!! go to web site request a meeting... did I mention union dues will remain the same for the first six months then be reduced by fifty percent. Plus part time people know if the current course is not changed their raises and pension dollars will be going to support those who retire before them. It is not suppose to work like social security, the young should not have to carry the burden of past generations!!!!

I attended a meeting.

They said that they would get at least 10 percent return from financial company for a fee of 1/2 percent. If that financial company could not provide a 10.5 percent return, they would transfer the pension money to another financial company that would. In reality, the same compounding factor that they count on to the upside would have just has drastic downside
reult on a less than 10 percent return (noy counting a negative return)

more money, better working conditions, less time waiting on a full time job!!!! - can I have ice cream too.

So much pie in the sky dreaming is nice but more realistic goals would bring more support to the APWA.

 

[wildgoose]

When Central States showed up at the building to explain what are benifits would be at now,57,62 and 65. I knew changes were needed. I am not wanting to look at things unrealistic. But the Lady told that there were no improvements slated for the next 20 years ! No cola and thats not a drink. I just would like some stability. The cops in Miami that pulled out of the union and received their $ per sueing are by far so much better off then they ever thought. Their fund has produced so much that they receive an extra check at the end of each year. Insurance is superior to what they had. Fireman have a much better retirement than ups and they make less money than us go figure ! Western states made $ when all the funds were sliding for the 3 years of bad stocks. It just goes to show it can be done. Furthermore i would prefer to be on and even slate with the rest of my Hourly Ups Family. Everyone deserves all of the $ the company puts to the fund. Not part of it !!!!!!!!

 

[mittam]

over9five- Hoffa(current union president) didn't start this union, he simply leads it. Besides, this isn't my only reason for not supporting the APWA, just an example.

30andout- LOL, you disagree? The writing is right there in plain black and white. If you disagree with that then you are obviously a total idiot, and don't need to be preaching the APWA gospel to anyone.

its funny to hear you say hoffa is leading the ibt he couldn't lead if he tried, now he wants to start early talks , either to save his own ass and salary or to sell us on down the river, I know the guys from n.c. starting the APWA and they are great guys, I have seen more qaulity traits in them than hoffa could ever display..... remember with hoffa it's his salary or your soul being sold to the devil... you think he will give himself up? or give up the well being of UPS workers ... let's see your call on that

 

[mittam]

Back to the main point. Has anyone who likes the idea or been to a "meeting" given $$ to this cause. I don't think the APWA could really get me $7k/month, but I'd take $5k/month with a real 30 and out. Seems to be a lot better than what I have now with (CS).

yes i have joined didn't take me long to figure out 2 guys with good profesionals behind them and the resolve to make things better for all,I have been to Lex.Ky. to Knoxville,TN 2 times Springboro,Oh and Lima,Oh. these guys are for real but let me tell you what made up my mind, I started at34 yrs old pt at 40 got ft if I retire at 58 I will have $1050 per month pension,I had a financial advisor take the $190 per week(before it went to $222) and figure the percentage rates and see what I would have that came out to $460,000 if I invested on my own or 46,000 per year takiung 10% the ibt or central states say I can only get 12,000 per year, an ibt bus.agent told me too bad we can't take care of everyone, maybe not but give me what my company puts in for me, oh after paying ins. I have no pension left it is easy for me tosay APWA is only way to go I have nothing to loose, Everyone else only have something to gain

 

[Just Lurking]

...I had a financial advisor take the $190 per week(before it went to $222) and figure the percentage rates and see what I would have that came out to $460,000 if I invested on my own or 46,000 per year takiung 10% ...

The return percentage would be 10 percent @ $190 weekly compounded over 18 years. Two scenarios 1. If you do not get 10 percent every year your will not get that amount. An 8 percent return knocks $96000 of that amount (still good though). But lets say that you retire with that $460000. What happens when you withdraw 10 percent and the return is less than 10 percent you are eating principal. Let alone get a negative return which would spiral it down even faster.

If you are wanting to retire around age 60 or so, you need to plan on living for another 20-30 years. In that time, there will be atleast one bear market if not more. What would you do has 70 or 75 year old person with no money - go back to work?

The plan is solid as long as every single possibilty works in your favor. Under CSPF (which i'm a member for insurance but not pension), we know this is not the case.

