M
muncher
Guest
After posting my thread I noticed not one of you upset full timers can dipute the facts of the case!! ALL HAIL THE MUNCH!!!!
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P
pretender
Guest
"Just remember a penion is not a entitlement, its a bonus when working."
Muncher: The $166 per week that UPS contributes to the pension is my/our money. It is part of my wages--Just as the $150 per week ($75 out of my check and $75 UPS "contribution") that goes to Social Security is part of my wages.
I would not consider that to be an entitlement or a bonus...
Muncher: The $166 per week that UPS contributes to the pension is my/our money. It is part of my wages--Just as the $150 per week ($75 out of my check and $75 UPS "contribution") that goes to Social Security is part of my wages.
I would not consider that to be an entitlement or a bonus...
D
delivryman24
Guest
And another thing muncher, "Just remember a Union run pension plan has much more safegaurds and protection then a company run plan."
Why is it that now all of a sudden a part timer, whose pension plan and insurance WHICH IS ADMINISTERED BY UPS, has better retirement benefits, as well as insurance; than a FULL TIMER. UPS is not paying in nearly as much per part timer as they are for full timers. YOU DO THE MATH. pretender is right, our pension and benefits pkg is negotiated at contract time with our raises. You may see $25 on your pay stub per hour, but it really is more than that.
"I told you guys this was going to get ugly"
Why is it that now all of a sudden a part timer, whose pension plan and insurance WHICH IS ADMINISTERED BY UPS, has better retirement benefits, as well as insurance; than a FULL TIMER. UPS is not paying in nearly as much per part timer as they are for full timers. YOU DO THE MATH. pretender is right, our pension and benefits pkg is negotiated at contract time with our raises. You may see $25 on your pay stub per hour, but it really is more than that.
"I told you guys this was going to get ugly"
B
browndude
Guest
well muncher most other jobs you can work till 57 but do you think i can drive my pkg car till i am 57 when i started when i was 18 and was driving at 21?
N
nevadapaul
Guest
Ah, the Muncher, 27 years old, a preloader, all knowing, my God Munch, you are at the top. When I was 27 I was a manager at UPS!!!
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muncher
Guest
Browndude,
Hey you decided to make UPS a lifelong job, nothing is a sure thing in life, things change and times change. If you retired at 52 and everone else did at the same time, there would be no money left for me. Sorry, your going to have to stick it out to 57.
Hey you decided to make UPS a lifelong job, nothing is a sure thing in life, things change and times change. If you retired at 52 and everone else did at the same time, there would be no money left for me. Sorry, your going to have to stick it out to 57.
D
dammor
Guest
munchy,
Put down the pipe and think about your future.
If things stay the way they are you will be 70 before you can retire. You may feel you are not affected by this, but you just got screwed and don't even realize it. That's sad.....
Put down the pipe and think about your future.
If things stay the way they are you will be 70 before you can retire. You may feel you are not affected by this, but you just got screwed and don't even realize it. That's sad.....
T
tieguy
Guest
i have a feeling he likes getting screwed. Its the only sex he's getting.
F
feederdryver
Guest
Think again before you start pumping out withdrawals and asking the company to take control of your pension.
I'm just as pissed about the new rules as most of you are. I don't see what we had, ever coming back in the future. That's a rare thing.
As much as I hate to say it, but you can kiss rate and job security goodbye if UPS ever takes control of the Teamster pension. That will be the end of our Union.
This is an issue that needs to be fought on an isolated platform against the trustees of Central States. We need to hold them accountable for the
depleted funds that we all thought were there. Poor stock market performance is no excuse, that's just blatant negligence. Enron execs did not get away with it nor should our trustees.
I'm just as pissed about the new rules as most of you are. I don't see what we had, ever coming back in the future. That's a rare thing.
As much as I hate to say it, but you can kiss rate and job security goodbye if UPS ever takes control of the Teamster pension. That will be the end of our Union.
This is an issue that needs to be fought on an isolated platform against the trustees of Central States. We need to hold them accountable for the
depleted funds that we all thought were there. Poor stock market performance is no excuse, that's just blatant negligence. Enron execs did not get away with it nor should our trustees.
U
upsdude
Guest
Enron was/is totally different. Enron offered a 401K plan and REQUIRED the employees to buy Enron stock that had a very inflated value.
W
wkmac
Guest
Speaking of UPS and their position in this whole deal, Hoffa has sent a letter to Eskew accusing the company of trying to pull out of the multi-employer plans via legislative vehicles. This according to a Traffic World article that was sent to me from a fellow union member. I have no link and I won't post the article violating Browncafe Rule so I'm gonna forward the article content itself to Cheryl in the hopes she can obtain and post.
