Atheists

[Upsmule]

He not only obeyed them but yes, He is the fulfillment of a law that was nothing more than a mirror. A mirror that reflects our imperfection and our need of a redeemer. The perfect paid the price for the imperfect. But to suggest he "broke a commandment" by saying he discouraged honoring ones parents in Matthew 10 can hardly be honestly taken seriously when you (once again) see whats in the entire context of what He's saying in that chapter. Jews are obviously split still today about the coming of Messiah. Although coming to Christ brings peace to the heart, living the gospel also makes life more difficult in many respects since Jesus demands allegiance that takes priority over the natural ties of family life.

 

[wkmac]

A work not yet completed but a great film that tells the story of how a devout christian makes the journey from faith, to doubt, to a crisis of faith and then the last step to non belief. One of the best conversations I've seen where the process is described while respecting from where he had once come. Most atheists who came from a christian background roughly follows this process in various forms. Chris' description of loosing faith as a graceful degradation process really rang true with me as this was very much my own journey that began in the mid 80's but would take over a decade to complete.

From Theism to Atheism (Evid3nc3 - complete deconversion series) - YouTube

 

[Upsmule]

Well....we all have to take our own journey. Choose our own way. With all sincerity, take it or leave it, I pray you all....regardless of your faith or lack thereof enjoy the freedoms so many of us take for granted today. For me it's a great reminder of the chains that once held me, but no longer can. Freedom from the curse and the condemnation of the law apart from Christ

“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law.”(Galatians 3:13)

Freedom from the power of sin

“For sin shall not have dominion over you.” (Romans 6:14)

Freedom from condemnation

“There is now therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.” (Romans 8:1)

Freedom from legalism and efforts to make ourselves righteous

“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again the yoke of bondage.” (Galatians 5:1)

Freedom from the fear of man

“So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me. (Hebrews 13:6)

Freedom that is genuine, complete and everlasting!

“If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.” (John 8:36)

As an American I am more grateful than ever for freedoms better men than I have fought and bled for, and I’m likewise more fearful than ever when I consider what could be our future, and how easily those very freedoms we celebrate can be lost if not well guarded.

But there’s no vote, decision, or statute that can touch our freedoms in Christ, and for that I especially am rejoicing today. Hope you are too.

 

[wkmac]

Well....we all have to take our own journey. Choose our own way. With all sincerity, take it or leave it,

You know I'm glad I didn't follow your example and not watch the Ravi Zacharias video you posted and watched it a 2nd time out of fairness and openness in case he made a point I missed the first time. I guess the ideal of reciprocity is weighted a bit one sided in this discussion but then fear can work in strange ways.

And Ravi's message had no effect because Nietzche had no bearing either way as to way I arrived to the conclusion about the bible god that I did. But the message really wasn't meant for someone like me but was meant to the huddled masses of believers to keep them inside the corral.

Seems to have worked too!

 

[Upsmule]

Ravi is the man. With a very aptly named radio show called "Let My People Think."

Peace.....

 

[MrFedEx]

Well....we all have to take our own journey. Choose our own way. With all sincerity, take it or leave it, I pray you all....regardless of your faith or lack thereof enjoy the freedoms so many of us take for granted today. For me it's a great reminder of the chains that once held me, but no longer can. Freedom from the curse and the condemnation of the law apart from Christ

“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law.”(Galatians 3:13)

Freedom from the power of sin

“For sin shall not have dominion over you.” (Romans 6:14)

Freedom from condemnation

“There is now therefore no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.” (Romans 8:1)

Freedom from legalism and efforts to make ourselves righteous

“Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free, and be not entangled again the yoke of bondage.” (Galatians 5:1)

Freedom from the fear of man

“So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me. (Hebrews 13:6)

Freedom that is genuine, complete and everlasting!

“If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.” (John 8:36)

As an American I am more grateful than ever for freedoms better men than I have fought and bled for, and I’m likewise more fearful than ever when I consider what could be our future, and how easily those very freedoms we celebrate can be lost if not well guarded.

But there’s no vote, decision, or statute that can touch our freedoms in Christ, and for that I especially am rejoicing today. Hope you are too.