I have met both men and believe that they along with us know that know CS is trouble. I just have problems with the way that they are presenting their solution.

 

[Uncle BS]

Guys, the money is easy to explain. Before the changes, we were getting $3000 at 30 years of service. UPS did a study and they concluded that we, full-time employees, only receive 40% of what UPS puts into the fund for us. 60% goes to the other crafts and those that have gone belly up. Now, I am just a simple country boy, but, using that $3000, double that which makes $6000 and 80% another half of the $3000 is $1500 which totals out to $7500 at 100% of the contributions that uncle buster puts in for us.
Now as for the rest of the story, what is more important to most of you? As for me, it is my family. The APWA is all about family. When I pass away, hopefully not soon, my wife will continue to draw what I have in my fund, until she dies or remarries. At that point, my children will get a lump sum payment, minus 10% which goes to help other UPSers that have had to retire early because of medical reasons to have a pension, of what is left in my fund.
We all know, how are best interest are not being looked after by the IBT. We all know that the CS fund is in bad shape. Where do you think it is headed, even if we stay in? We all have to make that decision for ourselves! You know what Hoffa's track record is. I know Van and Danny. I have my trust with them. I is time for a change. And remember, the pilots did the same thing years ago. I can and will been done here.

 

[roadking]

You da man uncle BS, I wish I would of said that!!!!!

 

[mittam]

30andout- I've read the website, I know their claims. I've done my research, and I know enough to not support the APWA. If I wanted to be fed a bunch of BS I can go talk to any UPS manager.

or yourself the way it sounds,

 

[mittam]

Back to the main point. Has anyone who likes the idea or been to a "meeting" given $$ to this cause. I don't think the APWA could really get me $7k/month, but I'd take $5k/month with a real 30 and out. Seems to be a lot better than what I have now with (CS).

I work in Ohio, when all this started I was given a pension declaration from one of our mechanics, he and I have been friends for quite a few years before all this, his pension having the same time as me is $7,000 a month he started at 40 years old and will retire at 62 with $7,000 per month I will have $1400 if I make it to 62 or $1,000 if I go when I want at 58

 

[mittam]

We have 25 and out no reduction.

where are you to have that if you are not 62 it doesn't matter how many years you have it is reduced 6% per year before age 62 and if you go before 58 according to the teamsters you cannot get union ins.

 

[Cezanne]

It would be interesting to get a comparsion of the monetary contributions that are going into the IAM mechanics and teamsters run pension or health and welfare plans over the years. From my understanding the mechanics' fund has invested early on with alot of UPS stock in it's portfolio, can well understand the return.

It appears to me that this whole APWA push is for a better retirement, a one issue union, hell with the rest. Reality is that the only negotiating tool that a union would have is the ability to call a nationwide strike if it came down to that. Look at the last contract that the Canadian UPS teamsters settle I believe last year, was there not a threat of the company to pull out of the entire country if the contract was not accepted. What happens in the small state of the right to work North Carolina if UPS uses this tactic to force a issue or settle a contract dispute. It has done this in the past and apparently is willing to use it tomorrow.

I have no love that the way the teamsters' officials have been behaving and handling this pension issue, of course we been lied too. The failure to aquire new participants to the pension and health and welfare plans for years have created this problem, the raises in the benefits after the "97" strike only added to the underfunding. Have said this before that this uproar of the red line provision in the upcoming pension reform bill by the mostly senior teamster members can be considered a grab for the money before the bigger cuts come into play, to hell with the rest of the less seniority members. Greed is a nasty trait and not a good foundation to build or support a union, old or new.

Do not know the details that the company is very interesting in settling this pension problem. The concept of the teamster run pension funds folding appears to a major concern on the federal level, thinking before that happens ALL parties concerned will have to SHARE THE PAIN. A real incentive for this early contract talks. With all the doom and gloom talk about the current pension trouble, people have to realize that this is not in the line of the GM/Dephi or airline industry problem considering the profitablity of UPS over many a year. The money is there it is a matter of getting the best return for both parties.