Hoffa accuses UPS of a "direct attack" and "money grab." According to the article UPS is lobbying for legislation that would allow them (UPS) to withdraw from multi-employer pension funds when other companies fail to meet their obligations to the fund. The article states that under the current situation UPS could be exposed to billions in unfunded liabilities if the current crisis is not resolved. In the article they quote
UPS spokesman David Bolger who said "the Teamsters were wrong in saying the company was acting alone and that its goal is to win stronger fiscal footing for its employees' pensions."
Again folks, a warning that I have no link or verification that this article I spoke of is true so until this is confirmed please take this with a grain of salt. Now if true then several thoughts come to mind. UPS is greedy and is gonna hang us out to dry. I myself don't think this is the case. Could it be however that the Teamsters and CS played right into the hand UPS threw out in 97' and for the Teamsters the road dead ends? If UPS is liaible for the billions in unfunded obligations I think it is time for us UPS Teamsters in the CS plan to sit down and learn "ALL" the facts rather than letting emotions or flashy talk by either side drive us. Facts are facts folks, if true those billions heaped on UPS could cripple our company and there is no way in "HAIL" I'll stand quietly by and watch this happen. We gotta see the forest beyond the trees or it could kill us.
I don't think UPS would urge it's way into the legislative process and once out of the multi-employer plan leave us hanging out there with nothing and this is why we really need to learn all the facts we can. UPS is very public now and for them to do this to us in full view of the public what some suggest will happen is at the very least a public relations nightmare for UPS. That too could cripple the company and to top that off would you want 40k to 50k of your employees once covered by CS and who now have nothing coming to work and being your face to the consuming public? IMO management has made some dumb moves but they aren't stupid.
I thought the economic ball we had in 97' over this issue was lost forever but maybe, just maybe, this thing just got thrown back into our court and when I say our I mean the UPS Teamsters. If UPS' obligations are true it might be a huge economic windfall for UPS to give us a pension/healthcare plan that beats the band and still impact very nicely the business plan. And yes it's possible to set up a plan that prohibits a company from dipping into so this issue can be addressed as well. The Teamsters could even get this if they wanted too. Again IMO this is why it is important for every one of us to learn as much facts and details as we call so we can drive this issue going forward but in the best interest of "UPS TEAMSTERS!". At the very least, let's use UPS as a wedge to forever change the CS plan and bring all the laundry out into the light of day and even if we wnd up still under CS maybe we can have a stronger, more profitable and more honest pension plan that employers like UPS would want to contribute to because of it's cost effectiveness.
Lastly, go to those union meeting and speak up and out. It's time we silent UPS Teamsters start speaking up and we're not alone anymore. Don't let only the TDU types drive this unless you're happy with more of the same! JMO.
Hoffa accuses UPS of a "direct attack" and "money grab." According to the article UPS is lobbying for legislation that would allow them (UPS) to withdraw from multi-employer pension funds when other companies fail to meet their obligations to the fund. The article states that under the current situation UPS could be exposed to billions in unfunded liabilities if the current crisis is not resolved. In the article they quote
UPS spokesman David Bolger who said "the Teamsters were wrong in saying the company was acting alone and that its goal is to win stronger fiscal footing for its employees' pensions."
Again folks, a warning that I have no link or verification that this article I spoke of is true so until this is confirmed please take this with a grain of salt. Now if true then several thoughts come to mind. UPS is greedy and is gonna hang us out to dry. I myself don't think this is the case. Could it be however that the Teamsters and CS played right into the hand UPS threw out in 97' and for the Teamsters the road dead ends? If UPS is liaible for the billions in unfunded obligations I think it is time for us UPS Teamsters in the CS plan to sit down and learn "ALL" the facts rather than letting emotions or flashy talk by either side drive us. Facts are facts folks, if true those billions heaped on UPS could cripple our company and there is no way in "HAIL" I'll stand quietly by and watch this happen. We gotta see the forest beyond the trees or it could kill us.
I don't think UPS would urge it's way into the legislative process and once out of the multi-employer plan leave us hanging out there with nothing and this is why we really need to learn all the facts we can. UPS is very public now and for them to do this to us in full view of the public what some suggest will happen is at the very least a public relations nightmare for UPS. That too could cripple the company and to top that off would you want 40k to 50k of your employees once covered by CS and who now have nothing coming to work and being your face to the consuming public? IMO management has made some dumb moves but they aren't stupid.