Where's Benny Hinn? This is starting to sound like "The Evangelist's Hour". Perhaps you could invite Rev Creflo Dollar in for a guest appearance. I'll bet he can quote scripture all day long too.
"I'm getting sick of being preached at". (MrFedEx 07:04)
"Put your Bible away...Please!!". (Overding It 4:20)
"Do you ever read anything else?" ( Bible Bangers 11:44)

 

[Upsmule]

Haha....Hinn Dollar as well as Copeland....all side show crooks in opinion. But it's not me they'll answer too.

 

[oldngray]

Haha....Hinn Dollar as well as Copeland....all side show crooks in opinion. But it's not me they'll answer too.

Ravi is someone I would trust. People like Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, etc. make all Christians look bad. And they will have to answer to God for their actions.

 

[Jones]

Dollar is the man.

 

[wkmac]

I love Benny Hinn's music videos

BENNY HINN: Let The Bodies Hit The Floor - YouTube

But how come this isn't true christianity? These people would surely think it is so why isn't it? Why is your version of christianity right and theirs is wrong? Why are Copeland and Dollar wrong and Zacharias is right? What would a christian use to determine which from which?

 

[oldngray]

I love Benny Hinn's music videos

BENNY HINN: Let The Bodies Hit The Floor - YouTube

But how come this isn't true christianity? These people would surely think it is so why isn't it? Why is your version of christianity right and theirs is wrong? Why are Copeland and Dollar wrong and Zacharias is right? What would a christian use to determine which from which?

Determine what is right from what the Bible says. There are gray areas that can be interpreted differently and I won't argue about even though I may disagree on some things but the fundamental doctrines are clearly stated in the Bible and if someone does not follow those then not a true Christian. People like Hinn confuse people who think he represents what Christianity is about and all he achieves is to mislead and confuse people while lining his own pockets.

 

[Upsmule]

I love Benny Hinn's music videos

BENNY HINN: Let The Bodies Hit The Floor - YouTube

But how come this isn't true christianity? These people would surely think it is so why isn't it? Why is your version of christianity right and theirs is wrong? Why are Copeland and Dollar wrong and Zacharias is right? What would a christian use to determine which from which?

This is why sound doctrine is necessary. This is why apologetics is necessary. A great read, even though it's author gets some good and some bad reviews from Christian and non christian alike....

Christianity in Crisis with Study Guide: Hank Hanegraaff: 9781565076969: Amazon.com: Books

 

[wkmac]

This is why sound doctrine is necessary. This is why apologetics is necessary. A great read, even though it's author gets some good and some bad reviews from Christian and non christian alike....

Christianity in Crisis with Study Guide: Hank Hanegraaff: 9781565076969: Amazon.com: Books

So you are admitting the all powerful, all knowing, all present god who according to you created the heavens and the earth and all that are in them as needing some earthbound, fallen, sin nature humans to in effect correct his failures?

apologetic (adj.)

1640s, "vindicatory," from French apologétique, from Latin apologeticus, from Greek apologetikos "defensible," from apologeisthai (see apology). Meaning "regretfully acknowledging failure" is from 1855. As a noun, "formal defense," from early 15c. Related: Apologetics (c.1753).

If god is a failure, if god must rely on fallen man to explain/defend his divine communication to us, then he is not perfect. A perfect god could effect perfect understanding in anyone at anytime. An apologist means the message is confusing and needs an intercessor to correct. Is god incapable of granting each of us perfect understanding of his divine will and truth?

If he's not granting perfect understanding, he's sowing confusion. Confusion is to bring about disorder. Confusion results from something being hidden or in other words, god is occulting the truth. This means god is not love nor is god even just.

If god in not perfect, is creating confusion and disorder, hiding (occulting) the real truth, how can he be the god of your bible who claims just the opposite?

 

[Jones]

He works in mysterious ways, doncha know.

 

[Upsmule]

So you are admitting the all powerful, all knowing, all present god who according to you created the heavens and the earth and all that are in them as needing some earthbound, fallen, sin nature humans to in effect correct his failures?