I believe that a vast majority of the part timers pension and health and welfare plans are controled by UPS already, there are some areas were they are under teamsters' benefit plans, any info into this would be helpful. This is a big issue with the repriocity aggreements with come into play with many of us vested in both company and union plans, last contract failed to address this issue or was settled to prevent a mass exodus of UPS employees from draining the pension funds. Bottom line is that people better start to educate themselves on the issues involved with this issue, still can not believe the misinformation and deception that is going around.

 

[aviationwiz]

This would *NOT* be a good idea, even remotely. It's always best to stand strong, and to stand with a union with expirience.

Just look at one of the more recent rogue unions that stole their membership from another one. The NWA mechanics for AMFA. They got busted open like a paper bag because no one wanted to support them as they were a rogue union. The ones that decided to stick with AMFA on the strike? They are now unemployed.

I don't see any of APWA's stances on anything but the pension plan, with contract talks coming up soon, they should be able to talk about a lot more than the pension plan.

These may be nice guys, but don't play games with your job.

 

[nospinzone]

It appears to me that this whole APWA push is for a better retirement, a one issue union, hell with the rest. Reality is that the only negotiating tool that a union would have is the ability to call a nationwide strike if it came down to that.

To clarify your points, you believe that (1)APWA is only concerned with pension issues and (2) APWA'S ability to call a nationwide strike.

(1) APWA'S main talking point is the pension. That's where the largest mismanagment has occurred thus damaging the most valuable thing that a majority of the employees have: security of retirement. However, at meetings if you ask about their perspective on contract negotiations, Eason and Skillman will tell you first that the contract in place is a pretty strong contract,,,,,but the problem is that the business agents won't enforce it!! They are too busy servicing the other trade companies they represent. Grievances get piled up and never resolved which allows Buster to push you around. Then you get instances where the agent and local won't stand up for the employee like in Florida where the local out-right sold out a member resulting in a wrongful discharge award of $11million. Since APWA business agents would only have to service UPS worksites, there workload would allow them to visit each site on their route once a week to make themselves available to their "customers"===YOU. And as these guys are traveling the country, they are asking people what they would like to see differently in the contract. Your input is crucial.
(2) APWA is going to replace the Teamsters at the national level, and they will represent UPS parcel workers on a national as well as local level. If the membership chooses to strike nationally, APWA would make it happen. Its in their charter. Email them your concerns.

 

[Uncle BS]

The IBT has been playing games with our jobs since Hoffa has been there. I understand everyone's concern, but face it, we have no choice. I take that back, the choice is the APWA. Anyone with a position, with the APWA, will be held accountable to their people... including the President. If you, or a group, or your whole building is not satified with your representation, you voice your concern and actions WILL take place, unlike what we have now. As far as "playing games with jobs" what do you think is going on now? We have people across the country, who are suspended or even loose their jobs, when contract language is in their favor. Uncle Buster is laughing at our representation, or lack there of. Again, as I said before, this is a decision each individual is going to have to make. But before you do, think about your family and their welfare! I know what I am going to do! APWA

 

[brett636]

or yourself the way it sounds,

Oh you brainwashed little fool...explain to me why I should give $150 to an organization that isn't even a legalized union and has not begun the paperwork to become one. Do you see what I am trying to say? They can't do what they say they will because they aren't legally allowed to do so. Even then, NOBODY within the APWA can prove they have any experience negotiating any contract, therefore they want me to give them money to do something they aren't legally allowed to do nor have any experience doing in the first place. As said before playing games with your livlihood isn't smart, and honestly I want to see the pensions abolished altogether and give me a 10% match on my 401k. I can do a lot more with that instead.

 

[mittam]

Oh you brainwashed little fool...explain to me why I should give $150 to an organization that isn't even a legalized union and has not begun the paperwork to become one. Do you see what I am trying to say? They can't do what they say they will because they aren't legally allowed to do so. Even then, NOBODY within the APWA can prove they have any experience negotiating any contract, therefore they want me to give them money to do something they aren't legally allowed to do nor have any experience doing in the first place. As said before playing games with your livlihood isn't smart, and honestly I want to see the pensions abolished altogether and give me a 10% match on my 401k. I can do a lot more with that instead.

a fool is one who looks straight at someone who says we are going to screw you and they do and then you cry because it happened, yes they are legal now if you do not believe so e-mail them and find out