I thought the economic ball we had in 97' over this issue was lost forever but maybe, just maybe, this thing just got thrown back into our court and when I say our I mean the UPS Teamsters. If UPS' obligations are true it might be a huge economic windfall for UPS to give us a pension/healthcare plan that beats the band and still impact very nicely the business plan. And yes it's possible to set up a plan that prohibits a company from dipping into so this issue can be addressed as well. The Teamsters could even get this if they wanted too. Again IMO this is why it is important for every one of us to learn as much facts and details as we call so we can drive this issue going forward but in the best interest of "UPS TEAMSTERS!". At the very least, let's use UPS as a wedge to forever change the CS plan and bring all the laundry out into the light of day and even if we wnd up still under CS maybe we can have a stronger, more profitable and more honest pension plan that employers like UPS would want to contribute to because of it's cost effectiveness.
Lastly, go to those union meeting and speak up and out. It's time we silent UPS Teamsters start speaking up and we're not alone anymore. Don't let only the TDU types drive this unless you're happy with more of the same! JMO.
R
robonono
Guest
wkmac,
I respect your opinions posted on this web site.
The information that you provided today, which I suspect is true, appears to be UPS attempting to free itself (and its employees) from the obligation of paying for the unfunded pensions of retired non-UPS members of the IBT.
If UPS is forced to continue to foot the bill for other companies that either are bankrupt or who simply fail to fund their employees pension fund properly, it is UPSers (both the company and its employees)who suffer - with less money available for pay, health and welfare benefits.
It is simple math - if UPS spends money paying for other companies pension obligations, that is money that will not be available for UPS to reinvest in the business; nor will it be available for enhancements to the employee benefit package. UPS will continue to foot the bill for the IBT mismanagement, and the non-payment of other companies to the Pension fund.
UPSers will pay this price, we will all suffer as a result.
Others may look for a nefarious motive here, but I see a reputable company (UPS) looking out for its and its employees best interest.
My humble opinion.
I respect your opinions posted on this web site.
The information that you provided today, which I suspect is true, appears to be UPS attempting to free itself (and its employees) from the obligation of paying for the unfunded pensions of retired non-UPS members of the IBT.
If UPS is forced to continue to foot the bill for other companies that either are bankrupt or who simply fail to fund their employees pension fund properly, it is UPSers (both the company and its employees)who suffer - with less money available for pay, health and welfare benefits.
It is simple math - if UPS spends money paying for other companies pension obligations, that is money that will not be available for UPS to reinvest in the business; nor will it be available for enhancements to the employee benefit package. UPS will continue to foot the bill for the IBT mismanagement, and the non-payment of other companies to the Pension fund.
UPSers will pay this price, we will all suffer as a result.
Others may look for a nefarious motive here, but I see a reputable company (UPS) looking out for its and its employees best interest.
My humble opinion.
P
pretender
Guest
wkmac:
I also respect and enjoy reading your opinions--I hope your theory is right!
I also respect and enjoy reading your opinions--I hope your theory is right!
S
speeddemon
Guest
AMEN Tieguy!
E
ezrider
Guest
wkmac,
Thumbs up from me also.Your knack for breaking down wide-ranging issues and explaining it's potential effects in concise context is the right dialouge that can help get members focused on a solution that can work for the company and it's employees and/or shareholders.
I'd also agree that it's imperative for all drivers not to let the facts become tainted by whatever emotions the issue is bound to produce.I don't think it's as simple as throwing out the Teamsters as some seem to suggest.There has to be a better "checks and balance" system than the one that is in place now and we have to make sure BOTH the company and IBT understand that.
Thumbs up from me also.Your knack for breaking down wide-ranging issues and explaining it's potential effects in concise context is the right dialouge that can help get members focused on a solution that can work for the company and it's employees and/or shareholders.
I'd also agree that it's imperative for all drivers not to let the facts become tainted by whatever emotions the issue is bound to produce.I don't think it's as simple as throwing out the Teamsters as some seem to suggest.There has to be a better "checks and balance" system than the one that is in place now and we have to make sure BOTH the company and IBT understand that.
S
sendagain6160
Guest
I expect this issue will be discussed in the very near future by both UPS and the Union.My supt told some of us tonight that it came up in some of the conference calls today,but he would not elaborate.UPS is in in the process of making a lot of changes and they like to have the drivers complete attention.After the meetings this weekend maybe we will know more.
M
muncher
Guest
Here is the bottom line, these cuts were made to insure ALL teamsters have a good pension plan down the road, not just the one's who want to retire at 52 and spend there days at the dog track. If you must retire early get a second job at Publix, Home depot until age 62.
D
dammor
Guest
Munchie,
You are 20 years off in age and expierence with many you are trying to tell what the bottom line is. That's funny. As I said before, put down the pipe. You are in for a real surprise down the road. Good luck son.