If god is a failure, if god must rely on fallen man to explain/defend his divine communication to us, then he is not perfect. A perfect god could effect perfect understanding in anyone at anytime. An apologist means the message is confusing and needs an intercessor to correct. Is god incapable of granting each of us perfect understanding of his divine will and truth?

If he's not granting perfect understanding, he's sowing confusion. Confusion is to bring about disorder. Confusion results from something being hidden or in other words, god is occulting the truth. This means god is not love nor is god even just.

If god in not perfect, is creating confusion and disorder, hiding (occulting) the real truth, how can he be the god of your bible who claims just the opposite?

No. Again....Romans 1:20 [SUP] "[/SUP]For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

I don't need a bible to know the truth. But the truth of the bible is important to keep kooks and crooks from deceiving many.

“preach the Word, be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths” (2 Timothy 4:2–4).​

 

[oldngray]

So you are admitting the all powerful, all knowing, all present god who according to you created the heavens and the earth and all that are in them as needing some earthbound, fallen, sin nature humans to in effect correct his failures?



If god is a failure, if god must rely on fallen man to explain/defend his divine communication to us, then he is not perfect. A perfect god could effect perfect understanding in anyone at anytime. An apologist means the message is confusing and needs an intercessor to correct. Is god incapable of granting each of us perfect understanding of his divine will and truth?

If he's not granting perfect understanding, he's sowing confusion. Confusion is to bring about disorder. Confusion results from something being hidden or in other words, god is occulting the truth. This means god is not love nor is god even just.

If god in not perfect, is creating confusion and disorder, hiding (occulting) the real truth, how can he be the god of your bible who claims just the opposite?

Nobody other than you claimed a failure by God. It is a failure by men who are imperfect. Even men such as you can make mistakes. The reason all mysteries are not revealed to us when when we want is they are explained in God's time and according to his plan. God answers all prayers and the answer may be yes, no, or not yet. To demand an answer when you want it would be ordering God around and His plan may be te reveal the answer later.

 

[Upsmule]

If he's not granting perfect understanding, he's sowing confusion.

​

When God created the heavens and the earth, he then created mankind in His image. With that came freewill. He didn't choose to create programmed robots that would worship Him. He created mankind with the freewill to choose to love and worship. Without freewill love is not love. God did not create evil, He created the potential for evil. We chose evil when we believed a lie, and chose our way instead of His. But He hasn't left us to ourselves thankfully. The fix is there for the accepting, or not.

 

[Jones]

Imagine that we are good friends. One day we are talking:

• Me: Wow, you will not believe this new book I've been reading!
• You: What's it about?
  Me: It is a manual for living a better life. It is also a guide to creating a better society for ourselves and our children. It has changed my life!
  You: That sounds like an important book. Who wrote it?
  Me: The author is supposed to be the smartest person in the universe.
  You: That's amazing -- if the author is the smartest person in the universe, the book must be absolutely brilliant. I can't wait to see it. Do you have a copy with you?
  Me: Absolutely! I carry it with me everywhere I go! Here, have a look for yourself...

You open the book to a random page, and you find this:

• Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am the Lord your God. Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you. All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.
  If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. The man who lies with his father's wife has uncovered his father's nakedness; both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.
  If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them.
  If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. [Leviticus, chapter 20]

You are not quite sure what to say. You look at me for a moment.

Click

 

[oldngray]

You open the book to a random page

Read more: http://www.browncafe.com/forum/f13/atheists-341806/index64.html#ixzz2YBea0ze1

There is your problem. Randomly looking up a quote. Without context it is meaningless.
​

 

[Upsmule]

You open the book to a random page

Read more: http://www.browncafe.com/forum/f13/atheists-341806/index64.html#ixzz2YBea0ze1

There is your problem. Randomly looking up a quote. Without context it is meaningless.
​

Exactly. It's like picking up a bible and looking up to the sky and saying...."God,if your real then speak to me with the first verse I touch with my finger." So you open the book plop down you finger and read Matthew 27:5..."Matthew 27:5 So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. "

Not a good idea.