You are 20 years off in age and expierence with many you are trying to tell what the bottom line is. That's funny. As I said before, put down the pipe. You are in for a real surprise down the road. Good luck son.
S
speeddemon
Guest
muncher.....so you think its right that the money UPS puts in for my retirement also pays another teamster who never worked for UPS? Your nuts. UPS dollars should be for UPS people. Period.
O
oldupsman
Guest
Mac,
I think your post on Friday is all pretty much right on. This is an issue that's not going to go away. I want to believe that Eskew is a decent guy and it really bothers him that some of his long term employees are getting screwed.
Now what I want to bring to light when you're talking about a national UPS pension plan that is run by the company is this, not all the plans are a mess.
Let me give you some numbers from my plan here in the Northeast. These numbers are all based on full time years.
Example one. We just had a guy retire this past June with 25 years of service at age 54. His monthly benefit is 2650.00 a month
Example two. Which I must confess is myself. I can retire with 30 years of service at age 54 with a monthly benefit of 3750.00 a month.
Example three. A full time driver who started in 1990 can retire with 25 years of service at any age with a monthly benefit of 6000.00 a month. These are not misprints
I have a chart given to us from our local which covers anyone who started from 1975 up to today. You simply go to the year you started as a full timer over to the number of years worked and it shows you your benefit.
If you remember back in 97 when UPS was pushing its plan that it always said that those locals which had higher benefits than the 3000.00 they would match. For those of you who think a company plan is the way to go, all I'm saying is don't sell yourselves short.
Another issue is the H&W. My health care is with UPS. I have nothing to do with Teamster health care. You know what I pay for my health insurance? Nothing folks, nada. And the UPS plan is better than the Teamster plan as far as I'm concerned. And you know what I pay to keep that plan after I retire? 50.00 a month. Most people pay about 700.00 to 800.00 a month for the plan I have with UPS.
Now alot of people don't know about this. When our new division manager came in from out of state he had no clue our health care was with UPS. Whenever I get a letter from Teamster H&W I just laugh and throw it in the trash.
My goal here is to make people aware that there are sucessful plans out there. And UPS has a very nice health care plan. I'm not advocating anything. I'm certainly not a die hard Teamster and would gladly listen to a UPS run pension plan. My biggest concern is what would happen to all those folks who are already retired from UPS. Back in 97 I called the toll free number they gave and asked that very question. And the response basically was that they're out of luck. And I disagree with that. Whay happened to we are all one big happy brown family? The UPS legacy? If UPS would cover those of the already retired I could see myself going with their pension. Hey I can be bought.
I think your post on Friday is all pretty much right on. This is an issue that's not going to go away. I want to believe that Eskew is a decent guy and it really bothers him that some of his long term employees are getting screwed.
Now what I want to bring to light when you're talking about a national UPS pension plan that is run by the company is this, not all the plans are a mess.
Let me give you some numbers from my plan here in the Northeast. These numbers are all based on full time years.
Example one. We just had a guy retire this past June with 25 years of service at age 54. His monthly benefit is 2650.00 a month
Example two. Which I must confess is myself. I can retire with 30 years of service at age 54 with a monthly benefit of 3750.00 a month.
Example three. A full time driver who started in 1990 can retire with 25 years of service at any age with a monthly benefit of 6000.00 a month. These are not misprints
I have a chart given to us from our local which covers anyone who started from 1975 up to today. You simply go to the year you started as a full timer over to the number of years worked and it shows you your benefit.
If you remember back in 97 when UPS was pushing its plan that it always said that those locals which had higher benefits than the 3000.00 they would match. For those of you who think a company plan is the way to go, all I'm saying is don't sell yourselves short.
Another issue is the H&W. My health care is with UPS. I have nothing to do with Teamster health care. You know what I pay for my health insurance? Nothing folks, nada. And the UPS plan is better than the Teamster plan as far as I'm concerned. And you know what I pay to keep that plan after I retire? 50.00 a month. Most people pay about 700.00 to 800.00 a month for the plan I have with UPS.
Now alot of people don't know about this. When our new division manager came in from out of state he had no clue our health care was with UPS. Whenever I get a letter from Teamster H&W I just laugh and throw it in the trash.
My goal here is to make people aware that there are sucessful plans out there. And UPS has a very nice health care plan. I'm not advocating anything. I'm certainly not a die hard Teamster and would gladly listen to a UPS run pension plan. My biggest concern is what would happen to all those folks who are already retired from UPS. Back in 97 I called the toll free number they gave and asked that very question. And the response basically was that they're out of luck. And I disagree with that. Whay happened to we are all one big happy brown family? The UPS legacy? If UPS would cover those of the already retired I could see myself going with their pension. Hey I can be bought.
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